The Battle this year for Gun Control in Virginia is OVER and some broader thoughts.....

[virginia mountainman]

Guess what side won a conclusive victory..

Not a single thing the Gun Control advocates wanted ever really got near to the floor for a vote.... Lots of things the Gun Rights supporters wanted, got passed out of committee... The defensive battle in VA, is over till next year, now to turn our focus to DC.

I keep hearing about the public demanding for Gun Control, but the effects in Richmond are the opposite , even the same Anti-Gun advocates are still sneaking around (they really do), their numbers actually seem to be DOWN this year. They are down from a dozen or so, to less than ten.... While their is usually several hundred gun rights advocates... The numbers of Pro gun rights folk has spiked up for this season... Somethings got them stirred up, and ready to take action.

I am afraid, their may be terrible consequences for the "big push" for gun control when the mid terms roll around, I like many others, sounded the warning, so don't blame us...Some loudmouths on TV, and in the MSM gave them their rallying cry, and they are heeding the "call to action"....But to the exact opposite effect to what was intended.

O well... i have long posted about the effects of "call for action on gun control" In the end, you may get New York, and a couple of other places to pass strict gun control, but the rest of the nation will move the OTHER way. Due in large part to what the gun owners see happening in the gun ban utopias. I posted this several months ago, and so far it seems to be holding true, yet again..

Calls for Gun Control tend to be answered with even LESS gun control, this tends to happen when a vocal minority starts screaming for legislation that a much larger and highly motivated group utterly hates, and the larger group is more than willing to open their wallets, and get in touch with their legislators and remind them of that fact.....So, call away....It helps your opposition win.

Problem is, it tends to be the REPUBLICANS that stand to gain from the calls, and we all pay the price.

What will be the effect, that because of the call for gun control, a few Democrats in red states loose in the midterms?? What would be the effect if the senate flips to Repuke hands?? Will it be worth it, even if no gun control legislation gets passed into law?

What is the price YOU are willing to pay, What is the price YOUR willing to have the rest of us pay? No one asked themselves that back in 1993 when Gun Control was a "hot issue" and it burned us BAD. The same people responsible for that, are at it again..Are you willing to have the Democrats become a regional party over this, only controlling parts of the Northeast, California, and Illinois? Was the failed fight for gun control worth helping elect Bushco, and keep Al Gore out of office?

Those are the HARD questions our leaders need to ask themselves. History is crystal clear on this.

And before some of you try to rip me to shreds, realize that I am agreement with you on virtually all other issues

[safeinOhio]

1. How many more 6 and 7 year olds

will it take, in your opinion?

[holdencaufield]

2. That might apply ...

... if anyone ever proposed a gun-control bill that had anything to do with protecting the lives of children (or adults) from people who are determined to do harm.

Added security, better mental health systems, a database of mentally unstable offenders, all would be along the lines of productive suggestions. Bans on cosmetic features, muzzle velocity, magazine capacity, and cyclical rates are security melodrama. At best they are legislative masturbation, at worst, they drain resources and political capital from ideas that actually MIGHT make a difference.

Until they do, ghoulish appeals over the graves of innocent children are just theatrics and, frankly, beneath you.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

3. And the first counterpoint out of the gate is... An emotional appeal (logical fallacy).

Quelle Surprise? No, not really.

[Pholus]

5. So the problem is "emotion" then.

Glad to see you got past that.

[virginia mountainman]

6. Emotion should not enter into legislation...

Bad things like the "patriot act" happen when it does.

[liberal N proud]

9. Gun Nuts are emotional alright

emotional about their guns. Lives of children - not so much.

[virginia mountainman]

18. Wow, got two in one.

Name calling: This techniques consists of attaching a negative label to a person or a thing. People engage in this type of behavior when they are trying to avoid supporting their own opinion with facts. Rather than explain what they believe in, they prefer to try to tear their opponent down

.

Either/or fallacy: This technique is also called "black-and-white thinking" because only two choices are given. You are either for something or against it; there is no middle ground or shades of gray. It is used to polarize issues, and negates all attempts to find a common ground.

[liberal N proud]

19. Simple, It is my opinion that people who are emotional about guns are gun nuts

That is why they call it an opinion.

[virginia mountainman]

24. Me too, I call the people that obsess over them "gun nuts" as well..

Feinstien comes to mind right off the bat..

