Can Stand Your Ground create 'legal serial killers?'

[AmyStrange]

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AN OLD VIDEO, but still ask some interesting questions, especially the one concerning Zimmerman:

Can Stand Your Ground create 'legal serial killers?'
By Anna Gonzalez
updated 2:07 PM EDT, Mon July 15, 2013

"Florida's 'Stand Your Ground' law wasn’t used in the George Zimmerman trial, but the case has re-ignited criticism of the law regardless.

[...]

"Phillips also had this criticism about the law: 'What if we are in a situation where George Zimmerman could become the first legal serial killer? He’s got all these people that want him now - who want to attack him - and he’s able to, one by one, defend himself. That’s where we are headed with a law like Stand Your Ground... '"

http://www.hlntv.com/video/2013/07/15/stand-your-ground-serial-killer

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ETC (Edited To Change): Took out second paragraph of new story:
"Michael Dunn is charged with killing an unarmed, African-American teenager in Jacksonville, Florida. He could invoke the law for his defense. The attorney for Jordan Davis’ family talks about their reaction to the Zimmerman verdict. Are they afraid justice could be denied for their son?"

ALSO: "an" to "some" in first paragraph.
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[GreenStormCloud]

1. Not likely. A shooting still has to be self-defense before SYG is applied.

In Z's case he does have a lot of people saying that they will be hunting for him. In reality, almost all of them are hot air. If he does have another killing, it will have to be squeaky clean absolute self-defense with video recording and eyewitnesses. Maybe he should start wearing Gogle glasses when they come out.

[AmyStrange]

2. Agreed, but...

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well I really don't have a but, except it does create the perfect storm for him to at least (regardless of the evidence) kill a couple more people, which would technically making him one.

Just curious what other people think,

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[gejohnston]

4. definition of serial killer

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/serial-murder/serial-murder-1#two
I hate redefining words to create double speak.

[AmyStrange]

5. I agree with the FBI, but unfortunately...

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but most laypeople (and surprisingly many LEOs also) think it's three. But I appreciate your diligence. Very commendable,

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[AmyStrange]

36. Notice the FBI uses "serial murder"...

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instead of "serial killer". This is much more accurate,

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[gejohnston]

37. OK, so is there a point?

in everyday accepted language, the two are synonymous although inaccurate. So your local coyote and stray cat are serial killers. Hell, vegetarians kill plants while eating them, so Mr. Ed is also a serial killer. You kill thousands of bacteria with a bleach soaked paper towel.............

And none of them are created by SYG laws. If Zimmerman moves to Wyoming, and he is attacked a couple of times, did Wyoming's duty to retreat create a serial killer?

[AmyStrange]

40. I'm a serial killer, but not a serial murderer...

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FROM: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/shadow-boxing/201304/defining-serial-killer-so-much-confusion
"Despite the FBI's influence, its change in definition has not trickled down... "

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[gopiscrap]

76. Yeah but with an ignorant cracker jury

it wouldn't be hard to excuse white on people of color killings. I could see it easily happening in a bunch of states.

[gejohnston]

78. you didn't pay attention to the trial did you?

I had it livestream in my office.
an all black jury would have came to the same conclusion unless you believe:
all white people are racist or
black people won't vote based on the evidence and facts.
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2013/7/15/2534/37292/crimenews/Lawyers-Reacting-to-Zimmerman-Verdict
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2013/7/14/145748/759/Colo_News/The-Legacy-of-the-George-Zimmerman-Trial
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2013/7/11/22341/3139/crimenews/Benjamin-Crump-Who-Screamed-Doesn-t-Matter
You can watch the whole trial here, many Floridians watched it or know someone who has.
you can watch it all here, although the closing arguments cap it all.
https://www.youtube.com/user/GeorgeZimmermanTria1

[gejohnston]

3. no, just another clueless talking air head

Since, according to the evidence shown during the trial, Zimmerman had no ability to retreat when he shot Martin, therefore, SYG is not relevant. Anyone sticking to the "was told to stay in the car-shot him down like a rabid dog" are misinformed via the Parks and Crump law firm and the PR firm Julian Communications they hired to spread that disinformation, or simply dishonest themselves.

Dunn on the other hand, is completely different. He is an example of why most self defense claims fail in court, be it SYG state or duty to retreat state: It is bogus. Plus, he drove off from the scene.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57594232-504083/michael-dunn-fla-man-denied-bond-again-in-fatal-loud-music-dispute/

Zimmerman was not arrested because the evidence indicated that it was self defense after cops interviewing witnesses who called 911. Dunn, was promptly arrested when the cops found him.

