Gun Control & RKBA
Related: About this forumMoms have had enough; call for gun regulations
One Million Moms for Gun Control was founded by a Zionsville mother, Shannon Watts, the day after the Newtown massacre. In a few weeks, our ranks swelled to 70,000 members, with the potential to reach 80 million mothers nationwide. We have traditionally remained quiet in the discussion regarding gun control, but no longer. We are changed. We are strong. We are speaking out.
Every day in the United States, 270 people are shot, including 47 children. Of the 270, 87 die. Every year almost 100,000 people and 20,000 children in America are shot; 31,000 die from their wounds, including 3,000 children. We have had enough. The time has come for change.
A recent poll estimated that more than 90 percent of Americans, including gun owners, overwhelmingly support universal background checks. The National Rifle Association opposes this because, as Wayne LaPierre, its spokesman, says, criminals wont submit to a background check. Since when was the fact that criminals break laws a reason for not having any? This logic is flawed. The fact is that laws reduce death, period.
http://www.indystar.com/article/20130224/OPINION/302240011/Moms-had-enough-call-gun-regulations
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
holdencaufield
(2,927 posts)... bought me my first Daisy BB Gun.
DrDan
(20,411 posts)did not allow us to have daisy bb-guns
she was a wise woman - and would have proudly joined and supported this effort
just contributed to the "Dad's Chapter" of the org in her honor
Clames
(2,038 posts)...is taking a handgun basic safety course next month.
oneshooter
(8,614 posts)She enjoyed going to the range and was a fine shot with a AR-15. She enjoyed going hunting and fishing. Her and Dad gave me my first "real" rifle when I was 10. I still have that rifle and used it to teach all three of my sons, and one granddaughter.
Response to SecularMotion (Original post)
Post removed
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)Has several weapons
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,482 posts)...and totaled firearm deaths for accidents, suicides and assaults for 2008. The total is 364 for those under 15 years of age.
Where is that 3,000 number coming from?
DrDan
(20,411 posts)or was that your criteria . . . for whatever purpose
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)most places it is defined as under 12 with adolescent making up the difference.
DrDan
(20,411 posts)of course, that would make your statistics look bad . . . wouldn't it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_the_Rights_of_the_Child
there is not a single definition of a "child", and we both know that.
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)the Brady Campaign sometimes puts the age at 24.
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,482 posts)...to actually inform. My youngest "child" is 24. My mother's youngest "child" is over 50.
An article whose intent was to actually be informative would use deterministic language.
Quoting these tired pieces does more to impune the source than I would feel the need to. Because pro-control resorts to this type of misinformation campaign really undermines any trust that might be given it.
It's one of the many impediments to progress on the issue.
DrDan
(20,411 posts)age 15, 18 or 20. Too many "children" are dying due to the ubiquity of guns.
Does it really matter if there are 3,000, 2,000 or 700? This distraction is nothing but an NRA tactic to deflect the argument that too many are dying.
Would you really argue otherwise - that there are not too many?
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,482 posts)Characterizing my highlighting a lie as an NRA tactic is just another lie. The NRA didn't help me. I'm not a member; I don't read their data or site. The only thing I've seen from the NRA in years was a recording of Wayne's remarks which were posted here by a pro-control person.
Evil will flourish when the good fail to recognize the truth. A lie is a lie and helps no one's cause.
DrDan
(20,411 posts)discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,482 posts)Specifically, I said that "Characterizing my highlighting a lie as an NRA tactic IS just another lie." I'm unhappy to have my opinions falsely attributed and then dismissed.
It's fine if you want to think I'm a distraction. Just realize that it's insulting to have your beliefs reduced to the equivalent a copy and paste from somewhere else. I'm certain from what I said in post #7 that it is plain that I did some research and that my data clearly conflicts with the claim made in the article which was actually copied and pasted in the OP.
In case anyone is wondering if perhaps I've read that the claim about the "3,000" statistic is wrong before, I have for sure. I don't claim this line of thought as mine originally, I can't remember where or who I read said it. I can verify that the 3,000 number is a lie. That's a fact.
I'm certain that most pro-RKBA folks, myself included, believe that any children killed by a firearm due to whatever cause, is too many. Putting out an unsupportable number just smacks of propaganda and impunes the source. Let's agree to discuss based on the truth. You seem like decent and conscientious person. There's no need to defend a lie.
holdencaufield
(2,927 posts)So, you could say -- if you weren't overly concerned with veracity -- that any death is a child's death.
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,482 posts)I know how I feel about my children but that's an emotional connection that I have. I'm sure it's common. My reason for expressing that is to illustrate how ambiguous the term "child" is. It is rather suspect to convey a precise statistic reported by a government agency and in the same sentence refer to 19 year olds as "children".
holdencaufield
(2,927 posts)... of the difference between statistics and empathy?
You can make your point with accurate data or you can make your point with emotional appeals -- you don't really get to do both.
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,482 posts)..."You can make your point with accurate data or you can make your point with emotional appeals -- you don't really get to do both."
That was my point. You just can't throw out a hard number like 3,000 and add to it an emotionally based statement like calling a 19 year old a "child" and expect to be taken seriously.
holdencaufield
(2,927 posts)... I though you were supporting the expanded number by raising the age for a "child"
Mea culpa
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,482 posts)Maybe I need a new proofreader.
guardian
(2,282 posts)bought me my first carbine
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)I really like the way they named themselves
One Million Moms for Gun Control
and have 70K members.
Think Big Mommas.
DrDan
(20,411 posts)actually they are now known as "Moms Demand Action For Gun Sense In America"
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)DrDan
(20,411 posts)Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)spin
(17,493 posts)from her tiny S&W LadySmith revolver back in the 1920s. It is possibly the reason she survived to give birth to me.
DonP
(6,185 posts)They could probably save a lot of start up money by re-using all the Million Mom March stuff that Brady has in a back room somewhere.
Let's hope this incarnation has a better track record than the original MMM in terms of quality, non-felony membership.
IMHO, they'll thrive as long as someone like the Joyce Foundations funds them.
jimmy the one
(2,708 posts)Last edited Sun Feb 24, 2013, 04:58 PM - Edit history (2)
discntnt: I used CDC statistics ...and totaled firearm deaths for accidents, suicides and assaults for 2008. The total is 364 for those under 15 years of age.
Where is that 3,000 number coming from?
'Wisqars' (CDC), makes you right (mine from 2010), giving 380 for children 0 thru 14.
It seems the distinction is indeed age, & {edit: million moms grp, not wisqars} is defining children as under 20.
I sorta agree that 'children' should not include 18 & 19 yos, just 17 & under, which would yield 1,300 approx yearly gundeaths from accidents, suicides & homicides.
2010, United States Firearm Deaths All Races, Both Sexes, Ages 0 to 19
Number of
Deaths ..Population
2,711 .....83,267,556 = ('children' <or=19)
http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/dataRestriction_inj.html
(clickon 'I agree' & then at next webpage select 'all intents' and 'firearm' and then in 'custom age range' your age preferences. And then Submit.)
Tuesday Afternoon I really like the way they named themselves One Million Moms for Gun Control and have 70K members.
Kinda like how the NRA touts itself as the national rifle asso when it isnt national just has 4 million members out of ~90 million gun owners, & isn't a rifle asso but a gun association.
NRA only fits the tailing 3rd word, asso's.
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,482 posts)I kinda like how the federal government touts itself and sends ships, drones and soldiers 10,000 miles from the US to kill its enemies.
What would a fitting name really be?