[Eleanors38]

35. You know, I hear a lot of bad-mouthing about gun-owners, bu

Little actual sympathies toward murdered school children. Perhaps these trash-talkers think their hateful talk is equivalent to heart-felt pain about kids being killed; perhaps they think they have an unassailable moral position from which they can pick & choose enemies and say what they want.

Where are you in all this?

[virginia mountainman]

4. Your post has nothing to do with the subject at hand......

http://academic.cuesta.edu/acasupp/as/404.htm

Recognizing Propaganda Techniques and Errors of Faulty Logic

Appeal to Emotion:

An emotion-laden "sob" story is used as proof for a claim.
Example: A politician uses a sad story of a child being killed in a drive-by shooting to gain support for a year-round school measure.

The post was about the push for gun control in a state, and how those efforts have nation wide effects

[Pholus]

11. From your link you might want to consider how your OP fits in....

Recognizing Propaganda Techniques and Errors of Faulty Logic

Appeal to the People:


Someone attempts to justify a claim on the basis of popularity.

Example: Opponents of year-round school claim that students would hate it.

Application: The main argument of the OP is that the holy objects should be completely left alone, lest the "popular sentiment" end up being a cost.

[virginia mountainman]

13. Ahhh, results, I spoke of what I SAW, I also spoke of past elections..nt

[Pholus]

15. I saw several factors in that election...

Gunners
Extensive RW propoganda
Extensive RW media smears on Dem politicians
The RW embrace of the UN Black Helicopter people

Now I might agree with the premise that there is a substantial overlap in those populations, if that's the point you're actually making.

[safeinOhio]

12. You don't think the current push for tighter gun laws

is connected to current events? I'd think, every gun law passed has been a reaction to a current event of the time. From the gangs of the 20s and 30s to the Kennedys in the 60s to the attempt on Reagan. More of an appeal to history.

[Pholus]

17. And by the way, how does "ZOMG Thar taking my guns"

that I hear from every hardcore gunner I personally know fit in on the "emotion" scale because to me it is relatively unhinged given the actual reality on the ground.

That makes it an emotional response if there ever was one.

[virginia mountainman]

25. Well, to be honest..

They hear confiscation talk on the news.... So why would they not believe it?

You say they are not coming for them, but look at some of the legislation pushed, and certainly seems like it.

[JoeBlowToo]

27. How about some specifics about gun confiscation legislation?

I would like to be educated.

And what news are you listening to?

[virginia mountainman]

31. Alright...

Last Month..
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/21/nyregion/cuomo-says-he-will-outline-gun-measures-next-month.html?_r=3&

In the interview, Mr. Cuomo did not offer specifics about the measures he might propose, but, while discussing assault weapons, he said: “Confiscation could be an option. Mandatory sale to the state could be an option.

last week in New York.

From a few years back, Confiscation of rifles in California...

California changing it's mind and, deciding that SKS rifles are "assault weapons" and must be turned in, if not registered before a much earlier date.







Lets see, Peirs Morgan's countless calls for them to be confiscated... Diane Fienstien's call for MR and MRS America to turn them all in.. (shes at it again)

[JoeBlowToo]

33. Wow! What a scary list of gun confiscation legsilation!

"could be an option," "rejected proposals," "calls on gun owners to turn them in," British talk show host pontificating...

You are comical in your embrace of right wing scare tactics.

Watch out for those black helicopters!

[Eleanors38]

36. "RW scare tactics?" Tell that to the so-called liberals who said those things...

On TV, in the Senate, in legislatures. I didn't know Democrats and MSM did the RW's bidding. Maybe they gots a need for a little "embracing."

[JoeBlowToo]

38. Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you...

There is very little chance of confiscation and you know it. The entire NRA/Republican noise machine was amking these claims before Newtown and the consequent outcry for something, anything to be done in response. The right wing response, "Obama staged it to confiscate your guns!"

[Eleanors38]

39. Just because you are blind to sound argument doesn't mean everyone is feeling the elephant...

You would have to be blind, deaf, and illiterate to dismiss the drumbeat of highly placed figures, pols, and others who call for bans, and not see the effect that has on the general population. In fact, you would be dishonest to ignore such.