Unarmed is often a misnomer. Why is "unarmed" a misnomer? In Martin's case, his fists and the sidewalk as weapons. 56 percent of all domestic murders in the US is by "unarmed" killers. More people are murdered each year with bare hands and feet than all of UK's murders combined.

[AmyStrange]

6. So, you don't think anyone will go after GZ...

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I kind of agree, he's probably safe, but what if people do start going after him and he kills a few people as a result? Is it possible that he could become a legal serial killer

Just curious. Not trying to start an arguement,

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[gejohnston]

7. there is more to the definiton than than that

serial killers commit murder and are almost always sociopaths looking for some kind of psychological gratification aka "getting off on it". So, it is still a misuse of the term.
But if one were to go there, are soldiers in war "legal serial killers" ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_killer

Sorry if it seemed like I was argumentative, media stupidity, and putting profits before truth, is one of my pet peeves.

There was a guy who owned a jewelry store in LA five gang members at different times. While California does have common law SYG (not that he had a chance to retreat. IIRC, CA allows counter attack in some cases, which Florida does not), it does have a common law duty to retreat within the home, which I think is messed up

[AmyStrange]

8. My definition...

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...is pretty liberal. My definition is in no way political. I don't believe in "technical" pretentiousness:

ANYONE (ANYONE AT ALL) who kills (whether justified or not) more than one person with around at least 24 hours between killings is a serial killer. Soldier, hitmen, drug cartel killers, LE (cops), pilots who drop bombs knowing they are killing people etc. etc.

Everything else defines a mass killer:

http://www.amystrange.org/SEK-WDWRK.html (What Do We Really Know?)

[oneshooter]

9. WOW!!! So now I am a serial killer, on top of being a Marine.

You just insulted a LOT of military with your definition. "pilots who drop bombs knowing they are killing people " Pilots drop bombs at specific targets, targets where others work or are based. If they don't believe that they could kill people(the enemy) by doing this then they are delusional. Pilots that shoot down other aircraft are "serial killers"!!!!

Try this list of "serial killers"

n.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_War_II_air_aces

[branford]

11. I don't know if I should be shocked, outraged or express pity.

Forget WWII aces, how about Presidents Washington, Adams, Jackson, Monroe, Grant, Teddy Roosevelt, Kennedy, Johnson, Bush '41, and others. Also a large number of current and former congressman and senators, governors and cabinet secretaries. The list of esteemed Americans is long and robust.

I may be a soft paper-pusher who sadly has little connection to military life, but the suggestion that our men and women in uniform who have repeatedly engaged in lethal combat on our behalf, often in god-forsaken places most Americans could not locate on a map, are common serial killers, is at best ludicrous, and less charitably, offensive on multiple levels.

I had family that were liberated from concentration camps by these "killers." The few who remain of the greatest generation must be weeping . . .

[AmyStrange]

17. If you want to think of soldiers as evil, fine...

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but before you accuse me of that, show me exactly where I wrote (in my definition) that being a "serial killer" is an evil thing?

It's only evil if it's done outside the "self-defense" model.

In short, a "killer" is someone who kills, plain and simple (according to my definition). A murderer is someone who kills illegally (outside the "self-defense" model). My definition isn't defining "serial murderers", but instead is defining "serial killers".

Or to put it another way, people who drop bombs during war and end up killing people, LEOs (Law Enforcement Officers) who kill also, and soldiers etc, are by definition "legal serial killers",

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[AmyStrange]

16. Not all serial killers are evil...

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Where did I say (in my definition) that being a "serial killer" is an evil thing?

It's only evil if it's done outside the "self-defense" model.

In short, a "killer" is someone who kills, plain and simple (according to my definition). A murderer is someone who kills illegally (outside the "self-defense" model). My definition isn't defining "serial murderers", but instead is defining "serial killers".

Or to put it another way, people who drop bombs during war and end up killing people, LEOs (Law Enforcement Officers) who kill also, and soldiers etc, are by definition "legal serial killers",

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[oneshooter]

46. So if I kill during an offensive operation, say a Hammer and Anvil, I am a

serial killer, but if I am defending the MLR I am a common killer?

Man that sucks big time!!!!

By your definition all bomber crews are "serial killers" because they fly offensive Operations.

