Confiscation???

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

From another thread a link: http://www.pollingreport.com/guns.htm


The number of times this has been denied by the media, by gun control proponents and by anti-rights politicians must number in the hundreds if not thousands and yet this isn't not what Americans believe.

I'd like to ask the pro control to take another look. I want to know, apart from the issue of guns and politics, if you've ever been lied to. I want everyone to think about that because of all the treasures in the world, trust is easy to find but much harder to maintain. I've heard that politics is horse trading. I don't like the idea that the history of politics in this country inspires doubt and distrust.

I have two quotes to share:

"To state the facts frankly is not to despair the future nor indict the past. The prudent heir takes careful inventory of his legacies and gives a faithful accounting to those whom he owes an obligation of trust."
"If the people cannot trust their government to do the job for which it exists - to protect them and to promote their common welfare - all else is lost."

Nothing erodes trust faster lies. Think about when you've been lied to; how you felt and what you thought. Does a liar have credibility? Now consider this from the linked page.

- "If the federal government does create a national list of people who own guns, do you think the government would use that information to take guns away from people who own them?"
Yes/No/Unsure - 66/32/2%
- "Do you believe that if there are background checks for all gun purchases the government will or will not use that information in the future to confiscate legally-owned guns?"
Will/Will not/Unsure - 48/38/14

Here's my question for the pro control group: credibility is vitally lacking on some issues under debate regarding gun control and I hear all the time how information from various pro-RKBA sources shouldn't be trusted.
Why should yours?

[AnotherMcIntosh]

1. The ACLU expressed opposition to a national registry. That should give some pause to anyone,

including those who claim to be spokesmen for what-the-left-is-thinking-so-long-as-it-is-opposition-to-gun-ownership.

Ted Kennedy, even as a nationally-known Senator, was a victim of a national list, the no-fly list. One of the most admirable traits of Ted Kennedy is that he was a liberal. Just as the ACLU is opposed to a national registry, in the absence of information, no one should invoke Ted Kennedy's name and erroneously claim that he would be in favor of a national registry.

Can you trust national lists and employees like those working at the TSA?

With respect to the nationally known Ted Kennedy, in two months alone, he was stopped five times
from boarding planes in a normal manner by TSA agents and their no-fly list.

"Instead of acknowledging the craggy-faced, silver-haired septuagenarian as the Congressional leader whose face has flashed across the nation's television sets for decades, the airline agents acted as if they had stumbled across a fanatic who might blow up an American airplane. Mr. Kennedy said they refused to give him his ticket.

"He said, 'We can't give it to you,' " Mr. Kennedy said, describing an encounter with an airline agent to the rapt audience. " 'You can't buy a ticket to go on the airline to Boston.' I said, 'Well, why not?' He said, 'We can't tell you.' "

"Tried to get on a plane back to Washington," Mr. Kennedy continued. '' 'You can't get on the plane.' I went up to the desk and said, 'I've been getting on this plane, you know, for 42 years. Why can't I get on the plane?' "

The hearing room erupted in laughter.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/20/national/20flight.html

If the Federal government did not sanction free feel-ups by TSA employees, and didn't regularly screw-up like they did with the no-fly list and Ted Kennedy (plus others), they might have greater credibility.

For anyone who believes that another national list is going to make us all feel more secure, can you honestly say that there are no employees like the TSA workers who just like to screw with people?

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

12. Exactly n/t

[flamin lib]

2. Because we're right and every poll, research, statistic and rational

thought bears it out.

[oneshooter]

3. So you support the "no fly list" and want it expanded to firearms owners?

[flamin lib]

4. Oh hell yeah! Start with the NRA membership list. nt

Last edited Wed May 1, 2013, 06:22 PM - Edit history (1)

[shadowrider]

6. The "No fly list" was started by Bush

Are you saying you're a Bush supporter?

[flamin lib]

8. Yeah, shadow & coke, even a blind pig finds an acorn now and then.

Anything that infringes on what you think is a 2nd amendment right gives me a woody.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

9. A lib would not support the blocking of enumerated rights based on a shadowy list

with no oversight of the executive branch that created it.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

15. What does it say...

...about folks who want to vote on who gets to exercise a right. Aren't there enough pro control Congresspersons to get together and draft some measure that holds some legal water that they can make some degree of progress?

[flamin lib]

19. Not with fetishists and the NRA running things.

There won't be any progress until we confiscate all guns and put all gun owners in re-education camps.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

21. Whatever mindless and numb-brained contemplations...

...are proffered, if nothing is done to heal the festering credibility wounds that pro control sports, those ideas won't be going anywhere. It won't matter whether the topic is background checks or getting change when riding mass transit, it won't be happening.

Sweet dreams

[flamin lib]

31. Edit your post to read "anti control" and I will have made my point. nt

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

45. No thanks...

...read my sig line and consider deprogramming.

[CokeMachine]

22. R U on the correct board??

So much hate and little to no thought. Jeb is that you???

