In our supposed democracy, guns continue to rule

[ellisonz]

By Leonard Pitts Jr.
6:00 a.m. EST, January 29, 2012

In a democracy, nothing is supposed to matter more than the will of the people.

So it was painful to watch last week as the will of the people was overturned and one of Arizona's duly elected representatives was forced from office. It wasn't a recall vote or scandal that did it. No, the people's will was overturned by a gun.

After a year of upbeat bulletins and proclamations of her miracle recovery, the decision by Rep. Gabrielle Giffords to leave Congress comes as a bit of a blow. In a video, she explains that she needs to concentrate full time on her rehab. Ms. Giffords speaks clearly, but with a sometimes odd cadence, as if picking her way through an unfamiliar language -- evidence of the brain injury she sustained when she was shot in the head last year at a constituents event in Tucson. Thirteen other people were wounded, six killed.

This episode joins a long list of elections overturned and social movements derailed by men with guns, as in the shootings of Abraham Lincoln, James Garfield, William McKinley, Huey Long, Malcolm X, Medgar Evers, the Kennedy brothers, George Wallace, George Moscone, Harvey Milk and Martin Luther King Jr. Somehow, people who should never have guns never have trouble getting them. John Kennedy's assassin, a disaffected former Marine who had once defected to the Soviet Union, bought his by mail order. King's assassin, a wanted fugitive, bought his over the counter.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/oped/bal-in-our-supposed-democracy-guns-continue-to-rule-20120127,0,6951944.story

Right on the money...

[TheWraith]

1. Apparently, America is the only country that's ever had political violence, I guess.

Never mind the fact that we've had a lot less of it than almost any other country you'd care to name.

Also, apparently despite several rounds of laws, gun laws haven't changed at all since the 1960s, making the King and JFK examples totally valid, except for the fact that they're not.

[napoleon_in_rags]

2. Quotation from Mao Zedongs little red book:

"Every Communist must grasp the truth: Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun."

This was written in 1964, no liberal in America cares about that book, but some goons are willing to attack liberals assuming that they are members of the communist party and DO care about it.

Americans, right and left, need to decide if they side with Mao Zedong, or with the founding father's silly idea that power comes from the non-violent collaboration of the people to decide their best interest. Those who side with the founding father's should be willing to lay down the law, that no politician displaced from office due to violence should be replaced with opposition, but rather with a representative of the same party and views as the murdered, so that the choice is made by the people free of coercion.

[ellisonz]

3. The Founding Fathers by and large...

...were opposed to faction. Strangely enough, I carry a copy of the Little Red Book around in my back pack.

[napoleon_in_rags]

4. I just ruled for your free speech in a recent DU Jury.

I was the only one who voted that you were being oppressed in the BOG, while the consensus believed that you were not. Now I encounter you in person, rolling on the floor laughing over your own comment that you carry chairman Mao's little red book around in your backpack.

Do you know many Chinese? My experience is that they are big "patriots" in terms of loving their county, but they often have some serious critiques of Chairman Mao.

[ellisonz]

5. Thank you for standing up for free speech.

I've had a long day. I think you misunderstood me, I carry it to learn how to defeat not communism or self-determination, but tyranny. It gives me something to always read. I was laughing more that it even came up in this context. I'm trying to understand how those in the PRC leadership think. I'm a China-watcher. I've posted dozens of articles on Tibet and social change in the PRC in the last couple months on DU. I'm fascinated by the history of the Asia-Pacific and make a study of it.

I have some Chinese/Taiwanese friends. Believe me, I understand the serious critiques, but I also know the chaos, weakeness, and death that preceded the rise of the PRC, and the complex history of modern China. I kind of detach myself in order to objective sometimes in this regard.

You might find this post I made on Chinese history interesting: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1166129

Also, you might like this blog: http://www.thechinabeat.org/

P.S. I'm sorry that the images aren't showing up. I maxed out one of my photobucket accounts.

[napoleon_in_rags]

6. Okay then, peace.

And good night, free speecher!

[X_Digger]

7. We are not a direct democracy..

[div class='excerpt']In a democracy, nothing is supposed to matter more than the will of the people.

So then, can the 'will of the people' vote to reinstate slavery? Can the 'will of the people' assign a state religion?

[div class='excerpt']We need meaningful background checks on all gun purchases -- no loopholes. A mentally unstable man should not have legal access to a gun, period.

Loughner passed a background check from a licensed dealer. Nobody got off their asses to have him TRO'd and evaluated. (Which is easier to do in AZ than it is in many other states.)

[div class='excerpt']We need to ban fully automatic weapons from private use. The hunter who needs a gun that fires hundreds of rounds a minute isn't much of a hunter.

Insert non-sequitur-filled hyperbole here.

Seriously?!? What the fuck do full-auto weapons have to do with any serious discussion?!?

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

19. A hat-trick

On target, center ring on all three points.

[Buzz cook]

30. Well

So then, can the 'will of the people' vote to reinstate slavery? Can the 'will of the people' assign a state religion?

Why, yes, yes they can. The constitution is amendable.

Heck I remember Spiro Agnew calling for a new Constitutional convention. If you get enough people to agree you could over turn the whole document.

[X_Digger]

31. Slavery? I think the courts would rule as an infringement of multiple rights..

.. were the 13th amendment be repealed.

The bill of rights does not grant rights- merely prohibits government from infringing them. Repeal the 13th and slavery doesn't become legal.

Let's imagine a constitutional convention were called and the 13th were repealed. Then Bumfuck, Somestate passes a law saying that punishment for manslaughter is 5 years of slavery, sold to the highest bidder.

The right to liberty, the right to travel, the right to enter contracts- all would be infringed by the state's actions.

