Gun Control & RKBA
Related: About this forumObama administration reveals new ATF gun probe rules
Reuters 34 mins ago
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Obama administration on Friday revealed new reforms undertaken to improve how it conducts undercover gun trafficking investigations in the wake of a botched operation in which scores of weapons disappeared.
The reforms require additional oversight of undercover operations, including those that involve more than 50 firearms, and, in most cases, ends the practice of paying gun dealers to serve as confidential informants.
Additionally, a new review committee has been established to monitor sensitive undercover cases or those that would have a "significant regional or national impact," according to the Justice Department.
The details were revealed just before Attorney General Eric Holder testifies on Thursday before members of the House of Representatives' Oversight and Government Reform Committee about the bungled operation known as "Fast and Furious."
http://news.yahoo.com/obama-administration-reveals-atf-gun-probe-rules-010306196.html
TheWraith
(24,331 posts)Often overruling the objections of the store owners who wanted to refuse the sales. One of several dozen reasons the ATF is considered a terrible agency run by utterly incompetent people.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)If they really did not want to sell guns that might be used to kill someone, THEY WOULD NOT BE IN THE GUN BUSINESS.
TheWraith
(24,331 posts)You could just as easily say that if a car dealer didn't want to be selling getaway vehicles to bank robbers, they wouldn't be in the car business.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)essential to our well being . . . . . . well yours maybe.
Now, if car dealers advertised their cars as getaway vehicles they might be analogous. But they don't. Gun dealers on the other hand do stock and sell guns made and marketed to those who want something to kill the boogeyman.
As to my "ignorance," at least I don't have to strap a gun on to walk down the street and I don't promote others doing so as an answer to crime.
TheWraith
(24,331 posts)Kind of like the Republicans talking about "welfare queens" driving Cadillacs; you create a stereotype in your head and base your opinions on that, instead of trying to gain any kind of accurate view of the people you're talking about.
rl6214
(8,142 posts)Now if gun dealers advertised their guns as being used to kill people, you might have made a point but as usual, you haven't.
"at least I don't have to strap a gun on to walk down the street "
and of course the usual dose of shtick thrown in for comic relief
one-eyed fat man
(3,201 posts)Part of Clyde's ability to evade capture was in his skill as a driver, while the other part was most definitely in the choices of cars that he stole. Quite often, Clyde would be in a car that could out maneuver and out run any of the police cars that attempted to follow him.
Additionally, living a life on the run meant that Clyde and Bonnie spent days and even weeks at a time in their car while traveling long distances and sleeping in their car at night.
The car that Clyde preferred, one that offered both speed and comfort, was the Ford V-8. Clyde was so thankful for these cars that he wrote Henry Ford a letter in April 10, 1934.
The letter read:
Tulsa, Okla
10th April
Mr. Henry Ford
Detroit Mich.
Dear Sir: --
While I still have got breath in my lungs I will tell you what a dandy car you make. I have drove Fords exclusively when I could get away with one. For sustained speed and freedom from trouble the Ford has got ever other car skinned and even if my business hasen't been strickly legal it don't hurt anything to tell you what a fine car you got in the V8 --
Yours truly
Clyde Champion Barrow
Over the years, many have questioned the authenticity of Clyde's letter to Henry Ford, based on a discrepancy over handwriting. The letter is currently on display at the Henry Ford Museum in Dearborn, Michigan.
Bonnie and Clyde met their death in this stolen Ford V8.
Clyde Barrow was particularly partial to the BAR. His were stolen from National Guard Armories and he had modified them to suit. Colt, starting in 1931 manufactured a civilian version of the BAR called the Monitor, for the police market. When Bonnie & Clyde met their end, Frank Hamer (the Texas Ranger that led ambush that killed them)requested, and received four Colt 'Monitors' with two magazines each of armor-piecing ammunition. The posse consisting of two Texas and two Louisiana lawmen fired a total of 167 rounds.
Along with the bodies of Clyde Barrow and Bonnie Parker the stolen 1934 Ford Deluxe Sedan contained:
* Three 30-caliber Browning automatic rifles (BARs)
* One ten-gauge sawed-off shotgun
* One twenty-gauge sawed-off shotgun
* Six Colt 45-caliber automatic pistols
* One Colt 32-caliber automatic pistol
* One Colt 38-caliber revolver
* One Colt 45-caliber revolver
* 3000 rounds of ammunition
* The most heinous weapon of all: one saxophone!
burf
(1,164 posts)by those gun suppliers, not by the guys who sold them but by those who were called by concerned dealers an told them "let the guns go".
You are catching on, slowly, but you're gettin' there.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Fortunately, F&F is now yielding convictions and has slowed down the trafficking of guns to Mexico.
I hope the ATF modifies some aspects of the program, but keeps it up there and nationwide. It will pay dividends in the future, although I admit it pisses off members of the "gun culture" afraid their pipeline to more and more guns might be narrowed.
beevul
(12,194 posts)" They were not required to sell them."
Yeay, you're right, they didn't HAVE to cooperate with ATF.
That IS of course, the accurate description at hand.
Or had you forgotten:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x5001612
"collateral damage".
Pfft.
Of course, if they hadn't cooperated with ATF you'd be all over that, telling us all how "baser" or "rude" they were, or some other such contrived nonsense designed to paint them in one evil fashion or another.
You know it, and everyone here knows it.
Must be nice to have it both ways.
rl6214
(8,142 posts)Really? The guns were going to Mexico. I don't think anyone in the "gun culture" are getting their guns from Mexico.
rl6214
(8,142 posts)and of course if you had proof they were "happy to take the money" you would prove it BUT as usual, you don't. That make about as much sense as this comment:
"If they really did not want to sell guns that might be used to kill someone, THEY WOULD NOT BE IN THE GUN BUSINESS."
Because of course they don't sell at all to hunters, only to murderers.
Atypical Liberal
(5,412 posts)You are ignoring the fact that some gun stores called the ATF and raised a red flag, but they were told to proceed with the sales by the ATF.
If they really did not want to sell guns that might be used to kill someone, THEY WOULD NOT BE IN THE GUN BUSINESS.
This is like saying if a car dealership did not want to sell cars that might be used to kill someone they would not be in the car business.
SteveW
(754 posts)...since the ATF didn't pay any attention to them in the first place.
jody
(26,624 posts)private citizens, they would be facing long prison sentences.
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)Your title is a direct quote and I am not taking you to task for it.
The BATF has changed its rules on how it will run major sting operations.
The BATF and the administration can not control how the Congress chooses to investigate/probe the situation.
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)1. How do I send a correction or letter to the editor?
Send an e-mail to info@ap.org and it will be forwarded to the reporter or editor.
http://www.ap.org/pages/about/faq.html#1
Always an option...
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)I applaud the changes, but I question the timing.
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,479 posts)...always has an element of timing.