I Went To A Gun Show Today. (Saturday, 1/26/2013)

[GreenStormCloud]

The show opened at 9AM. I arrived at 10:20 AM. The place was well marked with signs as soon as I exited from I-35E and a huge sign on the Lewisville Event Center. The parking lot was full so I immediately went to the furtherist row where I found one of the few spots remaining.

The line stretched for about 100 feet, but was moving rapidly. Seconds after I stepped in line there were a dozen people behind me. When I reached the front of the line in about two minutes enough people had joined that it was just as long. Eight dollars and an “SAT” (Saturday) stamp on my hand and I was in, and barely able to move around. I have never seen a gun show as crowded as this. We were stacked in like bullets in a box.

I go to a gun show about once a year or so, mostly just see what is new and to window shop. So I pretty well know what to expect. This time I got a few surprises.

There is always an NRA table and the person there, trying to recruit new members, usually isn't real busy and has time to chat. Not this time. She was very busy signing up people. There was actually a line of people, waiting to be signed up. I could see that her receipt book had a bunch of used pages, so she had been busy the previous hour. When I passed by again, about an hour and a half later, people were still lining up to join the NRA. I got a chance to speak to her for a few seconds. She said that in fourteen years of recruiting at gun shows this was the busiest she had ever been.

Missing were the stacks and stacks of AR & AK type rifles. Usually there will be some tables with dozens of boxes of them, stacked one on the other. This time there were scatterings of them. I talked to a few dealers and they all said that they had sold almost out and new stock was back ordered.

One dealer, mostly pistols, had five sales stations at his booth and each clerk was busy helping someone fill out the 4473 and doing the NICS check, or checking their Concealed Handgun License card. ( In Texas if you have a CHL, you can bypass the NICS.) Usually, a big booth like that will only have two or three sales clerks, with one or two being busy.

Pistol displays were different. Usually there is a wide variety of handguns available. This time the lower priced handguns were gone. I didn't see a single Hi-point in the entire show. No Smith & Wessons, no Charter Arms, no Bersa, - sold out. Lots of SIG-Sauer, GLOCK, Ruger, some Beretta, some Kel-Tec, a scattering of other brands. Every dealer said they had been placed on back order for everything.

I also saw something new in the way of guns. You can check it out at www.zipfactory.com

I bought a book, “Islands of the Damned: A Marine at War in the Pacific” by R. V. Burgin. He was written about in the book, “With the Old Breed” and he was portrayed by Martin McCann in the HBO mini-series. Mr. Burgin, now 90 years old was there, signing books. He wasn’t busy so I was able to talk with him a few minutes. He is still of sound mind and his penmanship is strong and steady.

I left after about two hours, the entrance line was still long, although not quite as long as before.

The gun buying frenzy that we have heard about was certainly real at that gun show, and NRA recruiting was having a very successful day.

[TexasTowelie]

1. Same thing happened in Austin today.

The lines to get in were long according to the Austin newspaper.

[Eleanors38]

19. "No one goes there anymore, it's too crowded." Yogi B.

Thought about going to the Austin one, glad I didn't.

[elleng]

2. NRA has done it's job,

assuring sales of arms.

[GreenStormCloud]

3. And its ranks are rapidly swelling. N/T

[DonP]

5. I credit Diane Feinstein for the increased sales

She's got a great track record of selling more AR15's than anyone else. Been doing it since 1994.

Let's hope the 1994 analogy ends there.

[Pullo]

10. +1

[iiibbb]

11. I hate the idea of current Republicans gaining influence

We will see

[Eleanors38]

20. Front Page headline Austin Statesman: "Democrats Seek Ban on Assault Weapons"

Lovely. Even "lovelier" is DiFi's countenance before all her guns. So much for paranoia.

[spin]

13. I would suggest that in reality the gun control advocates have shot themselves in the foot ...

once again.

The real tragedy in this debate is that millions of citizens are rushing out to buy firearms and ammo that they have no real use for. Many of these firearms will not be stored properly and will be stolen by criminals. Some will be misused by their owners who would have never bought them without the push for a ban.

While I do not support truly draconian gun laws such as bans or confiscations on semi-auto firearms, I also do not believe that everybody should own firearms.

When I grew up the in 1950s and 1960s gun ownership was largely limited to hunters, target shooters, collectors and of course criminals. I lived in a rural area and while most of my neighbors owned a shotgun and .22 caliber rifles were common, only a few people owned a pistol or a revolver and they were usually involved in law enforcement. There was no threat of gun confiscations or bans so no one feared the government was ever going to repeal the 2nd Amendment.

