Gail Collins gives Bronx cheer to Bloomberg's anti-gun efforts.

[Eleanors38]

http://seattletimes.com/html/opinion/2021192607_collinscolumngunsbloombergxml.html

Recently, New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg advised voters to "close their wallets" when it came to donating to Democrats who did not tow his line on gun-control. The reaction among Democrats is anger.

"The Democratic leaders are privately double-furious. (Not publicly, because they do not want to be squashed by a mob of people chasing floating $100 bills.) They argue, with absolute accuracy, that if the Democrats lose control of the Senate in 2014, there will be no gun bill to vote for, because Mitch McConnell, as majority leader, would never allow one to get to the floor."

The anger is not limited to Democratic Party regulars:

"Some gun-control advocates regard this as a disastrous example of tone-deaf politics: the war on Big Gulps writ large."

And of course there is this tongue-through-cheek cutie:

"There’s one really good argument on Bloomberg’s side. Maybe the only way to get serious gun reforms passed in Congress is to convince our elected officials that people who believe in reasonable gun control are as insane as the forces of the National Rifle Association."

Collins does offer up a fair assessment of the "intensity" issue of gun politics, though in reality the issue is about grass-roots organization, a wide donor base, and old-fashioned motivation:

"Gun control is the classic example of an intensity-of-preference issue. Most people support it, but not enough to hinge their vote on it. Suppose you are a member of Congress and you knew that 60 percent of the people in your district favored improved background checks on gun purchases, but not in an obsessive way. Forty percent opposed them and — most important — 20 percent (presumably
half of her 40%) will hate you forever if you thwart their will. They won’t care if you vote to open a prison camp for puppies as long as you go their way on guns. You could leave your wife, beat your children and starve the family hamster to death, and they will still vote for you as long as you’re OK on the Second Amendment. The political path is obvious."

But she has a curious faith in some kind of long-range future of gun-control, though I wouldn't write home about it:

"Bloomberg has had lots of causes — from health research to education, to helping the environment by abolishing taxis that tall people can fit in. And then there’s gun control, which he thinks he can win on even if the short-term results of his efforts are a 2014 U.S. Senate that hates the concept entirely.

"Well, it’s a complicated world to be heroic in. Just ask The Incredible Hulk."
___________

Collins if, of course, an ardent controller herself. Maybe it's time she stepped back and took a serious look at just what she wants out of gun politics, instead of engaging in a snarky and dated hat & cane culture war which depended on the (now declining) mainstream media as a substitute for that "intensity" she speaks of.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

1. Could anyone really think that this member of the super-rich who regularly trashes the 4th Amendment

with his stop-and-frisk police-goons, and who trashed the 1st Amendment by siccing his police-goons on Occupy Wall Street protestors, genuinely wants to help elect Democrats who would act in our best interests?

[Eleanors38]

2. I think Bloomberg is in search of a vacuum...

when the Democratic Party gives up any pretense of being either a viable party in the resistance of oligarchy or a worthy opponent to the GOP far right. His authoritarian outlook, therefore, must include widespread gun bans. He may be onto something with a projected collapse of the Democratic Party, but he will continue to have severe problems with his enabling disarmament goal.

[DonP]

3. Nonsense, anyone can see she's just another NRA shill

But I know at least one poster in Castle Bansalot who will have trouble with their hero worship this evening.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

4. this issue has the potential to split the party much the same way that

abortion did for the Repubs ... and thanks to that the nation ended up with Tea baggers ...

wonder what will branch off this way?

[jimmy the one]

5. bloomberg very in line with dems

macintosh: Could anyone really think that this member {mayor bloomberg} of the super-rich .. genuinely wants to help elect Democrats who would act in our best interests?

Yes I do. I also think you're a bit confused, maybe this will help:

1 CBS: In general, do you think gun control laws should be made more strict, less strict, or kept as they are now?"5/31 - 6/4/13
national ..51 MoreStrict..11 Less ..36 Kept as are
Republicans ...30 .......22 ..........47
Democrats....78 ........2 ........18
Ind................. 46 .......12 ..........41
CBS: 4/13 Dems 81 ...5 ......14
2 CNN apr2013: stricter gun control laws?"Democrats Favor 82 .. Oppose 18
3 Quinnipiac mar2012, stricter GC: Democrats Favor 78% ... Oppose 19
4 Quinn, jan2013: nationwide ban on the sale of assault weapons?"Democrats Favor 81.. Oppose 16 http://www.pollingreport.com/guns.htm

mac: Could anyone really think that this member {mayor bloomberg} of the super-rich .. genuinely wants to help elect Democrats who would act in our best interests?

