Is this the kind of society you really want to live in?

[Starboard Tack]

Where a guy who is pissed at having to move back in with mom, decides to walk around the neighborhood at 5.30am firing his AK-47. Drunk!

A Deltona man told deputies he was trying to release some built-up anger Tuesday morning when he fired off multiple rounds from an AK-47 rifle while walking around his neighborhood, Volusia County deputies said.

Frederick Wenzel IV said he was upset because he’s 28 and had to move back in with his parents, so he drank several beers before taking a walk with his firearm in tow, according to a sheriff’s charging affidavit. Multiple residents of homes on Joyner Drive told deputies they could hear the gunshots and a man yelling about 5:30 a.m.

http://www.news-journalonline.com/article/20140916/NEWS/140919516/1025?Title=Drunk-Deltona-man-fires-AK-47-multiple-times-in-neighborhood-officials-say&tc=ar

Yeah, I know, it's an isolated incident and he was arrested. Of course, every incident is isolated in some respects. Like Hiroshima was isolated from Nagasaki, which were both isolated from America.
What's wrong with guys like this, getting drunk and shooting up the 'hood, when they should be happy living with mom, having family fun at the range.

[Duckhunter935]

1. I would prefer

He have a good paying job with full single payer health and mental health services. it would also be nice to have gun ranges available to safely fire semi-automatic rifles in a safe manor. It might also help to limit the consumption to excess of alcoholic beverages.

[Starboard Tack]

8. We would all prefer the healthcare, I think.

Not so sure about the rest.
So, are you basically OK with this guys behavior and we should put all the blame on a faulty system?
Do you think a little range time would have been the best solution? Help him blow off steam and keep him away from the booze?

[Duckhunter935]

9. "So, are you basically OK with this guys behavior"

did I say that, no. Please do not tell me how I think. I think without the excess consumption of alcohol, a good health care system that would allow for better employment this would have never happened. He could have just went out, got drunk and killed some people with a car and nobody would have said a thing.

[Starboard Tack]

11. I didn't tell you how you think. I asked some questions.

And you have now responded, letting us know exactly what you think. Thanks.
Giving guys like this a pass, by sloughing off responsibility.
You really think nobody would've said a thing if he'd gotten behind the wheel and killed someone? Maybe where you live, but I doubt that.

What fantasy state do you live in?

[Duckhunter935]

19. Drunk drivers

Kill every day, never makes the news. Maybe local but not national. Who gave him a pass? I just do not blame the gun. There are a chain of causes that would have prevented this. Alcohol being a major one.

[Starboard Tack]

20. I didn't blame the gun either, but you are happy to blame the alcohol

and a host of other things like health care, lack of shooting ranges, etc. How about blaming the asshole with the gun? And holding HIM responsible?

[Duckhunter935]

21. He is

[pipoman]

2. Which one is the larger issue? The gun or the booze?

[Duckhunter935]

3. booze

[Starboard Tack]

7. The combination.

If we want to stop shit like this happening, then tough sanctions should be enforced. I've seen DUI's get 2 years jail time, without having an accident or hurting someone and losing their licence for 5 years. This guy should get at least that.

[hack89]

12. Enforcing existing laws is always a good idea.

why do you think anyone here would disagree about that?

[Starboard Tack]

13. I wouldn't think anyone would disagree with that.

I also didn't think anyone would be dismissing it as a problem with alcohol and healthcare and availability of shooting ranges. That kinda surprised me. Gun owners don't usually look for a "nanny state" solution when fellow gun owners go off the reservation, but our friend Duckhunter wants to blame everything except this guys relationship to his guns.
I can understand a young guy being frustrated and needing to "blow off some steam", but how he chose to do that is the subject of the OP. Punishing him is one thing. Getting to the cause of the problem is another, and I don't think the cause is lack of health care or lack of shooting ranges. It's about being a responsible member of society, who doesn't resort to this kind of behavior, and now it's about how that society responds.

[hack89]

14. Alcohol abuse is an enabler of many social ills

not just gun violence. From suicide, domestic violence, child abuse, traffic deaths, premature deaths due to illness, etc etc alcohol is the root cause of much pain and suffering.