Unfortunately JFK, RFK and Dr. King were assassinated by "lone killers which may or may not be true. The gun control movement sprung up. Consequently Americans began to fear gun confiscation and the result was that many people decided they actually needed a firearm. Most bought a firearm and rarely used it if ever.

The crime rate in our nation increase significantly in the 70s, 80s and 90s. This was largely the result of the growing illegal drug use in our nation. Our elected politicians decided to launch a War on Drugs and it failed as badly as Prohibition from 1920 to 1933 in the United States. Unfortunately our elected leaders learn little from history so we continue to fight this failed war and the result is often similar to today's murder rate in Chicago which is largely caused by competing drugs gangs fighting over turf.

The gun control movement had totally failed in its efforts to ban handguns in our nation so they decided to focus on a incremental approach to banning all firearm ownership by honest citizens. They picked "assault weapons" as their target as few people owned such weapons and successfully passed the first Assault Weapons Ban.

New laws often have unintended consequences. Prior to the passage of the Assault Weapons Ban few gun owners owned such firearms and seen little use for them. Most felt the AR-15 was unreliable, inaccurate and underpowered.

Unfortunately when you ban sometime people become curious and wish to find out what all the fuss is about. Since the first Assault Weapons Ban never really banned semi-auto rifles that were similar in appearance to true military weapons but simply banned some cosmetic features of such weapons, these firearms were readily available during the ban. Hi-cap magazines were also available if they had been manufactured before a certain cut off date but merely were expensive.

At first only a few regular shooters that I knew decided to buy an assault style rifle but they reported that they actually were quite accurate and rarely jammed. Since they found them enjoyable to shoot more gun owners decided to buy one. Suddenly there was a real market for these weapons and since they are easily to modify many companies began to manufacture parts and accessories for them. Now AR-15 style rifles are the most popular selling rifles in our nation and they are used for hunting as they can be easily adapted to fire more powerful rounds. (No you don't use a 100 round magazine to hunt deer but you can use an AR style rifle with a five round magazine in many states. You can also use an .223 AR-15 with a 20 or 30 round magazine to hunt feral hog in many states.)

So the Assault Weapons Ban made the AR-15 popular. It also led to the development of small compact pistols with a magazine capacity of 10 rounds or less that were designed primarily for concealed carry. These small, light and compact firearms have proved very popular with those who legally carry concealed as carrying a large pistol such as a 9mm Glock with a 15 round magazine is a pain in the ass and even more so when the law limits the magazine size that you get with the weapon to only 10 rounds.

Therefore it is my opinion that while the NRA has to bear some responsibility for the increased sale of firearms in our nation if you really want to know who bears the prime responsibility just go the the mirror in your bathroom and look at your image. The leadership of the gun control movement and people such as you have to accept that your efforts have largely backfired.

I honestly believe that we can make some real improvements to our gun laws if only the gun control advocates can stop talking about bans and instead talk about better regulations. The reality is that the gun control movement has supported banning guns and that has scared the hell out of those who wish to ever own a firearm for hunting, target shooting or self defense. The NRA has grown to a much more powerful lobby because of this fear and has promoted it but if the Brady Campaign which was originally named Handgun Control, Inc. had not pushed for gun bans the NRA would have never had that opportunity.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

24. +1... thanks for posting.

[DonP]

4. Just as crowded at the Princeton Illinois Gun show today

I went hoping to find some small pistol primers for some .380 auto and 38 special I want to reload for target work. If I was really lucky, maybe some pulled 150 grain BTSP for some 30-06. One dealer always has, or should I say "had", a few bags of cheap pulled FMJ military bullets in 147 or 150 grain. About all they had left were a few of the small 100 packs of Large Rifle primers and nobody had any idea when they would get restocked.

They said the small rifle primers went first (.223/5.56) and all of the .224 bullet choices from 40 grain to 75 and up. Then all of the 9mm, 45 ACP and 40 S&W bullets went. The only AR's I saw, 3 of them at the whole show - 3 buildings full, were .22LR versions.

But it had the same crowded parking lot and aisles you describe. Still only $5 to get in. Both the NRA and Illinois State Rifle Assn. tables were crowded too.

Surprisingly, everyone was in a pretty upbeat mood.

I did stop at a good sized local gun store on the way home to check for primers. They now check your Illinois FOID card before they even let you into the store. The guy said they have had a lot of people coming in and getting all pissed off when they find out can't touch the guns or ammo, let alone buy one. So rather than tie up a clerk with someone that can't really buy anything they catch them at the door, ask to see their current FOID card, if they don't have one, explain the law, and give them the Illinois State Police FOID application form. (When they get home they'll find out it takes 6 to 8 weeks or more for processing and get pissed off all over again.)

