First the head of INTERPOL

[gejohnston]

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/exclusive-westgate-interpol-chief-ponders-armed-citizenry/story?id=20637341

now the Chief of Police in Detroit

Detroit— If more citizens were armed, criminals would think twice about attacking them, Detroit Police Chief James Craig said Thursday.

Urban police chiefs are typically in favor of gun control or reluctant to discuss the issue, but Craig on Thursday was candid about how he’s changed his mind.

“When we look at the good community members who have concealed weapons permits, the likelihood they’ll shoot is based on a lack of confidence in this Police Department,” Craig said at a press conference at police headquarters, adding that he thinks more Detroit citizens feel safer, thanks in part to a 7 percent drop in violent crime in 2013.

Craig said he started believing that legal gun owners can deter crime when he became police chief in Portland, Maine, in 2009.

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20140103/METRO01/301030038#ixzz2pNqIMS6P
To me it always seemed almost self evident.

[Eleanors38]

1. I think the jury is out on proof that CC will result in falling crime rates.

But as a means of personal protection, CC is of great benefit.

I wonder if anyone is working on a statistical model to measure CC's effects in various crime rates. That has to be a bear of a problem.

[gejohnston]

2. I doubt any such thing is provable

measuring correlation is easy, causes and effect is something entirely different. Speaking of correlation, this one measures lead in gasoline and violent crime going back to the 1930s in the US and different decades in other countries.
http://philebersole.wordpress.com/2013/03/12/lead-poisoning-and-violent-crime/
Many conservatives clutch their pearls when I say that I think the decrease in corporal punishment contributes to the lower violence rate.

[spin]

7. Legal concealed carry does not appear to have increased the crime rate. ...

The violent crime rate in our nation has fallen to levels last seen in the late 1960s.

Of course this most likely is due to proactive police work.

[Eleanors38]

8. If a study was made to prove one way or another...

it would, it seems, depend in some way on criminals' perceptions and their reactions to them.

[spin]

10. I found this somewhat interesting. ...

CDC Study: Use of Firearms For Self-Defense is ‘Important Crime Deterrent’
July 17, 2013 - 9:54 AM

(CNSNews.com) – “Self-defense can be an important crime deterrent,”says a new report by the Centers for Disease Control (CDC). The $10 million study was commissioned by President Barack Obama as part of 23 executive orders he signed in January.

“Studies that directly assessed the effect of actual defensive uses of guns (i.e., incidents in which a gun was ‘used’ by the crime victim in the sense of attacking or threatening an offender) have found consistently lower injury rates among gun-using crime victims compared with victims who used other self-protective strategies,” the CDC study, entitled “Priorities For Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violence,” states.

***snip***

The report expresses uncertainty about gun control measures, stating that “whether gun restrictions reduce firearm-related violence is an unresolved issue,” and that there is no evidence “that passage of right-to-carry laws decrease or increase violence crime.” It also stated that proposed “gun turn-in programs are ineffective.” - See more at: http://cnsnews.com/news/article/cdc-study-use-firearms-self-defense-important-crime-deterrent#sthash.qFARd9sI.dpuf

[DonP]

11. Well, that's inconvenient for some folks

First, we have the ongoing meme that the NRA has blocked all CDC studies.

Second, the study was commissioned by our President, so it's hard to say the NRA cooked the books on it.

Third, I need to bookmark this page and that study for future reference in threads.

Funny how that study never seems to come up in the news or in GD threads?

[spin]

12. There were two other studies that seems to apply to the situation but one is somewhat dated ...

First the dated survey which predates "shall issue" concealed carry in Florida. Be aware that it will be criticized due to the source but despite my efforts, I can't find a link to the survey that allows me to copy text on my IPad which I am using for this post.

The Armed Criminal in America
by Paul H. Blackman

FEAR of the armed citizen and the threat of tough punishment for using a gun (or other weapons) in committing a violent crime are significant factors in both reducing and deterring crime, according to the results of a survey of imprisoned felons conducted by Professors James D. Wright and Peter H. Rossi.