And the tired reference to "paranoia" is saran wrap veneer to cloak yourself from the political dynamic that talk sets in place.

Gun banners can't have their cake and eat it too.

[Pholus]

68. Yeah, that's for gunners themselves.

What other set of manufacturers are SPECIFICALLY exempt from product liability thanks to a huge team of well funded and well organized lobbyists? You know, those people who specifically MAKE Washington dysfunctional.

Wipe those cake crumbs off your face...

[GreenStormCloud]

70. Gun manufacturers can still be sued if they make a defective gun.

Even the major gun manufacturers are actually fairly small businesses with slim profit margins, and the minor ones, such as Bond Arms, are genuinely small businesses. None of them can afford continous legal fees, even if they win every case.

Gun banners tried to do and end run around the 2A. The idea was to sue the companies into bankruptcy. The gun companies would win their cases but the costs of defending against a flood of lawsuits from cities would be prohibitive. So cities with anti-gun government tried to sue the gun companies whenever a criminal used a gun in a crime.

In 2005 Congress put a stop to that foolishness with the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act. It protects the makers from the unlawful acts of people over which they have no control. It does not protect them from a suit if they make a defective product.

The real reason that you are upset is that you can't stop ordinary citizens from buying guns.

[Eleanors38]

72. Sorry, I'm not into sloppy eating or poor argument...

There is NO firearm company which is exempt from being sued when a firearm malfunctions, resulting in the injury/death of someone. And there have been suits and settlements to prove that. You just can't sue a manufacturer because someone got a hold of one of their products and committed a crime with that manufacturer's gun. You should, in between wolfing whatever you eat, look at the court rulings handed down when gun-banners tried that SPECIFIC tactic: Take your lawsuit and shove it.

[Pholus]

73. Funny, you make enough of poor arguments I kinda though that was your style.

And as far as shoving things you can....naw too easy.

[Eleanors38]

76. Bada-BOOM!

[Duckhunter935]

7. then do something about handguns

[iiibbb]

14. no no... it is the military style weapons that cause the most child deaths...

Who cares what words mean.... it's about the kids.

[spin]

42. Handguns are next on the list. ...

and will be targeted after a successful assault weapons ban passes. One step at a time.

[iiibbb]

10. Show me a gun control proposal that will save a 6 or 7 year old

and we can talk I guess.

Even as the NY law that was just ramrodded through, one of those arguing for the law admitted it wouldn't prevent a Sandy Hook, said "No" when asked directly, and then switched to "Maybe".

Show me a law that's a "Yes" short of banning them all.

[safeinOhio]

16. As now reported, all of those killed in Sandy Hook

were shot with military style rifle with high cap. mags. One was shot 11 times in the face. If 10, or better yet only 5 round mags were all that was available to the shooter, he would have had to carry 10 to 20 mags and in the time it took to reload, perhaps a few more might have escaped.
I'm sure the argument is that an expert can change mags in less than a second. If that is the argument, then there is no need for 30 or 100 round mags.

[iiibbb]

22. I'm fine with magazine limits - pistol grips and bayonet lugs are pointless

Mag limits don't bother me. I am not sure it will help, but at least it has to do with functionality. I think it should be 15 rounds myself, but whatever.

I had a horrible debate last night about bayonet lugs and someone told my I didn't care about children.

The children appeal is such a cop out. If it were about children we be banning all sorts of things that we don't.

[Dr_Scholl]

23. Like Virginia Tech?

Cho killed 32 and wounded 17, the worst mass shooting in US history. He fired 174 rounds. Authorities found 17 empty magazines at the crime scene. 174/17=10.23 rounds fired per reload.

[safeinOhio]

28. How many of those magazines held

10 or less rounds?

[Duckhunter935]

29. at least a few

Cho purchased two 10-round magazines for the Walther P22 pistol through eBay from Elk Ridge Shooting Supplies in Idaho.[84] Based on a preliminary computer forensics examination of Cho's eBay purchase records, investigators suspected that Cho may have purchased an additional 10-round magazine on March 23, 2007 from another eBay seller who sold gun accessories.[85]

[safeinOhio]

30. 2?

Those were for his 22 rimfire. One reports states he used a 30 round mag in his 9mm.