Maybe that's a good thing, with people actually finding out first hand that it's not quite as easy as some people think it is to buy a gun.

[virginia mountainman]

6. Q: What do you call 1,000 people at a gun show??

A: About 1 hour...

Some in our party have once again grabbed a sleeping tigers tail, ....the tiger is awake now...

[DonP]

8. Q: What do you call 1,000 people at a gun show?? A: Voters

Last edited Sat Jan 26, 2013, 09:55 PM - Edit history (1)

[Clames]

7. Ammo is starting to become more available now.

Local place had boxes of Hornady .223 stacked up though no .22lr yet. That ZiP looks like a fun plinker.

[Lurks Often]

9. You're either braver or crazier then I am

I'm not going near a gun show until things calm down. Everything you said matches what I have been hearing around the country.

In a rare case of thinking ahead, I started buying a bit more then usual starting last June, figuring the election would drive prices up and supplies down again. That and a bit of careful and lucky internet shopping I was able to get a bit more without getting gouged.

[dizbukhapeter]

12. Been waiting forever for a CZ75

I haven't seen a CZ75 for sale for a couple months now. I heard their factory was busy filling military orders couple with the panic and CZ's are as rare as hen's teeth now. Also Beretta's are selling for a hundred bucks more than they used to.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

14. People willing to spend hours at a picked-clean gunshow are surely motivated enough to vote. nt

[ileus]

15. I just traded my M&P 9c and some boot for a dirt bike

I hope the dust settles here in a few months where I can find a good replacement for it. I'll probably turn to facebook for a replacement I've noticed lot's of OK deals on my groups popping up every day for pistols. A guy posted a P220 for trade for an AK/AR or SKS the other day, I was too late for that trade. Another guy jumped on the SKS deal of the day.

I doubt we'll hit any funshows this year considering how crazy it's going to be with the constant threat of control.

When my wife and I head out to gun shows its for different reasons. She's always looking for antique jewelry and it seems that a funshow is the place to be for that.

[jimmy the one]

16. Fantastic! No shootings at the gunshows!

Hey, that's great news, Cloud went to a texas gunshow & don to an illinois gunshow, and nobody was shot! Fanfgtastic!
Is it open again today tho, sunday? let's hold our breaths, & pray.

Be honest tho, were there any misfires? anywhere reported? you know we generally only hear about those causing damage either personal or material, inconsequential misfires likely occur but are hushed up or go unnoticed.

spin: The crime rate in our nation increase significantly in the 70s, 80s and 90s. This was largely the result of the growing illegal drug use in our nation.

Sure drugs played a part, later, but by the 70s the national gunstock had doubled, from 75 millions in the mid 60's to 150 millions by early 70's, while violent crime increased dramatically.
In fact, one factoid has it that between the mid 60s & early 70's both the national gunstock had doubled as well as the rate of guncrime. Imagine that. All because of drugs, eh?

Our elected politicians decided to launch a War on Drugs and it failed as badly as Prohibition from 1920 to 1933 in the United States.

Yeah, they shoulda just done nothin', just like they should just do nuttin about guns, eh?

.. today's murder rate in Chicago which is largely caused by competing drugs gangs fighting over turf.

B B B But chicago's handgun ban was overturned over 2 years ago, going on 3 years, handguns are legal to own in chicago, & were supposed to protect chicago from murder, wha happen? there's been an increase of thousands of guns & of foids by thousands of foids - should we ban foids?
.. and note that violent crime in chicago is down from previous years, go figure, so shouldn't you rather be cherry picking THAT statistic to show the efficacy of more guns? Ha, you could even use 'more guns less crime' platitude & get away with it in chicago! since murder is only a percent of it!

The gun control movement had totally failed in its efforts to ban handguns in our nation

Is it a failure when something doesn't happen that you didn't seriously attempt to begin with?
You have FAILED, spin, in your attempts to make me purchase an AR15.

so they decided to focus on a incremental approach to banning all firearm ownership by honest citizens. They picked "assault weapons" as their target as few people owned such weapons and successfully passed the first Assault Weapons Ban.

.. well there's a non sequitur if I ever heard one - ban all firearm ownership - and to do that - they picked assault weapons & passed the 1994 assault weapon ban - as their first target. Which of course led to the TOTAL BAN ON FIREARMS which exists today.

