Florida man exercises Second Amendment rights on own brother.

[RandySF]

A man from Orlando, Florida, was asleep in his home on Friday night with his wife when he heard a noise in his kitchen. He grabbed his semi-automatic handgun and went to check out the sound. He saw someone standing in the home and fired his weapon. The man then realized the person he just shot was his teen brother. He immediately performed CPR, and his wife called 911. Sadly, the 17-year-old brother, Leonard “Leo” Stay, passed away from his injuries.

The Orlando Sentinel reports that Leonard “Leo” Stay was a beloved teen that attended Ocoee High School. The 17-year-old would have been a senior next year. Teachers at Leo’s school say he had a big heart and was always smiling. Leo had joined the wrestling team during the spring semester, and his coach says he was known for lifting people up and his positive nature.

In addition to being a caring student at Ocoee High School, Leo was also involved in his local church, Mt. Zion Tabernacle Christian Church in Pine Hills. Leo’s pastor, Stanley Murray, says the teen spent a lot of time with the church and could be found feeding the homeless, serving as an usher, and mentoring other youth at the church. He also was the coordinator of a traveling mime dance troop. The troop would travel for performances at other churches in the area. Murray says despite all of his talents, the teen was very humble.

Unfortunately, all of that came to an end on Friday night when Leo’s 32-year-old brother shot and killed him after he mistook the teen for a home intruder. The report indicates that Leo lived with his older brother and his brother’s wife, but that for some unknown reason on Friday night around 11:30 pm, his brother shot him after hearing a noise in the home.



http://www.inquisitr.com/2151796/florida-man-shoots-dead-his-teen-brother-after-he-mistook-him-for-home-intruder/#38MyMbdsKBDO2g5s.99

[GGJohn]

1. That's why I say,

always know your target before pulling the trigger.
while this is a tragedy, I don't see any crime here.
Condolences to the family of this teen, his brother is going to have to live with this for the rest of his life.

[SoCalMusicLover]

2. Negligence Is The Crime

Let him serve some jail time for the improper use of a weapon. Though that is probably not a chargeable crime.

I am really beginning to love the "have to live with this for the rest of his life" meme.

Too bad the teenager wasn't packing heat while rummaging through the kitchen, or it really could have got exciting.

[GGJohn]

4. No, it's not under the law,

it will fall under the Castle Doctrine law.

[sarisataka]

5. Two deaths are better than one

Too bad the teenager wasn't packing heat while rummaging through the kitchen, or it really could have got exciting.

That old "concern for the victim"

[Eleanors38]

30. "Too bad the teenager wasn't packing heat..." Could you explain this?

[Warren Stupidity]

3. negligent homicide.

Sorry but when you shoot and kill somebody who lives in your house because you are fucking idiot who shouldn't have a gun to begin with and because you failed to identify your target before you shot and because there was absolutely no justifying threat, then you should go to fucking jail.

[GGJohn]

6. Maybe you should know the law before spouting nonsense.

FL. Castle Doctrine law will prevent him from being charged.

Protection of Persons/Use of Force; authorizes person to use force, including deadly force, against intruder or attacker in dwelling, residence, or vehicle under specified circumstances; provides that person is justified in using deadly force under certain circumstances; provides immunity from criminal prosecution or civil action for using deadly force; defines term "criminal prosecution", etc. Creates 776.013,.032; amends 776.012,.031. EFFECTIVE DATE: 10/01/2005.

FL SB-436
http://public.lobbytools.com/index.cfm?type=bills&id=13869

[Warren Stupidity]

7. "against intruder or attacker in dwelling"

the victim was neither.

[GGJohn]

8. He didn't know that.

Stupid not knowing what he was shooting at, but not illegal under FL law.

[Warren Stupidity]

9. There is no immunity for killing a person who has a right to be where he is.

776.013 Home protection; use of deadly force; presumption of fear of death or great bodily harm.—

(1) A person is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another when using defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another if:

(a) The person against whom the defensive force was used was and forcibly entered, a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle, or if that person had removed or was attempting to remove another against that person’s will from the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle; and

(b) The person who uses defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry or unlawful and forcible act was occurring or had occurred.