Firstly, do the polls make you, or anyone else who is progun, ashamed to be a democrat? If not why not? Peruse & answer before moving on to next sentence.
In light of recent revelations that democrats support gun control efforts over 4 to 1, & the OP article is rightwing biased bulkwrap as any fair & honest democrat would recognize, shouldn't you reconsider & retract?
(Again, bloomberg wants to keep new york donor's money outside of the 4 red states those progun senators represent - this isn't the same as wanting them defeated; can't this be gotten thru thick heads?).

[Eleanors38]

7. Your answers...

(1) No. Most Democrats support the RKBA.

(2) Has Gail Collins "gone over" to the GOPers?

(3) Nah, he wants 'em defeated; any GOPer would.

[DonP]

8. Yeah, what the fuck does a guy like Schumer know, right?

Hmmm, who to pay attention to, an anonymous voices on the intrerwebz, or leading Democrats like Collins and Schumer?

"New York Democratic Sen. Charles Schumer, himself a leading voice for more gun-control, has come out against television ads chastising Senate Democrats for voting against the Manchin-Toomey amendment that would have expanded background checks.

“The mayor of New York City putting ads against people in red states is not going to be effective,” Schumer said.

He was talking about television time purchased by Mayors Against Illegal Guns (MAIG), a group founded by New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg.

This week, Bloomberg raised the ante by urging Democratic campaign contributors who live in New York to stop writing checks for Democrats who voted against a plan to expand background checks on gun buyers, including Arkansas Sen. Mark Pryor. Schumer is former chairman of the Senate Democratic Campaign Committee."

But you keep pumping Bloomberg like a hero and savior for gun control, as he writes checks against Dems and if the worse happens in 2014, you can always blame gun owning Democrats for your stupidity, you always do anyway.

[CokeMachine]

10. I have nothing to add

you've covered the subject in your usual intelligent manner. Keep on keeping on!!!

[ileus]

6. It's sad to see our party knee jerk into their regressive past.

It's sad to see us so wrong in such a basic human right.....before we can care about any other subject we need to assure we have the tools to defend ourselves.

[ceonupe]

9. the worst thing that ever happened to gun control issue was having mayor big gulp be the primary...

the worst thing that ever happened to the gun control issue was having mayor big gulp be the primary spokesperson.

I can see it now in red states come 2014 if bloomberg keeps himself at the center of the issue (hes an ego maniac and cant help himself he should be smart and just provide the money to front groups)

He is the definition of the controlling know it all .0001%er who want government to literally control all aspects of your life:

No privacy- expansive police powers including illegal searches for any reason (stop and frisk)
Big Gulp bans
single vendor limited competition "public transportation"/taxi
not rich not ultra rich but fucking mega ultra supper duper rich from wallstreet

I can see people putting silhouettes of big gulps beside campaign sings of bloomberg backed candidates. For all the smart people around bloomberg why cant anyone see that his very visible presence is hurting his cause. He would prob be more successful providing and funding the various groups.

[jimmy the one]

11. re-read shumer

DonP: ..what the fuck does a guy like Schumer know, right? ..who to pay attention to.. anonymous voices on the intrerwebz, or leading Democrats like Collins and Schumer?

Shumer & Collins have the same voting weight as I do, ONE. Reread what schumer wrote again, reread it slowly this time & concentrate on the underlining: “The mayor of NY City putting ads against people in red states is not going to be effective,” Schumer said.
Duh, get it now? Bloomberg's ads are not going to be effective whether or not those 4 dem senators get reelected in those particular 4 red states - but they will serve a purpose that dems voting contrary to dem wishes on guncontrol policies are not going to get a free pass. DUH.

DonP: But you keep pumping Bloomberg like a hero and savior for gun control, as he writes checks against Dems and if the worse happens in 2014, you can always blame gun owning Democrats for your stupidity, you always do anyway.

Propagunda, bloomberg also writes checks for PRO GUNCONTROL democrats, how'd that slip past you? it didn't, you distort & suppress facts & truth... Which republicans has bloomberg come up against so far, since newtown? It's an off election year, at this point he's more concerned with finding guncontrol dem candidates, duh, dunno why this keeps going over big heads.

As far as collins I'm astounded, that one did slip past me, how a liberal could write such nonsense {the incredible hulk}, except that others agree, so maybe it was tongue in cheeky: What Collins does in the {a different} NRA column and, well, usually, is to trivialize serious subjects... at some point, Collins has an ethical obligation to do more than play the jester. She has a platform on the NY Times op-ed page. She should use it to do more than make fun of underemployed NRA lobbyists. I took a look at the most popular comments to Collins’ column, and apparently I am alone in my view that Collins is too light-hearted about a serious matter. Her readers wrote passionately against the NRA and the legislators who kowtow to them (and accept their campaign contributions), but not one called out Collins for her hilarious approach to gun fatalities. http://www.nytexaminer.com/2012/03/whats-the-matter-with-collins/

[sarisataka]

14. Speaking of DUH

Shumer & Collins have the same voting weight as I do, ONE. Reread what schumer wrote again, reread it slowly this time & concentrate on the underlining: “The mayor of NY City putting ads against people in red states is not going to be effective,” Schumer said.