[AmyStrange]

47. AGAIN... when did I say bomber crews were serial murderers?

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Even the FBI doesn't use the term "serial killer". Instead, it uses the correct term, "serial murder" instead:

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/serial-murder

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[oneshooter]

49. All Bomber Operations are offensive in nature

"It's only evil if it's done outside the "self-defense" model." This says that they are evil BECAUSE they fall outside the "self-defense" model."

Thus all bomber crews are "serial mass murderers" by your own definition.

Troopers involved in a Hammer and Anvil operation are in a offensive operation. Thus they too are"serial mass murderers" by your own definition.

Helicopter pilots, except for air evac, are involved in offensive operations again they are by your own definition "serial mass murderers."

This is your definition.

[AmyStrange]

50. Nope... you are using my definition to create your own def...

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not that there's anything wrong with that.

You say it's not self defense. I say it is. Defending your country...

You could also say, they're "hired guns" too, although that is probably less accurate,

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[AmyStrange]

48. If you want to think of soldiers as evil, fine...

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but before you accuse me of that, show me exactly where I wrote (in my definition) that being a "serial killer" is an evil thing?

It's only evil if it's done outside the "self-defense" model.

In short, a "killer" is someone who kills, plain and simple (according to my definition). A murderer is someone who kills illegally (outside the "self-defense" model). My definition isn't defining "serial murderers", but instead is defining "serial killers".

Or to put it another way, people who drop bombs during war and end up killing people, LEOs (Law Enforcement Officers) who kill also, and soldiers etc, are by definition "legal serial killers",

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[Jenoch]

51. What, EXACTLY, is your point you are attempting to make with this thread?

Why are you making this attempt at "defining serial killers'.

I understand that the term serial killer and serial murderer are different. Why are expending all of this energy to belabor the point?

Ok, a combat soldier does sometimes kill other combatants. If he kills more than one with a time in between, then I suppose your definition will hold true. But, what's the point you are attempting to make?

[AmyStrange]

53. That legal serial killers are possible...

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Originally, I was just interested in the question in my OP:

"Can Stand Your Ground Create legal Serial Killers?"

Some posters said No, there was no such thing as a "legal serial killer" or something like that.

It resulted in me trying to explain that not all serial killers are evil... etc. etc...

The thread got a little too semantic I think,

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[gejohnston]

54. since SYG has existed in US common law and statute

in different states at different times for the past 130 years, has it?

[AmyStrange]

56. Western Gunfighters...

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is what I think of when I think of SYG. That's at least 100 years old.

Then before that, were duels, this was a kind of legal issue that roughly kind of involved a little bit of SYG theory or something like that.
What do you think?

Weren't duels outlawed in the early days of the US?

Just curious, not trying to argue. Hopefully you can see that too,

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[gejohnston]

57. B westerns are not documentries

The real "western gunfigher" was contract killer, a thug, armed robber, or gambler just like their urban counterparts in Boston and New York. The only difference was that writers like Ned Buntline romanticized them, which lead to the old west myth that turned into Roy Rogers movies. Tom Horn didn't quick draw in the street. He shot you from a distance with a rifle. It was business, not machismo.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunfighter#Fact_vs._fiction
That said, the average person didn't wear or carry a pistol in the "old west". In urban areas, it was more common among middle and upper middle classes, especially women. People owned them, just generally did not carry them. Cowboys, at least the ones in my family tree in southern Wyoming, carried rifles while herding cattle and sheep, but handguns were "city guns" and the gun technology back then sucked. Handgun ownership was more common in the west than the rural south mostly because the south had stricter gun laws.

duels are mutual combat, which has nothing to do with self defense. The only documented old west duel in Wyoming were two drunk railroaders. They emptied their guns and went back to drinking. They both won. BTW, SYG never existed in Wyoming.

BTW, California, Washington state, and Illinois were the first SYG states. The "old west" like Arizona, New Mexico, Utah, are more recent. Wyoming still isn't.

[AmyStrange]

60. Lot's of great information...

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thank you so much for that,

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[Jenoch]

61. Just about anything is possible

if someone is willing to form a definition to fit the desired outcome.

[AmyStrange]

62. And what exactly desired outcome am I trying to form?

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I'm not the one defining all serial killers as evil.

There's a reason the FBI uses the term serial murder instead of serial killer:

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/serial-murder

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[Jenoch]

63. Who is defining

serial killers to include the military and LEO, (and other legallly justifiable homicides I suppose). You are making a distinction between serial 'killers' and serial 'murderers' but most people do not see the distinction. I'm back to asking you what really is your point in all of this?

