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NaturalHigh

(12,778 posts)
Wed Jun 24, 2015, 04:03 AM Jun 2015

X-POST from GD: Guns in Civilian Hands Kill People

Guns in civilian hands kill people.

First, let me make where I stand clear: I loathe firearms of any kind. With good reason.

If we are to join the community of nations, Congress must pass laws calling for national firearms registration. Doing so is both mandatory and urgent for public safety.

We are well beyond the point where the populace needs to be armed to the teeth to preserve our freedoms. This is the 21st Century. America is vastly different from what it was when the Bill of Rights was passed. We are in no danger of losing our freedoms; the Second Amendment is out-of-date. Although my preference would be to repeal the Second Amendment and leave gun laws strictly up to Congress and the President, chances of repealing it are virtually nil. Therefore, Congress must pass federal laws that limit ownership of firearms -- pushing those laws to the very limits of constitutionality.

Without taking time to refine them, a few of my thoughts follow.


Federal law must prohibit gun sales without government authorization, including private sales. Buyers must provide proof of age, residency, mental state, and satisfactory completion of a federally-approved firearms safety course -- at a minimum. A seller must have a federal license to sell firearms. Gun shows must be closely monitored by the The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. All gun shows must have local, state, and federal permits before they can be held.

Nobody needs an assault weapon -- and that includes semi-automatic weapons. They can easily be turned into fully automatic weapons with a readily available and inexpensive conversion kit. Semi-automatic and automatic weapons are simply too dangerous to be in private hands. All semi-automatic weapons for private use should be banned: no buyback, no grandfathering of weapons already owned, and no sunset clause. Private individuals must either turn them in to authorities or face criminal charges.

Currently owned weapons, ammunition magazines, and ammunition quantities above a certain number must be turned in to authorities or destroyed in a timely manner and thereafter their possession in excess will be a crime. (Some gun nuts own dozens if not hundreds of firearms, along with untold thousands of rounds of ammunition. Why do they need so much ordnance?)

Gun nuts will respond that people outside urban areas keep firearms in their cars or trucks for "roadside emergencies, impromptu plinking, and varmint-hunting opportunities." Yes -- and to have them close at hand when road rage hits. What a crock. Let them go to gun and rifle ranges -- and keep their weapons under lock and key in a controlled environment. Let them keep their weapons in an armory, to be signed out when they want to use them -- with a specified return by date that can be enforced. No more than a couple of weeks or so at a time.

Gun nuts will claim that private ownership of firearms results in many life-saving defensive uses -- and that those uses are under-reported by "the liberal media." That's simply not true -- neither the alleged magnitude of the number of life-saving incidents nor that the very few that occur are not reported adequately.

Enforcement? Well, for one thing the TSA's role could be expanded to run random checkpoints for firearms -- like those run by local police to deter drunk driving. Anyone caught without proper registration to carry a firearm in a vehicle could be cited for the violation, facing a stiff fine at a minimum and potential confiscation of all weapons in his or her possession at the other end of the spectrum. For egregious violations of the law, jail or prison terms could be specified in the law.

If it were possible to go beyond what I have proposed and completely eliminate private firearms ownership and possession, I would be all for that. I just don't think that can ever be done. Not in a country as backwards and violent as the United States is.

Make no mistake about it: If the Second Amendment were repealed, guns could be brought under control at the federal level, despite state constitutions that mimic the Second Amendment. That's because of Article VI in the Constitution: "This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof ... shall be the supreme Law of the Land...." (Emphasis added.) Article IX and Article X of the Constitution might present a slight obstacle -- but not much of one if we can get a conservative on the Supreme Court replaced by a liberal.

It's time to do something.


I've said elsewhere that I'm not in favor of repealing the First Amendment the way I'm in favor of repealing the Second Amendment, but I am in favor of amending it to permit hate speech to be controlled better. Hate speech by its very nature is inflammatory and likely to cause violence in the short-term, if not immediately.

Let’s face it -- and most of us feel that way sometimes -- some people don't deserve First Amendment protection. It doesn't seem unreasonable to me for the Constitution to allow Congress to pass laws that reflect the wishes of an overwhelming majority of the people.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026892528


As some posters point out, the OP is basically calling for half the Bill of Rights to be thrown out.

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benEzra

(12,148 posts)
2. So, you want to ban and confiscate 80% or more of firearms in U.S. homes.
Wed Jun 24, 2015, 09:27 AM
Jun 2015

You are advocating the seizure, at gunpoint if necessary, more than a quarter billion firearms from 60 or 70 million voters.

Here's a clue: Merely raising prices on normal-capacity handgun magazines in 1994, and issuing some unenforced and nonsensical restrictions regarding protruding rifle handgrips and what, cost the House and Senate that year and unseated the sitting Speaker of the House for the first time since the Civil War. And support for gun restrictions was far higher then than it is now.

It appears to me that Bloomberg et al have driven the U.S. gun control movement off a cliff.

melm00se

(4,993 posts)
3. let me count the ways
Wed Jun 24, 2015, 09:46 AM
Jun 2015
We are in no danger of losing our freedoms


yet you are advocating exactly that.

Currently owned weapons, ammunition magazines, and ammunition quantities above a certain number must be turned in to authorities or destroyed


bye bye 4th Amendment (you know, the part that says: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures". oh and don't forget about the 5th Amendment "nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law". Of course you could say that Congress passed a law so that is "due process". Unfortunately, current Supreme Court precedent says otherwise (qv Heller and MacDonald decisions).

Enforcement? Well, for one thing the TSA's role could be expanded to run random checkpoints for firearms -- like those run by local police to deter drunk driving.


Are you advocating that the TSA would just be empowered to randomly search your vehicle? Once again the 4th Amendment would interfere with your plans.

Gun nuts will claim that private ownership of firearms results in many life-saving defensive uses


The USSC has ruled that self-defense is a guaranteed right (qv Heller)

I could go on but I tire of arguing with folks who believe that rights are only rights when they agree with them and if they don't agree with them those rights are subject to being removed at a whim.
 

clffrdjk

(905 posts)
4. Hey guys remember nobody wants to take your guns.
Wed Jun 24, 2015, 10:36 AM
Jun 2015

And you are paranoid for thinking so. Also paranoia is now a disqualifying factor for gun ownership.

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