[Clames]

37. The is no such official report.

All the magazines used were 10rd types for the Walther and standard 12rd or 15rd magazines for the Glock. Fact is that he used nearly 20 magazines in total so obviously a restriction on magazine capacity would have been of little effect. He also waited the required 30 days between purchasing each gun.

[GreenStormCloud]

61. So someone set on murder will obey a law about mag limits?

Hi-cap mags for AR-15s can be printed on 3-D printers. The CAD file can be downloaded from the internet for free.

[safeinOhio]

67. Someone that buys his weapon a few days ahead,

like the guy that shot Gabby, will be stuck with only 10 rounds.


If your wet dream about 3-D printers comes about, it'll spell the end of the 2nd.

[iiibbb]

69. You missed the link... the 3-D print thing is here

They even printed an AR receiver, but it broke on the 8th shot. That was with the same dimensions as the metal receiver, they plan to reinforce the failure location.

[iiibbb]

81. 3D lower

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/579913_3D_printed_lower___yes__it_works_.html

[Straw Man]

66. A second.

I'm sure the argument is that an expert can change mags in less than a second. If that is the argument, then there is no need for 30 or 100 round mags.

In a self-defense situation, a second is a long time. In an exchange of gunfire, one second without a loaded weapon could be the difference between living or dying.

When a madman is slaughtering a roomful of defenseless children, that extra second to change magazines is inconsequential. Nobody will tackle the shooter or escape in that one second.

Advantage spree killer.

[iiibbb]

8. The stakes are higher too... Republicans these days are worse crazy

So while that may buffer this effort... the consequences of a fuckup are quite a bit higher.

Hopefully the buget shit will get straightened out before this fight affects that one (whichever way it goes). I'd like to see Obama shore up a few of the older Democratic judges before the pendulum might swing.

[jimmy the one]

20. Phantoms after guns

vamtnman: I keep hearing about the public demanding for Gun Control .. even the same Anti-Gun advocates are still sneaking around (they really do),

Anti gun advocates (aka guncontrol advocates) 'sneak round' - 'they really do'? You mean crouched over low to the ground? hiding behind sofas & curtains?
Sneak: act in a stealthy furtive manner; a thief who does not break his way in; slink;

mtn man: O well... i have long posted about the effects of "call for action on gun control" In the end, you may get New York, and a couple of other places to pass strict gun control, but the rest of the nation will move the OTHER way. Due in large part to what the gun owners see happening in the gun ban utopias. I posted this several months ago, and so far it seems to be holding true, yet again..

You and Mr DemDealer (another DU poster) should team up & work together. You have the same message, your lifes work it seems. Guard the national civilian gunstock - from phantom boogeymen.

mtn man: Calls for Gun Control tend to be answered with even LESS gun control, this tends to happen when a vocal minority starts screaming for legislation that a much larger and highly motivated group utterly hates, .....So, call away....It helps your opposition win.
Problem is, it tends to be the REPUBLICANS that stand to gain from the calls, and we all pay the price.
What will be the effect, that because of the call for gun control, a few Democrats in red states loose in the midterms?? What would be the effect if the senate flips to Repuke hands?? Will it be worth it, even if no gun control legislation gets passed into law?
What is the price YOU are willing to pay, What is the price YOUR willing to have the rest of us pay? No one asked themselves that back in 1993 when Gun Control was a "hot issue" and it burned us BAD.

Wow, another nathan hale. You should join the republican party mtn man; how many of these type threads, almost identical in nature with untruths, half truths, & duplicity abounding, do you plan on posting this year?
I'm not trusting or believing much of anything you say anymore, mtn man.

mtn man: And before some of you try to rip me to shreds, realize that I am agreement with you on virtually all other issues

virtual, as well as other defs, CAN mean: adverb: in essence or effect but not in fact
virtually: adverb: (of actions or states) slightly short of or not quite accomplished; `near' is sometimes used informally for `nearly' and `most' is sometimes used informally for `almost'

[safeinOhio]

21. I don't think he reads the

latest polls. Even NRA members favor some added restrictions on mag cap. and background checks.

[jimmy the one]

26. Gunnut in Azerbaijan

virginia mountainman 18. Wow, got two in one. Name calling {to wit, GUNNUT} : This techniques consists of attaching a negative label to a person or a thing. People engage in this type of behavior when they are trying to avoid supporting their own opinion with facts. Rather than explain what they believe in, they prefer to try to tear their opponent down..