[flamin lib]

32. Yeah, that pretty well describes my experience here, hence my

little experiment in showing you guys whar you look like to the rest of the world.

LaPierrier would be so proud.

[CokeMachine]

47. Cool story Bro.

Before you decide to delete it:

"There won't be any progress until we confiscate all guns and put all gun owners in re-education camps."

Take Care

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

50. Suggesting that fellow DU members...

...(namely the gun owners), need re-education camps. If that's not alert fodder...

[CokeMachine]

51. Yep -- that one and a couple of others are just here to disrupt.

If it were the echo chamber he'd have been blocked already.

Take Care

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

55. That was my point but...

...I'm not alerting. I favor discussion. I favor having different opinions. Maybe that sets some of us apart from others.

You think?


You take care, as well.

[CokeMachine]

57. Looks like at least one blames you. So much for their accuracy.

I did alert here are the results. Hot topic and all. At least one of the comments blames you. Just wanted to keep the record clear.

At Thu May 2, 2013, 06:13 PM you sent an alert on the following post:

Not with fetishists and the NRA running things.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=121657

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

YOUR COMMENTS:

Putting gun owners (fellow Decocrats) into re-educations camps is over the top. Please hide.

JURY RESULTS

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Thu May 2, 2013, 06:19 PM, and voted 3-3 to LEAVE IT ALONE.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: I don't agree with the post, unfortunately the confiscation crowd exists, but I don't find it worthy of a hide..
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: The odds of discntnt_irny_srcsm being a fucking DEMOCRAT is about 10 billion to 1. To hell with the gun nuts.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: If you're going to play in RKBA, be prepared to debate. Don't just hit Alert when your feelings get hurt. Toughen up or log off.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT and said: OTT !
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given

Thank you.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

59. I invite the jurors...

...to read the Bill of Rights.

[Eleanors38]

53. Alert? You really think it will be hidden? Some project hatred, then blame us for it.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

56. Absolutely not.

I think the chance of it being hidden are much better than me winning the powerball but not as good as me winning a simple bet on the "Don't Pass" line at the craps table.


My point was that there's no way an alert on that could be taken as a frivolous alert by anyone reasonable. I'm sure that "flamin lib" fellow must be nice enough at the county fair or a neighbor's barbecue but just non-negotiable on the topic at hand.

All these disagreements will be worked out eventually.

[Eleanors38]

58. I hope you are right. There is such a synthetic quality about our worst passions.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

60. There will be something...

...somewhere that brings them back to reality.

[rl6214]

43. Aaaaaaaahahahahaha

Oh, you're serious?

[holdencaufield]

52. Who said gun control fanatics are liberal?

By any logical definition, those who seek to curtail civil rights are exactly the opposite of liberal.

[gejohnston]

10. this acorn?

http://www.aclu.org/national-security/latif-et-al-v-holder-et-al-aclu-challenge-government-no-fly-list

Today, the government's No Fly List consists of thousands of people who have been barred altogether from commercial air travel with no meaningful chance to clear their names, resulting in a vast and growing group of individuals whom the government deems too dangerous to fly but too harmless to arrest. It is unconstitutional for the government to put people on secret lists and deny them the right to travel without even basic due process.

Secret lists and denying due process is not a liberal value.

[flamin lib]

16. But I can ignore the constitution if it serves my

purpose just as RKBAers can interpret the 2nd in the vacuum of an echo chamber.

[DonP]

11. Actually, ... I think the no fly list was a Cheney brainstorm.

I'm sure it must be comforting to some folks to know they are supporting one of Bush/Cheney's big ideas to fight Terrah? No due process, no way to get off the list or learn how you got on it. Some progressives embrace some strange ideas when it comes to firearms don't they?

I guess it's just another way for gun control "Fans" to tell the ACLU to go fuck themselves!

After all, if it stops just one gun sale ... right?

[flamin lib]

17. Absolutely! Just one gun sale is worth it all! nt

[DonP]

20. The nice part is no one, beyond your own dinner table, is listening to you and your wacky ideas

Well, there might be one echo chamber where they'll pin a medal on you for the wackiest, most unconstitutional idea of the day.

But for over 22 years now all we've heard from your side is ranting and raving about all the new laws you're going to get passed and then .... nothing in the Senate, House or from the Judiciary.

No AWB, no magazine limits and by over reaching for a registry you blew the chance we all supported for a better background check system. That $12 million Bloomie claims to have spent didn't seem to get very far.

The one thing we can always count on thought is that gun controllers are all online talk and no action out there in the real world. Always waiting for your hero Bloomberg or somebody else to show up and actually pay the bills and finance the whole program. But never quite able to muster the votes for people that see it your way and run ona gun control platform.

Handfuls of "protestors" show up for anti gun protests and thousand show up at local gun shows. Yeah, you're the majority mainstream opinion.

But you keep ranting online ... as if it matters in the real world.

[CokeMachine]

7. Bush thanks you for the support!!

Almost forgot to add Cheney. Good company you keep

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

14. Let me guess...

...because you said so?

yeah... credibility...