So it is accurate to say that given a choice, a focus on alcohol abuse would be more beneficial to society and save more lives. Especially when you consider that the majority of gun deaths are suicides and alcohol is involved in 25% of all suicides and alcoholics have a suicide rate nearly 100 times greater than the general population.

On a personal note, where I live alcohol kills many more people, especially teenagers, than guns. Shootings are extremely rare - car crashes involving alcohol are a common occurrence.


As to your post, society should react by enforcing the law.

[gordianot]

4. I know of at least two liquor stores that sell firearms. How's that for onestop shopping.

A Palin Paradise not in Alaska.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

5. If they sell...

...smokes too, that's the ATF trifecta.

[gordianot]

6. Never thought of it that way you are right!

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

10. Happy to be of service

[Eleanors38]

15. Like "Liquor Guns" in Uvalde, Texas?

[ileus]

16. I have a feeling there's a reason he was being forced back to his mothers.

Last edited Fri Sep 19, 2014, 03:29 PM - Edit history (1)

Once I packed up my SKS and left home, I never moved back in. (Bought the SKS at roses for 79 bucks)

Of course we still go back to the home place (80 acres) and shoot several times a year with the family (my brother and his grandkids)


I recommend not drinking of doing drugs (something I don't do, and have never done) that kind of stuff causes you to do stupid things. Hopefully my children will learn from my great example, like I learned from my bad parents example.


Have fun out there, remember self defense is just one part of what owning firearms is all about. Try collecting, hunting, plinking and competition to become a well rounded firearm owner.

[krispos42]

17. Nice comparison to atomic weapons use there.

Really helpful. I mean, Hitler was an isolated incident too, why don't you bring up him?

[Starboard Tack]

18. Thanks! I thought I'd nip that meme in the bud.

I wouldn't call Hitler an incident, though. More of an extended event. Incidents tend to be more momentary events in my book.
Anyway, thanks for joining in. Any thoughts on the OP?

[otohara]

22. Pew, Pew, Pew...

Merika

If I weren't disabled I would move to Japan and live out the rest my life in the house my husband
grew up in because we treat each other like shit in this country and when that isn't good enough, pew,pew,pew....

[yeoman6987]

27. I find it odd that you want to bolt out of here

Yet we have millions running across the border every year. I think as a whole we don't appreciate how good we have it. I have been to 47 countries and lived in 3 for at least 2 years and would never want to leave this great country warts and all. The border works both ways for those who can find there perfect country. Good luck because you will never find it.

[AtheistCrusader]

23. Multiple laws broken.

For starters, being in possession of a firearm while intoxicated.
Brandishing.
Discharging a firearm inside city limits.

For starters. All illegal. As they should be. probably some bonus charges unrelated to the firearm too, noise ordinance, drunken-disorderly/disturbing the peace, etc.


So, no, given the veritable wall of laws he ran face-first into, I think the American populous long ago answered your question, by crafting a society in which that behavior is not tolerated.

[Starboard Tack]

24. Right.

Wonderful craftsmanship.

[AtheistCrusader]

25. I think it's great.

We can always discuss whether certain laws need tweaking, sentence adjustments, etc, or if maybe we need some new ones to curb unexpected new ways in which bad behavior impacts other people, but generally I like the balance of permissiveness/prohibition here.

I like being able to own guns. I don't use them in nefarious ways, like most gun owners (More than 90 million americans). I like being able to drink. I don't drink, but I like the option.

I enjoy considerable levels of freedom to do what I choose, and that carries only responsibility to act in ways that do not harm others. I like that. I think that's the way it should be. To prevent episodes like what happened in the OP, one would have to construct a society in which things are banned outright, such as imbibing judgment-impairing liquors, or removing damage-amplifying instruments like firearms. I don't think that's the American way to go about life, so I'm quite content to live in that sort of society that you identified, one in which the intrepid loser in the OP is going to sit behind bars for some time.

Works for me.

[Starboard Tack]

26. There is no perfect society

Freedom of choice is wonderful. The problems are not with the freedoms, but with the choices. Too many people making bad choices contributes to social breakdown. Draconian laws are not the answer. Parenting and education are sorely inadequate.

[Rocky888]

28. He must be white

Or he would be dead!

[Travis_0004]

29. Good news. He doesnt have to worry about living with his parents for a while.

[mwrguy]

30. That is Libertarian Gun Nut Utopia