[AmyStrange]

64. Yeah so?

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what's your point?

My point is that I think a legal serial killer is possible. You don't. Some other people agree with you and not with me. Fine.

I'm still not the one describing all serial killers as evil,

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[Jenoch]

67. I'm saying anything is possible if you

are willing to make up a definition that fits your desire.

You may not believe you are disparaging LEO and military with your little game here, but you are.

Note that I did not ask you for a clarification or explanation of your position.

Have a good day.

[AmyStrange]

68. I'm not redefining anything...

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it's the military and LEO that believe they are being disparaged. I NEVER said they were evil serial killers. They are the ones who think that, not me. The following definitions are MADE UP by Merriam Webster, NOT ME:

"Killer"
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/killer
"one who kills"

"kill"
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/kill
"To deprive of life : cause the death of"

"serial"
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/serial
"of, relating to, consisting of, or arranged in a series, rank, or row"

"series"
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/series
"a number of things or events of the same class coming one after another in spatial or temporal succession"

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[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

13. I would strongly suggest...

...a self-delete here.

A serial killer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_killer

...is: "A serial killer is traditionally defined as a person who has killed three or more people over a period of more than a month, with down time (a "cooling off period&quot between the murders, and whose motivation for killing is usually based on psychological gratification."

Notice the word "murder" in that definition. Not all homicides are murders.

Suicide - intentionally self-inflicted injury that results in death

Homicide - injuries inflicted by another person with intent to injure or kill, by any means. Excludes injuries due to legal intervention and operations of war. Justifiable homicide is not identified in WISQARS.

Legal Intervention - injuries inflicted by the police or other law-enforcing agents, including military on duty, in the course of arresting or attempting to arrest lawbreakers, suppressing disturbances, maintaining order, and other legal actions. Excludes injuries caused by civil insurrections.

Operation of War – Injuries to military personnel or civilians caused by war or civil insurrection, including those occurring during the time of war or insurrection and after cessation of hostilities. The number of deaths in this category ( i.e., ICD-9 codes E990-E999 for 1981 through 1998 and ICD-10 codes Y36.0-.9 for 1999 to present ) is small (e.g. 14 in 2003). These operation of war deaths are included in totals, but can not be reported separately using WISQARS.

http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/wisqars/fatal/help/definitions.htm

[AmyStrange]

19. I gave my defintion of a serial killers...

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which like I said was not the same as the FBI's definition.

The FBI's definition defines a serial killer as evil, while mine does not.

It's only evil if it's done outside the "self-defense" model.

In short, a "killer" is someone who kills, plain and simple (according to my definition). A murderer is someone who kills illegally (outside the "self-defense" model). My definition isn't defining "serial murderers", but instead is defining "serial killers".

Or to put it another way, people who drop bombs during war and end up killing people, LEOs (Law Enforcement Officers) who kill also, and soldiers etc, are by definition "legal serial killers",

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[Jenoch]

21. Whenever anyone carves a jack-o-lanturn

for 3 or more consecutive Halloween celebrations, they are, by my definition, "legal serial pumpkin killers".

Anyone can make up a definition for anything. Of course, that does not make the definition reality.

[AmyStrange]

23. True...

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but that also doesn't make it wrong either.

The FBI's definition of a "serial killer" says 2 or more, while many other definitions say "3 or more".

The reality is that the FBI's def is more accurate, while the second is also accurate. The FBI also includes murder in their def. I don't.

According to Merriam Webster :

"serial"
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/serial
"of, relating to, consisting of, or arranged in a series, rank, or row"

"series"
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/series
a number of things or events of the same class coming one after another in spatial or temporal succession

"killer"
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/killer
"one who kills"

"kill"
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/kill
"To deprive of life : cause the death of"

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[Jenoch]

24. You certainly chose an apt username.

[AmyStrange]

34. Why 3?

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the FBI's definition is 2 and so is mine. Why do you use 3 in your definition?

Not arguing, just curious,

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[Jenoch]

38. Ok, make it two.

Actually, the jack-o-lanturns should not be carved in consecutive years, so a Halloween should be without them so there is a gap.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

42. Regardless, have a great night...

...and thanks for stopping in.