[flamin lib]

18. Here in the Gungeon it's as good a reason as any. nt

[CokeMachine]

23. Good to see you can spout your right wing bullshit somewhere.

Are you trolling or do you have a different agenda?

[flamin lib]

29. Just showing you what it's like to try to talk to you guys. nt

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

46. Thanks for stopping by...

...to lend a bit of irony and add to our credibility.

[virginia mountainman]

25. Polls also say the american public have a strong adversion to Obamacare..

What do you think we should do about that?????

Be consistent please...

[flamin lib]

27. You're reading old polls. Be current please. nt

[Tuesday Afternoon]

5. however, in all fairness, I think both sides of this issue -

have plenty of liars representing.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

13. for real!

Credibility is in short supply on both sides. I've been saying for awhile that, if there is any progress to be made on this issue, it will be the Democrats that will lead the way. However, when pro control champions tell some half baked lies and make insincere promises with treachery in mind, I just remember Commodus all dressed in white with the all the best in mind for the citizens of Rome.

[flamin lib]

24. The above sub-thread was a spoof of you guys in the Gungeon.

I'm absolutely amazed that none of you saw it for what it was. Sorta.

All I did was parrot the bad logic, poor interpretation of law and Constitution and head up ass thinking I see here.

I don't actually believe anything I've said up-thread, just showing you guys what you look like to everybody else; unreasoning, blind to others and hopelessly locked in self adoration.

Enjoy the mirror.

[gejohnston]

26. about that bad logic

why do gun control advocates string so many logical fallacies together to make their arguments?
You didn't parrot anything. That really is the level of discourse that antis use around here.

[flamin lib]

28. I have absolutely parroted you guys.

You're just too blinded by gun huggery to see it.

Really and sincerely, look over the "debates" here and count the talking points, repeated truisms and oft repeated phrases then tell me I've done anything different.

There are none so blind . . .

[gejohnston]

30. I'd say you would be the one blinded

I have yet to see a logical argument from the gun hatey crowd. I do see a lot of post hoc ergo propter hoc, glittering generalities, appeals to emotion, name calling, but nothing remotely rational.
BTW, those "every studies" are usually paid for by the same foundation that astro turfs VPC and Brady Center and not likely peer reviewed.

[flamin lib]

34. FYI I have a C&R FFL and have been through background checks at

every level. I currently have 15 firearms under lock and key. I hardly think I'm part of the gun hatey crowd.

I'll admit to being part of the head up ass, my way or the highway, I'm a Constitutional expert, no negotiation in spite of facts and otherwise totally unreasonable asshat hatey group.

[gejohnston]

36. that explains why you are here

I'll admit to being part of the head up ass, my way or the highway, I'm a Constitutional expert, no negotiation in spite of facts and otherwise totally unreasonable asshat hatey group.

instead of some other places.
We are pretty moderate here, and we have the facts down pat.
FWIW, Josh Sugarmann at the VPC has a type one FFL. 1-54-000-01-8C-00725

[flamin lib]

37. That is a defination of moderate that I've not been made aware of. nt

[Straw Man]

41. Are you now going to tell us that gungeoneers can't spell?

That is a defination of moderate that I've not been made aware of.

It's part of the spoof, right?

[Straw Man]

33. Really?

I have absolutely parroted you guys.

That's odd -- I don't recall anyone calling for gun-controllers to be sent to re-education camps.

Really and sincerely, look over the "debates" here and count the talking points, repeated truisms and oft repeated phrases then tell me I've done anything different.

There are none so blind . . .

There's so much irony oozing out of that little gem that I'm going to have to on an irony-free diet for at least three weeks just to get my system back in irony-equilibrium.

[flamin lib]

35. None so blind . . . nt

[Straw Man]

38. Indeed.

(How long do you want to keep this up for?)

[flamin lib]

39. As long as it takes for you to realize the whole sub-thread was a spoof.

Re-education camps? Really? And you bit on that one?

First post was "we're right . . . all polls . . facts . . ." and you bit on that?

The Gungeon takes itself far too seriously. I've made my point.

Thanks for your participation.

I'm done with this sub-sub-sub thread.

[Straw Man]

40. Your sarcasm failed, my friend.

You comported yourself like an asshole and then said, "See, that's what you guys do." It was -- dare I say it? -- a straw man.

Yes, you're done. You proved nothing except that you have nothing whatsoever to contribute to the discussion.

[Common Sense Party]

44. Ever notice that 90% of the posters with "lib" or "dem" as part of their screen name...

...sound an awful lot like a RW'er trying to SOUND like a parody of a progressive?

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

49. In light of the OP here...

...how does any of that enhance pro control side credibility?

[rrneck]

42. I'd be more interested to know why they want to be lied to. nt

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

48. I expect that says something about...

...the relationship between the liars and the dupes. IMHO the relationship and mentalities on both sides mirror those of others that tell/believe in fairy tales.

[Eleanors38]

54. The last part highlighted was why the ACLU sent a warning flag up about the proposed legislation.nt