The "Nobody wants to take your guns" files.

[beevul]

In the same spirit as this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/11729858


What are your nominations for posts here on DU, individuals, politicians, lobby groups, that advocate banning guns?

I'll start it out with a couple:




And :

Stop the insanity: Ban guns

I'm not talking about gun control. I'm not talking about waiting periods and background checks.

I'm talking about flat-out banning the possession of handguns and assault rifles by individual citizens. I'm talking about repealing or amending the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

The Second Amendment has been misinterpreted. It says guns are permitted to a "well-regulated militia." That means trained citizen soldiers called into action for emergencies — because in colonial times every able-bodied man was required to be a member of the militia. It does not mean everyone with $50 and a driver's license is entitled to own a gun.

http://www.tallahassee.com/story/opinion/columnists/ensley/2014/11/22/stop-insanity-ban-guns/19426029/

[krispos42]

1. The people that bemoan that "there are too many guns" and want "something" to be done about it...

...are, fundamentally, about lowering the guns-per-capita measurement. Since the market forces have made the current level, they want government to interfere enough to substantially lower that number.

How can government do this? The same way certain forces want to restrict abortions or voting or driving gas-guzzling cars...

Taxes, fees, onerous paperwork, long wait times, strict and lengthy scrutiny of the applicant, making revocation for any reason, waiting periods, registration, mandating educational materials, reducing the bureaucracy that handles the application process, etc.

[yeoman6987]

2. How on Earth does this individual think

A repeal of the 2nd Amendment is going to happen? That is total fantasy and wishful thinking with a thought of the last election taken into consideration. I think the gun laws will go backwards for awhile. 31 Republican Governors. Republican Senate and House. Numbers don't even allow for a maybe.

[Kingofalldems]

3. Very clever.

[GGJohn]

13. Even if, and that's a mighty big IF, the 2A were repealed,

it wouldn't ban guns, all that would happen is it would fall to each individual state to set their own firearms policies.
That 10th Amendment thingy.

[yeoman6987]

14. Your right. That's true.

[Veganstein]

16. "Backwards" is kind of a nuanced term here.

I think of almost any relaxation of gun laws as progress toward the goal of a more fair, free and democratic America. Strictly in terms of history, I agree. I'd like to see gun laws go "backwards" to their pre-1934 state. After that, we could start adding back the laws that actually work, if any.

[upaloopa]

4. What power do any of those people have to

take your guns?
More paranoia! Fear and paranoia rule the gungeon.

[beevul]

5. *Chuckle*

See that buddy?

That's the "leader" of moms demand action, the group you and your dishonest buddies in the anti-gun camp are and have been desperately trying to sell to the American people as "reasonable", and she states point blank what the intentions of her lobbying group are, and the intentions of her groups benefactor, "mayor stop and frisk 1 percent I have my own army". Funny how you and your anti-gun buddies never object to bloombergs big money in politics when it comes to gun control, in'it?

"More paranoia! Fear and paranoia rule the gungeon."

We take what your anti-gun loon buddies say at face value, and you have the unmitigated gall, to accuse us of "fear and paranoia".

That about says it all, I think.


But just for fun, heres your chance to add to the discussion:


If you believe Shannon watts is telling a lie about the intentions of Bloomberg and the demanding moms, state it loud and clear, right here. Tell us all how its just a lie, and we shouldn't pay any attention. Show us, how in spite of their own words, they're working hard to protect the rights of individuals to own firearms.

I'll wait right here.

On the other hand, if you can't, or decide not to reply, I'll take that as a concession that I am 100 percent correct.


I get it, its inconvenient for you that we know the intentions of your gun grabbing buddies, and even more inconvenient when they open their fat traps and confirm it. But you really don't have any room to be labeling anyone as paranoid, when we discuss the stated intentions of your gun grabbing buddies, with an eye toward acting to make sure that their stated intentions of do not come to fruition.

[upaloopa]

7. She doesn't make law

and that is one person 's opinion. Paranoid!

[sarisataka]

8. One could say the same

About certain loudmouths that think guns would stop more crimes.

[beevul]

9. Neither does the NRA.

Does that mean you and your gun grabbing buddies are gonna shut up about them?

Yeah, didn't think so.

And what of the new gun ban in CT?

Or is that imaginary paranoia too?

[upaloopa]

11. I am not a gun grabber. I own a gun

You are a paranoid person who lives in fear. The NRA is a lobby that can influence law. That is why we can't get anything done .

[beevul]

12. But the demanding moms and bloombergs cash can't?

I own a gun

So does DiFi. That doesn't mean shit.

"I am not a gun grabber. "

Yeah that explains why you denounce the confiscationists at ever turn...oh wait, you don't. You and your anti-gun buddies are more than happy to yolk their strength, their votes, and their money.

But even though you are silent about the transgressions they themselves state are their intention, we're supposed to buy that you're a gun rights supporter simply because you own a gun.

Mhmm...

Tell us, oh outspoken gun rights supporter, do you support or oppose the CT gun ban? If you aren't a gun grabber, you should oppose it with the rest of us.

"You are a paranoid person who lives in fear."

I'm not the one that supports gun bans. I'm for peoples rights being respected where firearms are concerned. That's your camp, not mine.

The NRA is a lobby that can influence law

And the demanding moms and bloombergs money aren't and can't? Right. Pay attention to elections much? Ever heard of I591 in WA state? Ever heard of the recalls in CO where the anti-gun camp outspend gun rights supporters at a rate of 5 to 1?

You.Got.Nothing.