(2) The presumption set forth in subsection (1) does not apply if:

(a) The person against whom the defensive force is used has the right to be in or is a lawful resident of the dwelling, residence, or vehicle, such as an owner, lessee, or titleholder, and there is not an injunction for protection from domestic violence or a written pretrial supervision order of no contact against that person; or

(b) The person or persons sought to be removed is a child or grandchild, or is otherwise in the lawful custody or under the lawful guardianship of, the person against whom the defensive force is used; or

(c) The person who uses defensive force is engaged in an unlawful activity or is using the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle to further an unlawful activity; or
776.013 Home protection; use of deadly force; presumption of fear of death or great bodily harm.—

(1) A person is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another when using defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another if:

(a) The person against whom the defensive force was used was and forcibly entered, a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle, or if that person had removed or was attempting to remove another against that person’s will from the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle; and

(b) The person who uses defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry or unlawful and forcible act was occurring or had occurred.

(2) The presumption set forth in subsection (1) does not apply if:

(a) The person against whom the defensive force is used has the right to be in or is a lawful resident of the dwelling, residence, or vehicle, such as an owner, lessee, or titleholder, and there is not an injunction for protection from domestic violence or a written pretrial supervision order of no contact against that person; or

(b) The person or persons sought to be removed is a child or grandchild, or is otherwise in the lawful custody or under the lawful guardianship of, the person against whom the defensive force is used; or

(c) The person who uses defensive force is engaged in an unlawful activity or is using the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle to further an unlawful activity; or

(d) The person against whom the defensive force is used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who enters or attempts to enter a dwelling, residence, or vehicle in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person entering or attempting to enter was a law enforcement officer.

(3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

(4) A person who unlawfully and by force enters or attempts to enter a person’s dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle is presumed to be doing so with the intent to commit an unlawful act involving force or violence.

http://pjmedia.com/blog/florida%E2%80%99s-castle-doctrine-law-lets-actually-read-it/

[Warren Stupidity]

17. "The report indicates that Leo lived with his older brother"

From the OP's story.

[Shamash]

36. Then I stand corrected

I was wrong, I apologize for any slight, and will delete my comment.

[GGJohn]

11. Again, he didn't know who it was in the kitchen, he

didn't know it was his brother and I'll bet dollars to donuts that he won't be charged.

[Warren Stupidity]

18. Again he does not qualify for immunity.

Not knowing doesn't qualify him. He killed a person who had every right to be where he was. He killed a person who was not a threat. Doesn't mean he will be prosecuted, but he is going to have a hard time qualifying for immunity.

[LiberalArkie]

33. Could have been his wife even, getting some milk.

[GGJohn]

35. It may very well have been,

and he's an idiot for not identifying who it was, but was it illegal?

[gejohnston]

12. why did you choose right wing PJ media instead of the

Florida government site?
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0776/Sections/0776.013.html

[GGJohn]

13. Because that wouldn't fit his definition.

[Warren Stupidity]

19. Is there any difference in the text?

Or are you just out of valid arguments?

a) The person against whom the defensive force is used or threatened has the right to be in or is a lawful resident of the dwelling, residence, or vehicle, such as an owner, lessee, or titleholder, and there is not an injunction for protection from domestic violence or a written pretrial supervision order of no contact against that person;

[GGJohn]

21. Why didn't you answer the question? eom.

[Warren Stupidity]

22. because the question is irrelevant and a distraction.

The law cited clearly states that this idiot does not qualify for immunity.

[cui bono]

23. Ignorance is no excuse.

[GGJohn]

26. Agreed, but FL law disagrees. eom.

[Warren Stupidity]

32. I guess the detectives are just idiots.

Detectives plan to forward the result of their investigation to the State Attorney's Office to see whether charges are warranted, sheriff's spokesman Jeff Williamson said. Leo's brother has not been arrested or charged.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/breaking-news/os-man-shoots-brother-high-lake-drive-20150606-story.html

Obviously they should have talked to you first.

[GGJohn]

34. Of course they're going to forward the results of their investigation,

that's SOP, and I'll bet my pension that the SAO's office declines to prosecute.

[cui bono]

16. That's how I feel.

And if it's not a chargeable offense it most certainly should be. He is worse than a moron. He was handling a lethal weapon that he doesn't know how to properly use and he killed someone. Needs to serve time.

[cui bono]

14. The teen brother LIVED there.

There was no intruder. Why on earth would you even assume it is an intruder when there is another male living in the house?