[AmyStrange]

43. You too...

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thank you for stopping in too,

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[tumtum]

15. Thanks for pointing out that I was a serial killer in Vietnam.

Guess I was a serial killer in the first Gulf War also.

Thanks for insulting me, and the millions of other combat vets who served our nation with distinction.

[AmyStrange]

18. You were a legal serial killer...

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by my definition, but you weren't evil.

Please show me exactly where I wrote (in my definition) that being a "serial killer" is an evil thing?

It's only evil if it's done outside the "self-defense" model.

In short, a "killer" is someone who kills, plain and simple (according to my definition). A murderer is someone who kills illegally (outside the "self-defense" model). My definition isn't defining "serial murderers", but instead is defining "serial killers".

Or to put it another way, people who drop bombs during war and end up killing people, LEOs (Law Enforcement Officers) who kill also, and soldiers etc, are by definition "legal serial killers",

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[gejohnston]

26. "technical" pretentiousness is precise language

otherwise, had this guy died (other sources reported that he is a known pedophile, he obviously wasn't there for the TV) you would be equating this scared child to Ted Bundy. That is as disgusting as it is absurd.

http://www.news9.com/story/19858704/12-year-old-girl-shoots-intruder-during-home-invasion

[AmyStrange]

28. I'm not equating anything...

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because I didn't use the word murderer. If I had, then you would be right. I used the word killer.

Again, according to Merriam Webster :

"Killer"
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/killer
"one who kills"

"kill"
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/kill
"To deprive of life : cause the death of"

"serial"
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/serial
"of, relating to, consisting of, or arranged in a series, rank, or row"

"series"
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/series
"a number of things or events of the same class coming one after another in spatial or temporal succession"

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[Jenoch]

10. If what you suggest happens,

he still will not be a serial killer. There is no such thing as a 'legal serial killer'. If a cop ends up shooting more than 2 people in their career and they are justified shootings, that does not make them a 'legal serial killer'.

[AmyStrange]

20. By the FBI's definition yes...

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but by my definition, yes there is such a thing as a legal serial killer.

My definition of the word "killer":

Someone who kills, regardless of legality.

According to Merriam Webster :

"Killer"
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/killer
"one who kills"

"kill"
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/kill
"To deprive of life : cause the death of"

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[Jenoch]

22. See post #21.

[AmyStrange]

25. see post #23

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saying something is not true, don't automatically make it untrue,

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[Jenoch]

30. See post #24.

[AmyStrange]

31. If that's what you want to believe...

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fine, but I'm not the only one that thinks that way:

http://newstalkkgvo.com/are-cats-serial-killers/
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-animal-connection/201302/my-cat-is-serial-killer
http://gawker.com/5984650/there-is-a-possible-cat-serial-killer-on-the-loose-which-is-yknow-a-real-bad-sign
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/stonecold-serial-killers-domestic-cats-slaughter-billions-upon-billions-of-animals-in-us-every-year-8473643.html
http://www.timesnews.net/article/9050204/study-finds-house-cats-are-the-serial-killers-of-the-animal-world
http://iwastesomuchtime.com/on/?i=56921

etc. etc...

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[Jenoch]

32. Just because others also use

the term inaccurately does not mean yours is an accurate use of the term. Of course you are free to make up definitions as you wish, just be prepared for some ridicule.

[AmyStrange]

33. Actually...

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If you want to talk about accuracy, the original term (which the term "serial killer" comes from) was, "serial murderer" which is much more accurate than serial killer:

FROM: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_killer
(Etymology)
"The English term and concept of 'serial killer' is commonly attributed to former FBI Special agent Robert Ressler in the 1970s. Author Ann Rule postulates in her 2004 book Kiss Me, Kill Me that the English-language credit for coining the term serial killer goes to LAPD detective Pierce Brooks, creator of the ViCAP system. In his book Serial Killers: The Method and Madness of Monsters, criminal justice historian Peter Vronsky argues that while Ressler might have coined the term serial homicide within law in 1974 at Bramshill Police Academy in Britain, the terms serial murder and serial murderer appear in 1966 in John Brophy's book The Meaning of Murder. Moreover, Vronsky reports that the term serial killer does not appear in Anne Rule's seminal book on Ted Bundy, The Stranger Beside Me, published in 1980, when the term was not yet in popular use... "

If you want "serial killer" to mean "serial murderer", fine, and there's nothing wrong with that, but to ridicule me for using the term more accurately than most people do is not a problem I'm going to lose sleep over,

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ETR: removed an excess d

[AmyStrange]

35. ALSO, "Defining 'Serial Killer': So Much Confusion"

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Defining 'Serial Killer': So Much Confusion
Despite the FBI's influence, its change in definition has not trickled down.
Published on April 15, 2013 by Katherine Ramsland in Shadow Boxing
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/shadow-boxing/201304/defining-serial-killer-so-much-confusion

"In the Vancouver Sun recently, I saw this statement: 'A serial killer is defined as someone who commits more than three murders over a period that spans more than one month. For the most part, serial killers commit murder for some sort of psychological benefit.'