[friendly_iconoclast]

17. Your interlocutor took off after that- how unsurprising...

[Eleanors38]

6. On fear at the service of the far right...

Like a convoy of slow wallowing tankers turning on all lights in submarine-infested waters, these prohibitionist/confiscatory tirades just bring on more destruction to not only the "cause" of the prohis (whatever that is), but to whatever progressive cause to which the writer wishes to attach.

I agree, this prohibitionist isn't coming for anything. But he serves the cause of reaction without a hint of irony. He should be in their pay.

[ileus]

10. You think it rules here, you should see the GCRA forum.

Here we get to beat them back with facts, over there's it's just an echo chamber of fear and paranoia.

[sarisataka]

15. Oldie but goodie

"Banning guns addresses a fundamental right of all Americans to feel safe."
--U.S. Sen. Dianne Feinstein; Associated Press November 18, 1993

Someone who does make law...

[Nuclear Unicorn]

18. Let's add this one to the collection --

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1172155932#post37

[stone space]

19. Making a list, checking it twice. (nt)

[Nuclear Unicorn]

20. Most gun grabbers lack the candor you and the cited poster display. The prefer to deny what we

all know is the truth. It's nice to show them what they refuse to admit. That is why a thread like this are so useful.

[stone space]

21. "Happiness is a warm gun": John Lennon (9 October 1940 – 8 December 1980)

[Nuclear Unicorn]

22. Does that mean happiness for gun grabbers is a satisfied rapist and a controlling stalker?

You do realize Lennon was just a musician, not some great philosopher, prophet or wit. It's just a song.

[stone space]

23. You want prophesy? Try Isaiah 2:4

They shall beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation shall not rise up against nation. Nor shall they study war any more.

[friendly_iconoclast]

24. That will be *after* the Rapture and heavenly takeover, of course

It appears you...forgot..., shall we say...the part of Isaiah that appears directly before that:

The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.

2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.

[stone space]

25. "...and their AK-47s into guitars."

[Nuclear Unicorn]

27. That's a little hypocritical of you, don't you think?

Your gun grabbing will be enforced upon farmers by hyper-militarized police.

[DonP]

29. The irony and hypocrisy is lost on some folks. N/T

[stone space]

30. Open Carry Texas just murdered two people.

If the cops had been called when they marched, and their gunz taken away, these two victims would be alive today.

[Straw Man]

32. False.

Open Carry Texas just murdered two people.

If the cops had been called when they marched, and their gunz taken away, these two victims would be alive today.

First of all, the organization killed no one. You're charging a conspiracy where none existed. Minus points for a misleading headline.

Second, even if cops had been called to one of the protests, they would have had no legal standing to disarm anyone on the scene, much less confiscate all guns owned by the participants.

Finally, even total disarmament of all the participants would not have been a guarantee against the crime, unless one believes (as you apparently do) that it is impossible to kill someone by any other means than a firearm.

[beevul]

33. If hes right, then the million mom march shot and paralyzed kikko smith.

Barbara Graham, I believe her name was.

Shot and paralyzed an innocent kid.

[stone space]

31. How is it hypocritical for a Christian to beat...

...swords into plowshares?

I mean, I'm an atheist, and even I can understand that. It's in their Holy Scripture.

Do you feel sorry for that poor little Tiger Attack Helicopter?

[Nuclear Unicorn]

34. I reject the war-making power of the nation state but I can find no scripture that imposes

a duty to be raped, assaulted, robbed and/or murdered.

Since you're making a spiritual appeal perhaps you could enjoin yourself to the principle of not bearing false witness. After all, those who lack genuine conviction and pick and choose scriptures piecemeal to gain an advantage tend to be responsible for some of history's greatest outrages.

[stone space]

36. You didn't answer the question.

Why is it hypocritical for Christians to beat swords into plowshares?

Do you feel sorry for the Tiger Attack helicopter that got disarmed?

[Nuclear Unicorn]

37. I wasn't addressing Christians in my post about hypocrisy. I was addressing you.

You are the one who wants people with guns to disarm people with guns. Considering the former group is the instrument of the war-making State and the latter group are the common people who are the farmers and other people your means contradicts your stated ends.

You want to employ the State's presumed monopoly on violent force for your agenda, yet you bastardize scripture you openly reject in a cynical ploy to silence the rejection of your agenda.

Some people should not be permitted access to the instruments of violence and those in their company should never be disarmed.

[stone space]

38. Post #27 was a reply to post #23. (nt)

[Nuclear Unicorn]

39. Yes, I know.

[Omnith]

26. Milk being an important part of breakfast, the right to keep and drink milk will not be infringed.

[beevul]

28. Pete Shields, founder of Handgun Control, Inc. which is now the brady campaign

We're going to have to take one step at a time, and the first step is necessarily -- given the political realities -- going to be very modest. . . . e'll have to start working again to strengthen that law, and then again to strengthen the next law, and maybe again and again. Right now, though, we'd be satisfied not with half a loaf but with a slice. Our ultimate goal -- total control of handguns in the United States -- is going to take time. . . . The first problem is to slow down the number of handguns being produced and sold in this country. The second problem is to get handguns registered. The final problem is to make possession of all handguns and all handgun ammunition-except for the military, police, licensed security guards, licensed sporting clubs, and licensed gun collectors-totally illegal.

[pablo_marmol]

35. This is one of *countless* examples of how restriction supporters display hypocrisy.

I mean.......how quick are they to point out that NRA leadership is more radical than rank and file members?

Yet they can't even begin to consider the possibility that the same holds true for the leaders of the pro-restriction movement?!

[Res Publica]

40. This is why gun control has become stupid.

http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/2010/01/25/shoestring-machine-gun/
For 3 years the ATF found 14 inch long shoestrings to be machine guns, looks like we ought to go out and charge everyone with unlicensed manufacture of a machine gun. Hooray for the Prison complex!