What utter stupidity. This is why we need better gun control and education. What fucking idiot. He should certainly face jail time for some sort of manslaughter charge. He was handling a weapon he had no business handling since he doesn't know how to use it properly and he is a danger to society.

[GGJohn]

15. He didn't know it was his brother,

and Castle Doctrine will prevent the state from charging him.
Utter stupidity for not identifying his target, but not illegal in his own home.

[cui bono]

20. He should not have shot before knowing who he was shooting at.

I honestly don't care what the law is, he should be arrested and convicted. The laws are as stupid as he is. The SYG bullshit is just a license to be a racist murderer.

Guns are lethal weapons. If one can't use it properly and goes around killing people 'accidentally' there's no telling how many 'legal' murders are going to be out there. It is way past time to regulate guns and the people who use them more stringently.

[GGJohn]

24. He should not have shot before knowing who he was shooting at.

I won't argue with that statement.

I honestly don't care what the law is, he should be arrested and convicted. The laws are as stupid as he is. The SYG bullshit is just a license to be a racist murderer.

No, it's not.

[cui bono]

38. It absolutely is imo.

I've seen stories that support that opinion.

Honestly, if a PoC shoots a white person, do you think they would get off as easily as a white shooting a black? Reverse the races in the Zimmerman murder of Trayvon case. How do you think that would have turned out?

[GGJohn]

50. Google Blacks using FL SYG defense,

I think you'll find the results surprising.

[Zamen]

52. Why wouldn't they?

[gejohnston]

53. I know the answer to that

There are two cases that didn't go to trial. One was in Miami a few years ago. Another was a white racist getting ventilated in Ft Myers. Since there wasn't charges or trial, they got off easier.
http://www.news-press.com/story/news/2015/05/01/state-irons-details-fatal-waffle-house-shooting/26750905/

[sarisataka]

37. "I honestly don't care what the law is, he should be arrested and convicted. "

That pretty much says it all- 'fuck the law. Lock his ass up'

Very progressive

[cui bono]

39. I should have added something I added elsewhere, that the laws need to be changed.

I'm not advocating that we don't follow the law!

More regulation is needed, both in gun control and in licensing people to own one. If idiots like this don't know how to keep from killing their own brother who lives in the house with them, they have no business brandishing a lethal weapon. Period.

[sarisataka]

42. I disagree with the interpretation

That the law provides immunity in this situation. If it does it should be changed unless there are very extenuating circumstances- the victim was wearing a mask and carrying an axe. It should be upto a jury.

Sorry for the aggressive tone. We have often seen advocating of extra-legal action against gun owners. To your credit you didn't suggest assault or execution, both have been proposed...

[gejohnston]

45. I don't know either way,

but from what I have seen of Florida politicians, stupidity seems to be a job requirement. For example, the preemption law was written to even prevent discharging a firearm in city limits ordinances. Then some asshole in St Petersburg decided to make a half assed backstop in his urban backyard instead of joining an indoor range five blocks away.

I do think that failing to identify the target is negligence. If the law doesn't allow charges, then somebody needs to call their state rep.

[cui bono]

63. I agree.

And thanks for the apology. Not a problem.

[Warren Stupidity]

25. You've been shown the law and the fact that it clearly prevents a castle doctrine

immunity claim for murdering a person who has the legal right to be in your residence.

Florida is full of stupid, but it is not quite this stupid. Yet.

[GGJohn]

27. Only if he knew who it was, which he clearly didn't. eom.

[Warren Stupidity]

29. Please show me the "only if he knew who it was" exemption in the law.

[GGJohn]

31. Show me where anyone has ever been charged in FL under similiar circumstances. eom.

[Eleanors38]

28. Very tragic with on-going consquences. How do you feel about it, Randy? You didn't say.

[RandySF]

41. I'm a "gun grabber" so it doesn't really matter.

Accidents are the leading cause of gun deaths in the country but, by golly, it's still not easy enough to buy one. That's all I have to say on this.

[Eleanors38]

44. I get it: "It doesn't really matter."

[Lizzie Poppet]

48. "Accidents are the leading cause of gun deaths in the country..."

"In the U.S. for 2010, there were 31,513 deaths from firearms, distributed as follows by mode of death: Suicide 19,308; Homicide 11,015; Accident 600. " (http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/TUTORIAL/GUNS/GUNSTAT.html)

?w=652

[GGJohn]

51. Accidents are the leading cause of gun deaths in the country

Uh, no, they're not, suicides are the leading cause of gun deaths in this country, followed by criminal use of firearms.

