Gun Background Checks Negotiation Stalled Over Records Dispute

[Pullo]

The senators have been bargaining quietly over ways to expand the checks to private sales. But Sen. Tom Coburn, R-Okla., a conservative who has taken a leading role in the talks, has opposed requiring record keeping for private transactions because of a concern it could lead to a national registry of gun owners, which is vehemently opposed by the National Rifle Association and other gun rights groups.

Democrats say keeping records of private sales is the only way to ensure the checks are performed, and say fears of the creation of a federal gun registry are unfounded. They have offered to have gun manufacturers or other private entities, not the government, keep those records.

The talks were described by a Senate aide and a lobbyist who spoke on condition of anonymity because the senators' talks are private and considered extremely politically sensitive.

The other senators participating in the bargaining are liberal Charles Schumer, D-N.Y., moderate Joe Manchin, D-W.Va., and moderate Mark Kirk, R-Ill.

An agreement involving the influential Coburn could be pivotal because it could pave the way for other Republicans to support a background check bill.

Coburn said Sunday that he opposed keeping records on "legitimate, law-abiding gun owners."

"All they have to do is create a record keeping and that will kill this bill," he said on "Fox News Sunday."

Link

So if the goal for the background checks proposal is to ensure only qualified individuals can buy a firearm, then they should just open up the NICS system and create an online portal.

[williesgirl]

1. don't these idiots have to register their cars? what's the diffrerence?

And I'm a gun owner.

[holdencaufield]

2. Is there a constitutional right to drive ...

... of which I'm unaware?

And, for the record, there is no federal regulation to register any vehicle that isn't used on public streets or highways.

[safeinOhio]

7. There is to vote.

To open an ISP. To be a doctor or lawyer. etc.

[holdencaufield]

8. Voter Registration isn't Federal ...

... it is controlled by different programs according to the state. North Dakota doesn't even require voter registration.

"states may not restrict voting rights in ways that infringe one's right to equal protection under the law"

And it has been determined that voter registration does not infringe on one's right to vote because it does not impact the voter's capacity to vote. Other voter programs, such as poll taxes, mandatory identification, and other have been struck down over and over because they COULD be used to infringe on said voting rights.

Mandatory registration is used in other countries specifically to impede gun ownership and aid in gun owner identification in case of a ban. Such a thing happened in Australia where registered guns not in compliance with a gun ban were systematically confiscated by the state. It is not inconceivable that gun registration could be used in this country in just the same way -- something voter registration cannot do (you can't confiscate a person's right to vote).

ISP registration isn't Federal -- it isn't even governmental. ISP's must be registered with private Domain Registries so they may be resolved to IP addresses. If you want to open a business as an ISP, you must register with the state, as with any business, so the government may collect taxes.

You don't have to register to BE a doctor or a lawyer -- only to practice as a doctor or a lawyer.

[beevul]

6. You have to register your car simply to own one?

Or is that a requirement for use in public?

[av8r1998]

3. nics is open....sorta

We use it ct for every private handgun sale.
I say sorta because it requires a permit, ffl, or certificate, and a phone call to slfu.

[Pullo]

4. Did not know that

Thank you.

[Lurks Often]

10. That is not completely accurate description,

CT has it's own NICS database.* Sometime in the past couple of years they changed the law so that private citizens could do handgun face to face sales by filling out the paperwork and then calling the state police to get an authorization number instead of having to go through an FFL and pay a fee. A pistol permit or one of the rare permits to purchase** is required to buy a handgun in CT.




*Not all of the states use the Federal NICS to do background checks, although I presume they share and compare data on a regular, frequent basis. VA was another state that had it's own until they recently switched to the Federal NICS.

** Because the requirements to obtain a Permit to Purchase are the same as a Pistol Permit, which allows you to carry, almost everybody opted for the Pistol Permit.

[av8r1998]

11. My understanding is that the state system

Is fed by the federal system.
So... CT facilitates it's availability to private citizens.

[kudzu22]

5. I've been saying that for years

Make an NICS website where people can punch in their info and get an authorization number. Seller writes down name of the buyer, date, make/model of gun and the auth number and he's good to go. No muss, no fuss.

[beemer27]

9. That would work

Kudzu,
Your solution would appease BOTH sides of this background check battle. Call a number, give the ID number on the picture ID of the prospective purchaser, get a simple yes or no, record the authorization number, and sell the firearm. The purchaser has a number that can be tracked to prove that there was a check, you have the number to prove that you made the check, the firearm itself is never identified or registered, and we have a law that everyone can live with. This actually might have some influence on the possession of firearms by the bad guys. The WILL still get guns, but not as many, and not as cheap, as in the past. The seller has some liability protection because he did it by the book, and the buyer can prove that he did not break any laws.
Why can't the folks in Washington figure out a simple and workable solution like us regular guys?

[av8r1998]

12. Most gun owners I know would be OK with this...

With a couple of restrictions:
1) The records should still be destroyed and
2) We don't add anything to the list of what would prevent purchase of a firearm.

[Jenoch]

13. I have a question I hope someone with more knowledge on this subject can answer.

With the NICS system now in place, how long are the records kept? I don't understand how a serious gun owner can be ok with a national gun registration law. Canada tried it and gave up. They also found out that it did not help with reducing crime.

[av8r1998]

14. At the federal level they are destroyed

The Tihart amenndment requires the destruction of NICS inquiries for firearms purchases after 24hrs.
States like CT keep theirs, which is "Pseudo-Registration".
It is not REAL registration because it does not require an owner to voluntarily register a pistol, does not require a renewal, does not require a fee, and there is no requirement that you ONLY carry a firearm registered to YOU.

So, if you moved to CT from another state, you do not need to report the firearm to the state.
My wife and I are allowed to carry (or transport, or do anything else legal, like go to a range or a compettion) one another's firearms. (With proper permits of course).

But if you purchase a handgun in CT legally, the state still knows you have it.

And yes, generally, gun owners are against Gun Registration schemes.

[ManiacJoe]

15. Also, registration of guns cannot happen via the NICS checks.

The federal NICS checks do not contain any info about the gun except for "rifle or shotgun or handgun" since that info is needed for the age check.

Obviously there is a ton of info about the buyer...

[av8r1998]

18. Here in CT

Whenever a handgun is purchased, Buyer and Seller info, serial #, make, model, and caliber are submitted to the state as part of the BG check process.
As I said, it's "Pseudo-Registration", but I understand that is not part of NICS.

[Jenoch]

16. "...generally, gun owners are against Gun Registration schemes."

Which is why I don't trust anyone on these threads who claims to be a gun owner, but is not opposed to gun registration.

[av8r1998]

17. I don't distrust them..

absent other evidence that they are not gun owners.
I think they are misinformed as to what effectiveness registration will have, and don't really believe that it would be used for confiscation