"I've seen similar definitions in many other media reports, despite the FBI's change in 2005 to a minimum of two murders with no reference to motive or timeframe. This is not surprising, considering the haphazard history of the term.

"The phrase, 'serial killer,' was first used in a book, The Complete Detective, in 1950, while serienmörder was coined in 1931 in Germany in reference to Peter Kürten... "

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[Jenoch]

39. You have spent way too much

time on this. I have and I have not spent much time at all. My only intention in participating in thread is to somehow demonstrate how silly I think your new definition is. I obviously have been unsuccessful in getting you to understand, but maybe others reading this thread will understand my point.

[AmyStrange]

41. There is such a thing as a "legal serial killer"...

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this was my point.

When you think about it, no one yet has proven there is no such a thing as a "legal serial killer". Why do you think the FBI doesn't use the term "serial killer", but rather uses the much more accurate term "serial murder?:

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/serial-murder

Newspapers and other sources are the ones who have really misused the term, but I digress,

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ETC: grammar

[Bay Boy]

27. By my definition, you are now a serial killer...

...you have killed spiders and mosquitos and even though the FBI (and the rest of the world) doesn't consider someone who kills spiders and mosquitos a serial killer, I do.

Heck that's fun to make up new definitions for words.

[AmyStrange]

29. So are lions, tigers, and cats...

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http://newstalkkgvo.com/are-cats-serial-killers/
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-animal-connection/201302/my-cat-is-serial-killer
http://gawker.com/5984650/there-is-a-possible-cat-serial-killer-on-the-loose-which-is-yknow-a-real-bad-sign
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/stonecold-serial-killers-domestic-cats-slaughter-billions-upon-billions-of-animals-in-us-every-year-8473643.html
http://www.timesnews.net/article/9050204/study-finds-house-cats-are-the-serial-killers-of-the-animal-world
http://iwastesomuchtime.com/on/?i=56921

etc. etc...

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[ileus]

12. No

Man these folks need to stop being so goofy-assed paranoid. The stuff they write out of irrational agenda driven fear isn't even funny anymore.

[AmyStrange]

45. Paranoid?

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I just think it's an interesting question,

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[jmg257]

14. Not for nothing - but if someone wants to attack someone else,

whether it is an attack against Zimmerman or somebody else?

Likely the response they get is one they bring on themselves.
If your are intentionally looking to attack someone, their ability to defend themselves via whatever means/laws may be something you should consider 1st.

[AmyStrange]

44. Thank you...

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for sharing w/o getting all semantic like,

d

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[Eleanors38]

52. You needn't worry about pulling down your own post..

...or being alerted on. If you have been on DU for any length of time you will realize some hard locked-in truths:

1. You can say anything derogatory you want about pro-2A DU folks with absolutely no fear of being H'd.

2. Anything which remotely passes for a similar "comeback" by pro-2A posters WILL be alerted and H'd.

3. There is no need for glancing, implied or academic-sounding redefinitions of wrong/evil-doing: I .E, wholesale smear & hatred is very much allowed without any need for intellectual contrivance.

4. Gun control was once discussed in one (1) forum, all views presented. Now, "guns" is discussed here, AND in the gun-control-only Castle Bansalot, AND the "meta" oriented GD where local and national gun "issues" are
allowed if "anti" gun, but severely limited if "pro" gun. See current ATAs for this double standard.

In other words, just let it on out. You gotta license to fly on this topic.

BTW, do you have an example of SYG laws resulting in a serial killer/murderer? Any at all?

[AmyStrange]

55. Thank you Eleanor

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I haven't any examples of SYG laws resulting in serial killer/ murderers yet, which is why this question caught my attention. I never thought of it before.

I'm also still trying to figure out how I could research this on the web.