Do you think that maybe, just maybe, the unspoken rest of "is not going to be effective" might be "getting Democrats re-elected" or something like that?
Let's do the math- Red State+(pro2A democrat)-(Bloomie funded attack ads+calls to cut off donations to said Democrats)= Republican win
Let's check our math
52 Dem Senators+46 Republican+2 Independent=100 yet 52-4(=48)+46+4(=50)+2=100 and for all purposes a deadlock if only those four change.
Since history tells us the President's party usually has a harder time at mid terms, each of those four Democrats could be critically important to preventing a Republican majority.
But if it helps you to sleep, keep claiming Bloomberg is on our side

bloomberg also writes checks for PRO GUNCONTROL democrats

OK, go ahead, claim my offer...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023001793#post9

[Eleanors38]

15. "Not going to be effective/not going to get a free pass"

Seems to be wholly contradictory.

The propaganda of Collins on gun-control is repetitive enough to over-supply irony to her critique of Bloomie; curious you missed that. Perhaps she is evolving on gun politics faster than you?

[jimmy the one]

12. uncle rino

eleanors, juxtaposed: Your answers.. (2) Has Gail Collins "gone over" to the GOPers?

Uncle, Uncle, you get a full point.

eleanors: 3 Nah, he {bloomberg} wants 'em defeated; any GOPer would.

Even RINO's? He would likely rather a different democrat in those red states, sure, but you can't say he wants them defeated & a progun republican put in. Elections are near 18 months away, & what happens today is so relatively immaterial to what happens 'electionally' in a year & a half. It'll be forgotten or moot to most all voters by then.
Bloomberg has only been a republican for 6 years of his 70 year life - most of it as a democrat, & so far 6 yrs as an independent. (Wiki) Bloomberg (born 1942), a lifelong member of the Democratic Party.. Democrat before seeking elective office, Bloomberg switched his party registration in 2001 to run for mayor as a Republican {& won}.. left the Republican Party {June 19, 2007}.. --RINO: He is socially liberal or progressive, supporting abortion rights, gay marriage, gun control, and amnesty for illegal immigrants..

eleanors: (1) Most Democrats support the RKBA.

You lose comparatively. BADLY Pew May1-5, 2013. 1,504 adults nationwide.MOE ± 2.9. "more important - protect right to own guns, or control gun ownership?"
right to own guns --Control ownership
may/13...... 48 ....................50 ......
feb/13 ........ 46 ....................50 .... http://www.pollingreport.com/guns.htm
Democrats 22 ...................73 (on edit, jan2013, same link)

this one too: Morning Joe/Marist Poll.March 2013. 1,219 adults nationwide.MOE±2.8.
"Do you think it is more important to protect gun rights or control gun violence?"
Protect gun rights- Control gun violence- Unsure
.... .... 44 .................. 53 ........... 3

[gejohnston]

13. that actually makes him what was once called a Rockerfeller Republican.

basically, he is a kinder gentler Rudy Guiliani. Liberals don't allow stop and frisk, send cops out of their jurisdictions to spy on religious minorities, and have their "private army", his words, beat the shit out of peaceful protesters.
Bloomberg is an authoritarian corporatist, doesn't matter what voter registration says.

[Eleanors38]

16. Sounds like a couple of push polls, there.

[jimmy the one]

17. bloomberg's donations to dems

sarisataka, xpost his prev link: Show me any verifiable support for Democrats against Republicans totaling $126k by Bloomberg and/or MAIG and I will donate $280 ($35*8) to the gun control group(s) of you choice spread over the remainder of this year to offset any of my money that is going to Republicans

Bloomberg made 6-figure donation to ARS NBC News.. Bloomberg made a personal six-figure contribution to Americans for Responsible Solutions, PAC run by former Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.) and her husband Mark Kelly. http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/02/11/16927831-bloomberg-made-six-figure-donation-to-giffords-led-group?lite

Independent candidate Angus King has essentially been leading the race the entire election cycle and got a big boost this weekend when NY Mayor Bloomberg and others gave a total of $1.75 million to the nonpartisan group Americans Elect helping King's campaign. Bloomberg, also an independent, gave $500,000. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/10/06/bloomberg-contribution-adds-to-maine-fiercely-independent-senate-race/
the president of the NRA, David Keene, traveled to Maine to endorse King's Republican rival, Charlie Summers.
.. I realize you can rebut that democrat candidate Dill suffered, but it was the better way to go since angus king generally votes with dems, was way ahead in polls, & subsequently voted for the recent GC.