Through in-depth interviews with 1,874 imprisoned felons conducted between August, 1982, and January, 1983, the government-funded researchers delved into the deep-seated attitudes of criminals on the questions of weapons choice, deterrence, attitudes toward "gun control," criminal history, and firearms acquisition. The prisoners, studied under a grant from the National Institute of Justice of the U.S. Justice Department, were incarcerated in Arizona, Florida, Georgia, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Nevada and Oklahoma.

***snip***

Fifty-six percent of the felons surveyed agreed that "A criminal is not going to mess around with a victim he knows is armed with a gun;" 74% agreed that "One reason burglars avoid houses when people are at home is that they fear being shot."

A 57% majority agreed that "Most criminals are more worried about meeting an armed victim than they are about running into the police." In asking felons what they personally thought about while committing crimes, 34% indicated that they thought about getting "shot at by police" or "shot by victim."
http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/articles/2003/the-armed-criminal-in-america.aspx?s=%22crime%22&st=&ps=

I apologize for the fact that I can't find a liberal source for this study but perhaps that is understandable.

However I can provide a link to the study and the pertinent questions and answers are on pages 119 and 120. https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/Digitization/104293NCJRS.pdf

The second study is far more recent. Once again I fear it will receive little mention from the liberal media.

An examination of the effects of concealed weapons laws and assault weapons bans on state-level murder rates

Mark Giusa*
[...]

Applied Economics Letters
Volume 21, Issue 4, 2014, pages 265- 267
Available online: 26 Nov 2013
DOI: 10.1080/13504851.2013.854294

ABSTRACT
The purpose of the present study is to determine the effects of state-level assault weapons bans and concealed weapons laws on state-level murder rates. Using data for the period 1980 to 2009 and controlling for state and year fixed effects, the results of the present study suggest that states with restrictions on the carrying of concealed weapons had higher gun-related murder rates than other states. It was also found that assault weapons bans did not significantly affect murder rates at the state level. These results suggest that restrictive concealed weapons laws may cause an increase in gun-related murders at the state level. The results of this study are consistent with some prior research in this area, most notably Lott and Mustard (1997).
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/13504851.2013.854294?journalCode=rael20

I firmly believe we need more quality peer reviewed research into this issue.

It does seem logical to me that criminals would fear mugging armed citizens on the street. A street criminal looks for the weakest member of the herd as his victim. He usually relies on his physical size or a weapon such as a knife or handgun to intimidate his victim and insure his compliance. If he picks a victim and finds himself looking at the barrel of a legally concealed handgun after the victim draws it, he will probably run. In the future he may be more hesitant to attack a person on the street or more careful when he selects a target. He may also tell other street criminals of his experience.

But then I am not a criminal and lack that mindset.

[gejohnston]

13. On the first one,

it is from a DoJ funded study by James Wright and Robert Rossi. The resulting book is a good read.
James D. Wright and Peter H. Rossi (1986). ARMED AND CONSIDERED DANGEROUS: A Survey of Felons and their Firearms. Aldine De Gruyter.
It isn't a "liberal" source, nor is it a "conservative" source.

[spin]

14. True, but the link I provided that described the report ...

is definitely from a conservative site. I do my level best to avoid using conservative sites to back up my views but sometimes it's damn near impossible. It's a lot like trying to find a report on the Fox News website that supports "ObamaCare."

[Starboard Tack]

3. And nicotine is a great cough suppressant, so keep on smoking.

Makes one wonder if you people ever learn anything from history. Are you fatalists or ostriches, I wonder. So sad.

[gejohnston]

4. nicotine is actually an

Insecticide, the plant's defense from being eaten alive. Tobacco is also a sacred plant among many Native Americans.

[Starboard Tack]

5. And the band played on!

[gejohnston]

6. what evidence from

History is there?

[Eleanors38]

9. The moral sweep of history don't need no everdence.