You all, can live in your armed fantasy dreamworld accd'g to the 2nd Amendment Mythology, but what some gullible saps buy into by listening to the gun lobby & wayne's world weltanschauung, has so little to do with reality, is the reason some of us think it's you who are the bigger problem, and not the solution.

[GreenStormCloud]

17. You missed the points.

I will state them clearly for you:

The place was more crowded than ever.

Lots of guns were being sold.

People were standing in line to join the NRA.

[iiibbb]

18. Jimmy like to pretend you say something before he argues with you...

... it lets him write more.

When words don't matter you can kind-of say anything you want. After reading Jimmy's post I definitely think that squirrels should not be armed with bazookas. They weren't in colonial times.

[DonP]

21. He also keeps pretending that there are legal guns all over Chicago and the crime rate is dropping

He imagines that the McDonald case ushered in a tidal wave of legal guns in Chicago. I guess he missed the two years of subsequent court cases as Chicago continued a defacto ban, that even Rahm finally acknowledged last year after his third big ass check to the SAF and NRA lawyers.

As for the crime rate in Chicago dropping, 508 murders last year was a major increase. We had 6 more killed last night alone. Last year we had the equivalent of a Sandy Hook death rate among school children every 2 months. But they weren't mostly little white kids from a photogenic neighborhood, so nobody made much of it.

But he does seem to love the sound of his own voice, doesn't he?

[Eleanors38]

22. Do you support drug prohibition as well?

[jimmy the one]

23. chicago crime rate indeed down 2012

don: He also keeps pretending that there are legal guns all over Chicago and the crime rate is dropping

December 17, 2012 (CHICAGO) -- Chicago's overall crime rate is down since 2011, accdg to a memo to Mayor Rahm from police Supt. McCarthy. With less than a month left in 2012, overall crimes are down almost 8.5% since 2011. That is the biggest reduction in the past 20 years. Burglaries, according to the memo, are down 15% so far this year, and car thefts are down 13%. However, the number of murders this year is more than last year.

OK, your turn, post a link that the crime rate in chicago didn't drop in 2012.
(Betcha gun lobby propaganda takes credit for the crime decrease & blames the murder increase on 'remaining gun control' efforts)

don: He imagines that the McDonald case ushered in a tidal wave of legal guns in Chicago. I guess he missed the two years of subsequent court cases as Chicago continued a defacto ban, that even Rahm finally acknowledged last year after his third big ass check to the SAF and NRA lawyers.

It's rather you believe your half true baloney.
One year ago: 01/26/12 CHICAGO (CBS) – Significantly more Chicagoans are arming themselves with guns. Gun Owner ID Cards Soar In Chicago CBS Chicago over the past two years, the city has seen a 16% spike in the number of people holding state Firearm Owner’s Identification Cards.
03/18/2012 Meanwhile, the number of registered firearms in Chicago has steadily increased to 15,757 since the city passed an ordinance two years ago allowing residents to have handguns at home. Since the law went in effect, Chicago Police Dept has issued 4,307 firearm permits. http://www.standard.net/stories/2012/03/18/gun-rights-lawsuits-target-chicago

As for the crime rate in Chicago dropping, 508 murders last year was a major increase.

This is blatantly incorrect; an increase of 100 murders would not in itself increase chicago's violent crime rate significantly.

Explain pls, why PRO GUN memphis has a higher total crime risk than chicago, & is at parity with chicagos murder rate.:
2010 Crime Rate Memphis,TN ..... Chicago,IL
Total Crime Risk.. 364.............. 238
Murder Risk .......361.............. 356
Rape Risk..........342.............. 260
Robbery Risk...... 522.............. 465
Assault Risk...... 286.............. 289
Burglary Risk..... 366.............. 122
Larceny Risk...... 205.............. 133
MotVeh TheftRisk.. 374.............. 212
Ignoring the stink in your own backyards again, gun lobby apologists?

Kennesaw Ga makes all households have a gun, morton grove used to ban handguns (these stats are close to what they've been for past 15 yrs or so):
2010--CrimeRateIndex -Kennesaw - US - MortonGrove
Total Crime Risk .............. 56 ... 100 ..... 35
Murder Risk.................... 27 ... 100 ..... 15
Rape Risk........................ 46 ... 100 ..... 42
Robbery Risk................... 38 ... 100 ..... 15
Assault Risk................... 16 ... 100 ..... 47
Burglary Risk.................. 54 ... 100 ..... 41
Larceny Risk.................... 64 ... 100 ..... 83
Auto Theft Risk................ 67 ... 100 ..... 33
http://sync.democraticunderground.com/1172100992#post39