2012 In Florida, Bloomberg has spent more than $2 million for Democrat Val Demings, a former police chief in Orlando, .. Demings - an African American police officer and politician from Florida - was the Democratic nominee for US House of Representatives in 2012. Her attempt to unseat the incumbent, Republican Daniel Webster, was unsuccessful http://www.nationaljournal.com/politics/bloomberg-aims-to-be-gun-control-counterweight-to-nra-20121103
Bloomberg’s Mayors Against Illegal Guns initiative focuses on state and federal gun laws, his new Independence USA super PAC is all about electing or defeating those who make the laws The most notable loss on Bloomberg’s list this year was Democrat Val Demings’ failure to oust conservative Rep. Daniel Webster.. The PAC invested $2.4 million in the race and Bloomberg personally contributed $2,500 to Demings,

various links: Bloomberg also has spent $440,000 in a New York House race to oppose Republican Rep. Ann Marie Buerkle... (Democrat) Maffei called on his opponent, Republican Buerkle.. Bloomberg will spend at least $10 million promoting moderate candidates, including Syracuse-area congressional candidate Dan Maffei, in the final weeks before Election Day,..Bloomberg backed Dan Maffei in his New York 25th Congressional district rematch with Ann Marie Buerkle, a Tea Party candidate and fervent opponent of gun control election. http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2012/10/nyc_mayor_michael_bloomberg_sa_1.html

Just make your first check out to the giffords group (ARS - I'm a member too), then second check to Brady Campaign (also a member), then to DNC, Obama, & the last two (you guessed it) MAIG! (dream on jimmy). And um, how much money are you donating to republicans per year, on average, sarisataka?

[sarisataka]

18. It may be splitting hairs

since most of those listed are pro gun control group donations. A quick read also seems to indicate individual Republicans are greater beneficiaries than Democrats, but as donations are not itemized that cannot be said with any assurance.

Nevertheless, I did not qualify my offer and Bloomie's support for Dan Maffei clearly covers my challenge.

Americans to Responsible Solution has received a $35 donation today. Every other week I will send $35 to the groups you listed; I can afford to spend at that rate.
A couple questions- as Obama is not running again do you really want me to send a donation to him? May I suggest instead sending it to the Democratic candidate who will run for Bachmann's seat? I may be moving into that district in the next few months.
Also your list only totals six, how would you like the other two donations to be used?

And um, how much money are you donating to republicans per year, on average, sarisataka?

Not any that I am aware of but the mythology is that every NRA member is supporting Republicans. By these actions I will more than offset any fraction of that $35 the NRA gets from me that is supporting Republican candidates and make sure I am backing Democrats whether they are pro-gun control or not.

I am not a single issue voter and do support reasonable gun control. Trouble is, I see many proposals that are not reasonable and lately many DUers that apparently are single issue voters.

[jimmy the one]

19. diogenes maybe can rest

sarisataka: Nevertheless, I did not qualify my offer and Bloomie's support for Dan Maffei clearly covers my challenge.

Have to admit I'm surprised, shocked even, since I presumed you'd find an escape hatch somehow, but you get the benny of the doubt even tho I am generally not gullible. There's no way of really knowing, but you get the benny of the doubt, & a bravo too.

Americans to Responsible Solution has received a $35 donation today. Every other week I will send $35 to the groups you listed; I can afford to spend at that rate.
A couple questions- as Obama is not running again do you really want me to send a donation to him?

Good point, I just thought it was his proposals which rekindled gun control earlier this year, & biden's, which qualified him. Change it to ARS then, & you can actually have a bit of best of both worlds, since he (giffords husband) evidently is a gunowner & says he supports rkba.

Also your list only totals six, how would you like the other two donations to be used?

Dang you are being neat, I'm taken aback. Six would be fine enough imo, tho if you insist go with ARS again. Thanks for being honest on here.

[sarisataka]

20. Deal

I have hope for ARS, as they are new enough to not have baggage, that it could be the group moderates from both camps rally around and finally get that reasonable legislation in place.

You have not convinced me that Bloomberg is not really a Republican with some liberal stances but fair is fair- he does support some Dems (and I never bet more than I can afford to loose )

[sarisataka]

21. Mission complete

Life delayed my timetable a bit, and yes it did cause me physical pain to send money to MAIG

On the down side, the issue has really gone no where. We have the ludicrous CO recalls on one side and the MAIG tour farce that seems to do more harm than good, no budget and a looming war on the horizon.

Hopefully someday we all wake up from this awful dream we are stuck in