You mean like when you, va mtn man, wrote this in your OP?:

.. if the senate flips to Repuke hands..
.. even the same Anti-Gun advocates are still sneaking around (they really do),

You sorta get by with 'anti gun advocates' since it's descriptive while not personal, but 'sneaking'?

And how about these pro gunners? are they also 'trying to avoid supporting their own opinions with facts'?

um, gunnuts, more or less: “I love my guns, love having the right to own them; hate the gunnut stupidity that makes it hard to argue otherwise.” ZUMBO
As a dyed in the wool gunnut of course my choices have to fall in the "other" catagory.”

mtn man: Either/or fallacy: This technique is also called "black-and-white thinking" because only two choices are given. You are either for something or against it; there is no middle ground or shades of gray. It is used to polarize issues, and negates all attempts to find a common ground

what lib'n'proud wrote: Gun Nuts are emotional alright emotional about their guns. Lives of children - not so much.

Since lib'n'proud included '.. not so much', it's clear this was a 'shade of gray', and not an absolute 'either or' argument.
Mtn man succumbs to another argument 'hoisted on his own petard'.

--------------------------------------
2ndA Mecca: Günnüt (also, Gyunnyut and Gyunut-Dzhafarlu) is a village in the Sharur Rayon of the Nakhchivan Autonomous Republic, Azerbaijan. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunnut

[Riftaxe]

32. Many of us have seen this trend before

back in '94. When you boil away all of the rhetoric, it comes down to trying to divest the party from the "working" class, or blue collar democrats if that is more palatable to you.

While the belief that the 50 major metropolitan areas should control the entire country might have a few merits, it tends to really tick off those not in those particular counties, and the need to use baseless rhetoric just inflames.

Since no rational person can argue that "assault" weapons are a major problem in homicides in this country, the need to go over the top with nonsensical rhetoric is required (ie, the same old propaganda techniques used by race hate groups, and other people of similar mindsets) is also inflammatory.

[ileus]

34. Well va may be safe for another year...

Let's hope America follows our lead.

[jpak]

40. Thank you Virginia Republic Douchebags

yup

[DanTex]

41. Impossible! You mean the same Republicans legislators who, on MLK day,

took advantage of the fact that Democrat and civil rights leader Henry Marsh was away attending the inauguration in order to push through a redistricting bill that would weaken the influence of Democrats and minorities, and then proceeded to adjourn in memory of confederate general Stonewall Jackson?
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2013/01/republicans-dirty-trick-inauguration.php

Who could possibly have imagined that these confederate flag waving right-wingers would also be pro-gun extremists?

[bubbayugga]

43. it will all be worth it in the end because we will win and you will be disarmed.

[friendly_iconoclast]

44. Will this be before or after we are rid of illegal drugs?

[Berserker]

45. OH NO

[virginia mountainman]

46. Me?! A few Problems with that..

1. Who, are you going to get to do it?

2. I "ran into hard times" and sold most of them off on at a time to people in a gun show parking lot...

3. I lost the rest in a tragic boating accident..

4. Why yes, I do have a "some" guns Hands over a couple $50 junk guns to the investigator, so he has his "score" and can leave happy, knowing he just took some evil guns off the street. While being so clueless as to why I have buckets of lead beside the garage door. I like to fish, see "tragic boating accident" above...

Just for clarification, no laws where broken.... I sold them last year, before any bans took place ..... "gun grabber bureaucrat" -->

Now it is someone who is on the ATF payroll to figure out if I am telling the truth or not....Not to mention the most of the rest of the community and my neighbors saying pretty much the same thing, because we all agree so I have little real concern.

[bubbayugga]

47. Then your guns will sit in a PVC tube, covered in cosmoline, buried in the ground

where they won't ever be a threat to anyone. I heard you couldn't find PVC pipe in Australia in the days before their confiscation so you better stock up now. Best bury it far from your own property too because as soon as you tell us that you "lost all your guns in a boating accident", we're searching your property with metal detectors and ground penetrating radar. When we find your guns, you're going to prison and carrying the stigma of being a felon around with you for the rest of your life when you finally get out.

[gejohnston]

48. I see you have a low regard for the 4A as well.

is there any of the BoR you like?

