Welcome to the I-594 "common sense background checks"

[virginia mountainman]

You know when word gets out that it is much more than background checks, there will be a lot of very pissed off voters. And as with most gun control laws, it simply will not apply to criminals... It is settled law that "complying" with registering a criminal's gun amounts to "self incrimination"...The supreme court said so in "Haynes vs U.S."



But not to worry, technically, it will be so easy to become a felon under the new law that not many gun owners will be able to vote

[KT2000]

1. the initiative is not the law

The legislature will write the law when they go into session so I wouldn't have a fit about it yet. They will fix what may be problematic as they do with all initiatives that become law.

[ManiacJoe]

6. The initiative IS the law.

The WA legislature is not allowed to change it for at least one, maybe two, years.

I-594 is a very bad implementation of a good idea. Unfortunately all those TV ads were very misleading about it.

[virginia mountainman]

7. The only way they can win..

Is to outright lie and deceive...

[KT2000]

9. the law

http://lawfilesext.leg.wa.gov/biennium/2013-14/Pdf/Initiatives/Initiatives/INITIATIVE%20594.pdf

[ileus]

2. It's hard to tell what all this law will have in it's final form of life.

Probably some kind of "existing" owner background check for every firearm owned.

[krispos42]

3. What state is this? n/t

[virginia mountainman]

4. Washington State Nt

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

5. confusion n/t

[KT2000]

8. here is the law

which makes this diagram incorrect and misleading. Please note the exemptions of household members, relatives, participation in competitions etc.

http://lawfilesext.leg.wa.gov/biennium/2013-14/Pdf/Initiatives/Initiatives/INITIATIVE%20594.pdf

[virginia mountainman]

10. How is it misleading? Do you understand what a transfer is??

Your link BACKS UP the chart BTW....

[KT2000]

11. no it doesn't

look at the first tier - handing someone a gun, without detailing the circumstances that could very well fall under the exceptions.
The chart is meant to inflame, not impart actual information.

[clffrdjk]

12. You obviously didn't look at the chart.

Which exemption does it not cover?

[KT2000]

13. first tier

does not indicate any circumstances such as those found in Section3, 4, a through c.
You can use the link I previously noted up thread to read the initiative.

[clffrdjk]

14. I followed your link and read all the exemptions.

I could not see one that was missed by the chart. Please be specific, what senario is not covered or is inacuratly represented by the chart?
Do you not know how to read a flow chart, or is it the text of the law you are having trouble with?

[KT2000]

16. you are right

the exemptions are noted.

[sarisataka]

15. I read all 16 pages of the law

and it appears the chart is accurate.

Yes a spouse/domestic partner is exempt and you can let someone else shoot your gun at a licensed firing range.

However if I was on a friend's property and we were shooting targets and he asked to try my gun, according to the link and the flowchart we would be guilty of at least a gross misdemeanor unless we get a background check completed.

Actually the way the law is written, it would be an equal offense to let an adult child shoot the gun unless it was being given as a gift (a "temporary" gift would not be bona fide so therefore illegal), we are at a range or competition or hunting. The chart correctly reflects this as well.

Edit> actually I read it wrong and found the error on the flowchart. Per Sec 3 (4) (f) (ii) letting another adult shoot my gun, even on an established range would be illegal unless I always keep the gun at that range or we are practicing for a competition.

[KT2000]

17. please note mea culpa

up thread.
I would hope that your friend had previously passed a background check if he was also shooting on his property. If he had, you would be able to let him use your gun.
If you are at a range with a friend it is likely he/she would have already passed a background check.

The point of the initiative is to make sure guns are used only by people who have passed a background check.

[sarisataka]

18. I don't live in WA

So it is no issue for me.

It is a noble effort at a worthy goal but does have some flaws. I don't think it is bad beyond repair; perhaps a small tweak to the definition of transfer and it would be something most gun owners would fully support.

Thanks for noting your error. It shows character that is all too rare these days

[benEzra]

19. No, I think that would be a crime even if your friend had passed a check the same morning.

"I would hope that your friend had previously passed a background check if he was also shooting on his property. If he had, you would be able to let him use your gun."

As I understand it, even if your friend had passed a background check for a purchase of a different gun---even that same morning---that wouldn't count, because the law doesn't just require passing a background check; it requires transfer through a licensed gun dealer as if the dealer were selling that gun to the transferee.

I-594 isn't just about a background check; it is about registering all transfers via Form 4473, as I read it.

From the law:

(3) Where neither party to a prospective firearms transaction is a licensed dealer, the parties to the transaction shall complete the sale or transfer through a licensed dealer as follows:

(a) The seller or transferor shall deliver the firearm to a licensed dealer to process the sale or transfer as if it is selling or transferring the firearm from its inventory to the purchaser or transferee, except that the unlicensed seller or transferor may remove the firearm from the business premises of the licensed dealer while the background check is being conducted. If the seller or transferor removes the firearm from the business premises of the licensed dealer while the background check is being conducted, the purchaser or transferee and the seller or transferor shall return to the business premises of the licensed dealer and the seller or transferor shall again deliver the firearm to the licensed dealer prior to completing the sale or transfer.

(b) Except as provided in (a) of this subsection, the licensed dealer shall comply with all requirements of federal and state law that would apply if the licensed dealer were selling or transferring the firearm from its inventory to the purchaser or transferee, including but not limited to conducting a background check on the prospective purchaser or transferee in accordance with federal and state law requirements and fulfilling all federal and state recordkeeping requirements.

(c) The purchaser or transferee must complete, sign, and submit all federal, state, and local forms necessary to process the required background check to the licensed dealer conducting the background check.

(d) If the results of the background check indicate that the purchaser or transferee is ineligible to possess a firearm, then the licensed dealer shall return the firearm to the seller or transferor.

(e) The licensed dealer may charge a fee that reflects the fair market value of the administrative costs and efforts incurred by the licensed dealer for facilitating the sale or transfer of the firearm.

So the procedure for letting your squeaky-clean-no-criminal-record friend try your gun on his or your property would be:

SCENARIO A:

(1) Pack up the gun and drive to the nearest gun shop. If they aren't open on the weekend, you are SOL.

(2) Hand the gun to the gun shop employee.

(3) Your friend fills out the Federal form 4473 as if he were purchasing a new gun from the dealer.

(4) Your friend pays the dealer whatever the going rate for FFL transfer paperwork is (around here it's $25).

(5) The dealer hands your friend the gun. It is now his legal property and you are not allowed to touch it.

(6) You drive back to your or his property and he shoots a few rounds.

(7) Pack up the gun again and drive to the nearest gun shop. Better get there before they close.

(8) Your friend hands the gun to the gun shop employee.

(9) You fill out the Federal form 4473 as if you were purchasing a new gun from the dealer.

(10) You pay the dealer whatever the going rate is for FFL transfer paperwork (around here it's $25).

(11) The dealer hands you your gun back.


SCENARIO B:

(1) You and your friend look around and make sure no one unfriendly is watching.

(2) You let your friend pick up the gun off the shooting bench and shoot a few rounds, since you know he has passed multiple background checks and has a CHL.


Which scenario do you think will happen? Of course, the people in Scenario B are now criminals and could go to jail for the heinous crime of sharing a gun on an informal range, but will probably never be prosecuted unless one of them has a stalker who turns them in.

[Res Publica]

20. They should make a f***ing smartphone app

Background checks ought to be open to the public a simple smartphone app made by the gov't that lets you type in their name and DL number and comes back as a yes or no on the purchase would do.