This Zimmerman case seems like the makings of a possible perfect storm for this to actually happen, which will also be easy to follow and see what happens, because of the notoriety of Z,

d

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Again, thank you Eleanor

[Eleanors38]

58. As has been alluded to, Zimmerman has had many threats

on the Innertube; most of this is cyber-lynching and will not be acted upon. Should someone acted in their desires, he/she should be aware of the consequences. This is unlikely.

Serial killing suggests an affirmative action on the part of the killer in some numbers within some time space. A person who kills those who repeatedly attack him, cannot reasonably be termed a serial killer unless one seriously tortures sociological (and above all) psychological terms and definitions to lend a casual stigma to the desired victim. This is done daily in the three (3) "gun" discussion sites.

Please review the experience of the L.A. Shop owner who killed -- in succession -- several gang killers. Perhaps these thugs could be termed serial "killees" by taking affirmative action against someone who had a record of defending himself against murderous attacks? Seems silly but the way the social sciences have been brutalized, it's not beyond the realm of possibility.

Thanks for a civil exchange.

[AmyStrange]

59. You're welcome...

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LA shop owner? Have to look into that, and I like your term, "serial killees". Nice,

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[branford]

65. Here's one example of multiple self-defense shootings

Last edited Tue Aug 6, 2013, 02:13 PM - Edit history (1)

You might be interested in the case of James Walton from Dallas in 2007. He was a 70 year old man who separately and legally shot burglars (killed the first) at his business on two separate occasions in three weeks. The story only made national headlines because a reporter's, Rebecca Aguilar, interview with him was so hostile it lead to her termination and resulted in a lawsuit which she lost in 2010. (links below)

It is not too uncommon for thieves and burglars to repeatedly target properties, businesses or individuals who appear to be undefended, lucrative or permit (criminally) easy access. Small businesses with high value inventory like mom and pop jewelry stores in marginal neighborhoods are a perfect example. From time to time, a business owner legally shoots a criminal and then is forced to do so again (and sometimes yet again) at a later time. These shooting sometimes lead to the death of the criminal, but the rate of survival after being shot is quite high given the response time of local EMS and modern emergency room techniques. When covered by the news, if at all, these stories are generally considered local are often in the crime section of the local paper. If you are really interested in researching the matter, I would humbly suggest contacting a local newspaper or television new station in a decent sized city where guns are culturally and legally accepted (e.g., Dallas, Houston, Atlanta, Charlotte, etc.)

http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfairpark/2007/10/kdfw_suspends_rebecca_aguilar.php

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=cdb_1192424992

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/state&id=5707448

http://wwwtmrcom.blogspot.com/2007/10/dallas-reporters.html

[AmyStrange]

66. Thank you branford...

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I also think that this is not an easy subject to research, which is why Zimmerman (since he will probably be watched pretty carefully from now on, especially if he shoots someone else and) will be easier to track and see if he does become a "legal serial killer", but I will
take your advice and start a google-alert for the term "self defense" and see if any names get repeated over the year,

d

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Again, thank you branford

[gopiscrap]

69. I am sure it already has

it's just that our intellectual laziness has precluded us from researching it!

[AmyStrange]

70. Spot on...

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thank you g

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[Jenoch]

71. You can create any scenario you wish,

if only you create any definition you wish.

[AmyStrange]

72. Blame Webster Not Me...

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those damn dictionary people are the ones you should be lecturing, not me,

d

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[Jenoch]

73. What lecture? I'm simply pointing out a fact.

[AmyStrange]

74. You are NOT pointing out facts...

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you are saying the definitions I use are false. They are not. They are from the dictionary.

You have a beef with my definitions, blame the dictionary, not me,

d

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[Jenoch]

75. Keep telling yourself that and you can convince yourself of anything.

[AmyStrange]

77. Same to you...

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we can go on like this forever.

What exactly is your obsession with pretending my definitions are fake?

You can say you're not pretending, but you still haven't proved that my source (the dictionary) is wrong, and that is the bottom line here,

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[Jenoch]

79. Give me your definition with a link, if you choose to.

[AmyStrange]

80. See Reply #68 above...

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I've posted those links at least a couple times already,

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[Jenoch]

81. Those are separate words, not the term that you are using

for this thread. You are making up a definition for a two word term to fit your terms. I'm tired of this exchange by the way, reply or not, I don't care.

[AmyStrange]

82. That's your opinion...

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and doesn't prove that I'm wrong.

Why shouldn't I reply? It's only polite to respond to those who reply to my thread,

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P.S. love ya anyway Jenoch