[bubbayugga]

49. criminals don't have rights.

[gejohnston]

50. How do you feel about grow lights and

water pipes? Or, are you being hypocritical?

[bubbayugga]

51. Grow lights and water pipes don't kill children.

Try a little harder G.

[gejohnston]

52. neither do most guns

and the farmers and their distribution networks do kill each other, and children do get hit in the crossfire of business disputes. See NOLA and Chicago. The drug trade has more sociopaths than the shooting sports community.

[bubbayugga]

56. tell that to the thousands of people that are killed with guns every year in America.

[gejohnston]

58. I just did

that is most of the murders in the US.

[friendly_iconoclast]

53. Neither do most guns- try a little harder, bubba...

[bubbayugga]

55. tell that to the thousands of people that are killed with guns every year in America.

[friendly_iconoclast]

60. Like gej, I just did...

[friendly_iconoclast]

54. EVERYBODY has rights (or should, anyway)

[bubbayugga]

57. Criminals perpetrating the crime of failing to comply with a gun law have given up their rights

[friendly_iconoclast]

59. I note you skipped the whole 'due process' bit before deeming people "criminals"

What a pile of statist bullshit; I take it you think Miranda v. Arizona got it wrong, too?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miranda_v._Arizona

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernesto_Miranda

Ernesto Miranda was undoubtedly a scumbag- but as I've said before, there is no 'niceness clause' in the Constitution...

[bubbayugga]

62. If we're knocking on your door, you've already had your due process- guaranteed.

play time is over at that point and your premises are going to be searched so you better have them hidden VERY well or you will become a felon and you will go to jail and you will lose your civil rights.

[friendly_iconoclast]

63. What "we"? You and the rest of the 403rd ITG Battalion?

Feh. You and 99% of the "seize them now" crowd will take the Cheney/Romney option:

Declare the War On Guns to be a fine thing for other people to fight for you.

[bubbayugga]

64. yeah, don't get me wrong. I won't personally be knocking on your door.

I'll leave that to the police. I'll be watching it all on CNN with an ice cold beer in my hand.

[friendly_iconoclast]

65. I'm truly amazed; you're even *more* hypocritical than Romney.

Even that entitled piece of shit at least picketed carrying a sign:

[cherokeeprogressive]

71. What you mean, "We", Kimosabe?

"When we find your guns..."

Insanely funny.

[bubbayugga]

74. You know, "we" the police and the military just like in Australia.

I can't wait. It's going to be so awesome watching you gun nuts trying to make sense of your life after your toys have been outlawed. I'm sure plenty of you will go down like Crocodile Dundee too. Now that will be insanely funny.

[gejohnston]

75. hate to break it to you but

there was no door to door in Australia, and the compliance rate is estimated about 20 percent, about the same as Canada and Germany.

[bubbayugga]

77. They went to your door once they established non-compliance with the buy back.

[gejohnston]

79. they still estimate a high number

there. That's not counting the ones smuggled or manufactured by criminal gangs.

[cherokeeprogressive]

78. Keep telling yourself that.

Not. Ever. Happening.

Especially with fools like Diane Feinstein shooting from the lip with statements like “Military-style assault weapons have but one purpose, and in my view that’s a military purpose, to hold at the hip, possibly, to spray fire to be able to kill large numbers.” and making fools of the lot of you.

[spin]

80. Don't expect me to lose any sleep because of fear of a gun ban and confiscation. ...

What I will lose sleep over is the fact the Republicans will gain more seats in the House and in the Senate at the midterms because of this foolish push for a "ban."

If those who support stronger gun control would simply ban the word "ban" we might actually have a far better chance of improving our gun laws. I would suggest using the words "better regulate."

President Obama has a vision for this nation that he will endanger if he pushes too hard for an assault weapons ban and loses. I could be wrong but I feel Obama is a very shrewd politician and he will initially use the treat of a ban to get some actual changes in our laws that will be effective. I would personally like to see the "gun show loophole" eliminated and many other gun owners agree.

In the end I predict that our nation will see some positive changes to our gun laws that will help reduce gun violence to a degree. Gun control advocates will be very disappointed as will some right wing gun owners. Most Americans will view the final solution as improvement.

Then we can move on to other important issues such as finally getting a rational immigration policy.