[DonP]

32. According to Mr. Pitts if that's what the majority wants...

Constitution, BoR, rule of law and ethics be damned. Just give him whatever 51% of people want and he's happy. <sarcasm off>

Thankfully the Constitution and BoR was designed to protect us from shallow thinking idiots like Pitts and others who think "Majority rule" is a great way to go.

[slackmaster]

8. Mr. Pitts is correct that people on the extremes of gun issues talk past each other, however...

...he's off track on a few things.

...We need to ban fully automatic weapons from private use....

They effectively ARE banned. Only very wealthy people can afford to buy them, and the use of lawfully owned ones in crime since 1934 has been a non-issue.

...A mentally unstable man should not have legal access to a gun, period....

This is already addressed in the law. Someone who has been adjudicated BY A COURT OF LAW as mentally incompetent cannot legally acquire or use a firearm. Mr. Pitts has failed to give a specific suggestion as to how address the fact that there will always be people who are mentally unstable but have not yet been declared so lawfully.

[Dr_Scholl]

10. I don't expect journalists to do research before writing an article anymore.

But I think he was referring to so called semi-automatic "assault" weapons.

[slackmaster]

14. Then he is just another fucking useless ignoramus parroting propaganda

[Dr_Scholl]

16. Pretty much.

n/m

[SteveW]

37. I don't think he is ignorant of "full automatic." He is dishonest. nt

[AtheistCrusader]

9. Holy shit, I better keep a closer eye on my guns.

I didn't know they were secretly our overlords.

[gejohnston]

11. and are framing the

Trilateral Commission, Masons, and Bilderberg group.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

20. don't forget controlling the CFR, CIA and FFA

[montanto]

26. Duh, that's why you keep them unloaded when you aren't watching them.

You never know what they'll do next.

[DonP]

12. An Op Ed in the fine tradition of Carl Rowan

Carl was a big believer in gun control to stop crime ... except for him of course. That was different. But gun controllers embrace him, he hasn't shot any kids in his yard ... yet.

Pitts is ignorant of the all the current laws and hypocritical in the least.

What an uninformed idiot, counting on the abysmal ignorance of his "readership" to make a point.

The comments in the Chicago Tribune are running about 10 to 1 against his POV, and that even includes one guy that wants "a complete gun ban like they have in Mexico", to stop the violence.

[liberal_biker]

13. Since we aren't a democracy....

....the entire article is crap from the beginning.

Journalism is such garbage today. When did fact checking become optional?

[Atypical Liberal]

15. When I read these kinds of things...

When I read these kinds of things, I'm torn by a desire to refute them and just sit back and bask in the warm glow of schadenfreude. Today, schadenfreude wins.

[krispos42]

17. I'm waiting for a ban on cell-phone cameras...

...since they apparently subvert the will of the people, too.


With all due respect to Abraham Lincoln et. al., far more elections and social movements have been derailed by men with money. Reaganomics has proven this beyond a shadow of a doubt, and taxing the wealthy has far more support than civilian disarmament. And yet...

[Common Sense Party]

18. "the people's will was overturned by a gun."

And somewhere else, the "people's will" was "overturned" by a penis and a Twitter account.

And somewhere else, "the people's will" was "overturned" by cancer.

Life happens. Shit happens. Some people do stupid things. Some people (not objects) do evil things. And sometimes stuff just happens.

But we're adults. We understand we live in an imperfect world. We move on, and try to move forward, and the people try to assert their will the next time.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

21. By this same logic...

...in 1850, the will of the people was "overturned" possibly by medical malpractice.

[Bloberman1959]

22. Agreed. If not for the evil of the gun this would not have happened.

ALL guns need to be banned. Anyone that thinks they need a gun to function in society needs help. Just another reason for free mental health care for those that need it.

[DonP]

23. "Evil of the gun" "All guns need to be banned?"

Congratulations, you are one of the few gun control "fans" willing to say that out loud.

Now just get started on repealing that pesky 2nd amendment thingie and you'll have your wish I'm sure. Once guns are gone there will be no more violence or robberies. After all there were none before guns, right?

The fact that violent crime is at the lowest point in over 40 years and that a majority of Americans (not to mention SCOTUS and our President) believe the 2nd amendment protects a right to individual gun ownership shouldn't be an issue for a committed gun grabber.

Enjoy you stay at DU.

[X_Digger]

24. Welcome to DU. Enjoy your stay, however long it is.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

33. on DU3 -- -

could be a very long time . . .

[liberal_biker]

25. Let us know when you have....

....an original, coherent argument, OK?

[SteveW]

38. Forget your sarcasm tag? Funny, regardless. How many guns do you own? nt

[Tuesday Afternoon]

39. free mental health care ?!

we are reaping the results of the cutbacks on those programs as we post on this message board

[eqfan592]

27. If by "right on the money" you mean....

...as wrong as humanly possible, and completely distracting away from the ACTUAL root causes of violence in this nation, thus also being completely counter-productive, then yes, I agree with you completely....

[Simo 1939_1940]

28. In our supposed "debate" some gun restriction supporters

simply copy/paste from the Brady Campaign page on Facebook.

[ellisonz]

29. Wamp Wamp

You're free to post whatever you like in this group so long as its consistent with the DU Community Standards, Terms of Service, and Copyright Policy!

[Clames]

34. Lack of original thinking...

...is what makes their side so weak. Nothing quite so predictable as a copy/paste from Brady, VPC, or MAIG....

[Simo 1939_1940]

35. A point that clearly went whizzing over the head of the author. NT

[SteveW]

36. "Hi. I'm a gun and I rule democracy. Pay no attention to the thug holding me..."

Sorry, it is the criminal, extremist and thug which commits the crime. I know you don't like it, but that's the hard truth.

And you can't refute it.