[Lizzie Poppet]

62. Accidents are barely a blip, in fact.

Tragic, in that they're invariably preventable...but accidents make up about 2% of all firearms-related deaths per year.

Of course, we won't get a retraction or even an acknowledgement of that comedy-tier fuck up.

[Duckhunter935]

54. And you would be incorrect

About gun deaths due to accidents. Must suck to be in a group you are challenged with facts. I bet you feel much better in "bansalot ".

[virginia mountainman]

58. Tell that to the woman who was murdered by her ex in NJ

Because she could not get a permit in less than 30 days..

http://www.nj.com/camden/index.ssf/2015/06/nj_gun_association_calls_berlin_womans_death_an_ab.html

[exboyfil]

40. If everyone inside the house is in the room with you

Why do you go investigating with your gun? I would stay behind the locked door and call the police letting them know my position and who was with me. Is there anything you own which is worth risking your life over?

[gejohnston]

43. are you a student of Massad Ayoob?

[exboyfil]

46. Never have seen this before

but it is really good advice. Thanks for sharing.

[gejohnston]

59. his training is among the best, and is highly regarded

among concealed carry folks. If I were a CCW instructor, I would draw a lot from his writings. All of my firearms instructing has been teaching basic safety and marksmanship to boy scouts and state mandated hunter safety courses for first time hunters, average student being about 14.

[AC_Mem]

47. I hate guns

Stories like this are becoming an every day occurrence here in Florida. I live in Orlando and we are completely saturated in Tea Party politicians. they voted against the ACA Friday which will leave 800,000 people without health insurance and they do not care. They are more worried about creating their version of conservative utopia where everyone has a gun, women have no control over their life, people are not entitled to the same level of government health care that they themselves have, corporations are people, take away votes (if they are democratic) by closing or reducing the opportunities to vote, privatizing the school system to the point that it is corrupt and the children coming out are barely literate while testing the public school children to the point of exhaustion rather than teaching them, corrupt politicians with a governor who cares about nothing but business and lies constantly, and of course - people getting shot all over florida.

I hope and pray that we turn blue, we actually have more democrats than republicans here but they don't see the importance of getting up and voting. The only way this state has a chance is if the democrats overcome the GOP's tactics of voter suppression and gerrymandering and VOTE.

[gejohnston]

49. would it make you feel better if you knew that

Florida's gun ownership rate is the same as France's and lags behind Vermont, Norway, Canada?
Scott is a POS, but I think the politicians are more stupid than corrupt. At least, that seems to be the case in Citrus County. Now if you want to see everybody with guns, including the liberals, come to my state.

[raccoon]

55. Gee, given how the laws are, how easy it would be to kill a spouse or

other family member....and then claim it was accidental and you thought
it was an intruder in the house.

(Not saying this guy did this, but it would be real easy to do.)

Makes me glad nobody lives with me.

[sarisataka]

60. I have a better solution

and live in a household where no one wants to kill each other.

[tblue37]

64. The Oscar Pistorius Method. nt

[benEzra]

56. The Four Rules of Gun Safety:

The Four Rules of Gun Safety:

(1) Always treat a gun as if it is loaded.

(2) Never point a gun in an unsafe direction. (If you say "But it's OK, it's unloaded", see Rule 1.)

(3) Keep your finger off the trigger unless you are on target and ready to shoot. (If you say "But it's OK, it's unloaded", see Rule 1.)

(4) Always be sure of your target and what is beyond it.

That's why my HD carbine has a light on it, and why I *always* have a light with me when carrying a handgun, at home or otherwise. Shooting at unidentified shadows runs the risk of a tragedy like this happening.

And FWIW, this is definitely chargeable as negligent homicide or manslaughter in Florida. The conditions under which one can claim Castle Doctrine immunity are clearly spelled out and are NOT subjective, and do not apply in this case. Castle Doctrine applies to unlawful forced entries, which this was not.

[Shamash]

61. No comment on Rule 3...or 1, 2 and 4

[ileus]

57. This is why my HD pistol is SA/DA and has a light on the rail.

Even with the pistol mounted light I have another light that sits beside it that way I can use that light to ID things that go bump in the night without pointing my personal safety device at an individual.


Safety first...