ATF's Operation Fearless one year later

[gejohnston]

A prosecutor has dropped criminal cases against three more defendants charged in an undercover ATF sting in Milwaukee last year — the latest setback for the beleaguered operation.

snip

Among the screw-ups and failures uncovered by a Journal Sentinel investigation: Agents hired a brain-damaged man to promote the store and set up drug and gun deals, then turned around and arrested him on federal counts. Three government-owned guns, including a machine gun, were stolen and the undercover storefront was ripped off of $40,000 in merchandise. The machine gun remains missing.

In the end, authorities arrested four of the wrong people and three were charged — including a man who was in federal prison at the time of the sale. Those charges were quickly dismissed, with two cases dropped the same day charges were filed.

Now prosecutors have dropped charges against defendants in three cases that hinged on confidential informants

http://www.jsonline.com/watchdog/watchdogreports/3-more-defendants-walk-in-botched-atf-sting-b9967227z1-219138791.html

The machine gun is an M-4 carbine. Moral of that story is don't leave guns sitting on the back seat in plain view.
http://www.jsonline.com/watchdog/watchdogreports/leads-on-gun-stolen-from-atf-fizzled-out-ih9b3i8-201363991.html

[Loudly]

1. Are you cheering the failure to defeat illegal gun commerce?

Is your point that ineptitude should be sufficient reason not to try?

[krispos42]

2. When a story is posted about how a criminal killed somebody with a gun...

...is that cheering the failure to defeat illegal gun commerce? Is that poster's point that ineptitude should be sufficient reason to not try?

[Tuesday Afternoon]

6. ...and crickets.

[krispos42]

7. Hmph.

That's his most recent post, too.

looks like me rapier of logic has a multi-day lifespan...

[DonP]

8. Be nice, it's a rough week for the gun control "fans"

The Harvard study has a lot of them in a blue funk, some of their favorite new laws in NJ got vetoed and their hero Bloomberg has had his ass handed to him in court several times in a row now.

On top of that violent crime continues to drop and ruin the "More guns = more violence" meme.

I'm sure we want to be as kind and understanding to them as thy are to us.

If needed -

[krispos42]

9. The best way to reduce violence is to do things that would also improve the standard of living...

...and enable personal achievement of all Americans.

Legalizing pot would do far more for society than banning semi-automatic rifles (or ones that have certain secondary features like pistol grips), and the effect would be far more immediate, with far few real political risks.

People can complain about the power of the NRA all they want. The NRA does not compare, in terms of broadness of influence and financial backing, to Big Pharma, Big Tobacco, Big Brewers, Big Distillery or the private prison industry.

The gun issue motivated gun owners because guns are real, physical objects that people will politically mobilize for, whereas the non-gun-owners are far less driven, because nobody is forcing them to own a gun against their will. They have to do exactly NOTHING to continue to not own a gun.

The abstract concepts of Big Pharma and the others I mentioned fighting politically to prevent losing market share are largely lost on people on both sides of the political spectrum.

Because there is not a militant pro-pot movement backed by industrialized pot growers, the pot users and their advocates have little political power. No pot user seriously ever has to worry about NOT getting pot from somebody, or not being able to grow it themselves. Gun owners are rightly concerned about not being able to buy guns in the future; you can't grow an AR-15 in your basement with some potting soil and a few grow lights. Pot users... not so much.

So the anti-pot movement has major backers with deep pockets, and no serious, militant, motivated opposition. At least, not until very recently. Finally there are some major victories for legalization, but these are all very recent.

While there are few people fighting either very hard for or against pot, there are major financial and political forces at work to keep it illegal. And thus, it stays illegal.


There is an entire array of things that we can do to reduce violence (including, by extension, gun violence) that do not involve passing a single gun law, and that would not only reduce violence but also improve the health and well-being of the people of the Unites States.

Of course, gun laws need to be tweaked and refined; it's part of the continual process of lawmaking. But major changes? Make them other places.

[gejohnston]

10. add to that,

the pot growers prefer the status quo. If it were legal, they would have to start paying taxes, obeying environmental regulations, and watch their price per yield drop.

[krispos42]

11. They'll survive

Think of all time and money they'll save by NOT having to hire a defense team or worry about joining a prison gang for protection.

If independent farmers can do it with veggies, they can do it with pot.

They'll have to compete with people growing stuff in their own basement, so I imagine that there will be Big Pot industry that sells to "run of the mill" users that don't have the drive or means to grow their own stuff, and a strong cottage industry of passionate hobbyists and small-scale boutique shops.



I don't think pot prices should be artificially inflated; let the market work and revisit the issue in a few years. See if anything needs to be done then.

[gejohnston]

3. my point is

that the agency still has an institutional culture that needs to be dealt with. The ATF was once part of of the IRS. From 1920-1972 (although it was part of the FBI for a few months in 1933) the IRS used it as a dumping ground for racists, sexists, idiots, and other undesirables. When it became a separate agency within the Treasury Department in 1972, they gave them guns and badges but did not address the quality of their force. I don't picture the current director having what it takes to fix the problem. That isn't to say there isn't good professional ATF agents, there certainly are. They just don't happen to be in charge.

[DevonRex]

13. Hello. I am retired ATF. Personally, I am offended at your disgusting generalization.

At the same time, I could tell you stories about individual people at the agency when I was there that might fit one or two of the categories you slung at people there now.

It was nice of you to say there are a few good ones.

[spin]

4. I don't believe gun owners feel that there should be no law enforcement efforts to stop ...

the straw purchase of firearms and the smuggling of such weapons to the inner streets of our cities.

But we want to see an effective law enforcement agency that will actually fight gun smuggling rather than unnecessarily harass gun store owners and gun collectors. Of course the ATF has to monitor gun stores to insure that they follow the law but some suspect the object of the ATF is to drive honest gun store owners and dealers out of business.

It seems that one of the major problems with the ATF is poor management. Also I personally feel the agency is underfunded and this limits its ability to curb straw purchases and smuggling.

It would seem logical to me that both gun rights supporters and gun control advocates would support major improvements and beater financing for this law enforcement agency. Currently the ATF has only about 5000 employees and a budget of just 1.2 billion dollars in 2012.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

5. +1

[sir pball]

12. I'm just facepalming the literally deadly levels of incompetence here

Ineptitude isn't necessarily a reason not to make every effort to shut down illegal firearms commerce, but this goes beyond simply failing and going back to square one - a freaking fully-automatic weapon walked and hasn't been recovered; despite myths to the contrary, they're quite difficult to come by legally let alone on the black market; the release of even one of those "into the wild" isn't square one, but square -10. Absent the theft, I just find it hilarious. And unlike F&F, if this gun does turn up in a crime (and it will be quite apparent if it does), the agents involved should have some serious 'splainin to do.

[DevonRex]

14. I wouldn't read it that way. IMO these types of operations are bound to

create more problems than they're worth. From my experience. This article highlights those problems.

Now that ATF finally has a director hopefully things will tighten up. For everyone's benefit.