This seems familiar.

[beevul]

The EU will publish a TOTAL semi-auto rifle ban proposal tomorrow

The European Union’s draft proposals for amendments to its Firearms Directive will be published tomorrow as a response to the Paris mass murders, according to watchdog group Firearms United.

Central to the proposal is a ban on all semi-automatic rifles “similar to that used by the military”. While UK Shooting News is relying on Google Translate, translations of this concept from other reports on the same topic seem to indicate that the EU wants to go down the American route of banning firearms from civilian ownership depending on their looks.

“Which of the EU countries issued a permit for the islamic gun terrorists from Paris?”, Firearms United founder Andrzej Turczyn asked. “None of the terrorists had been able to possess a weapon with a permit. But these laws did not stop the Islamists from committing a hideous crime in Paris. For what reason, therefore, proposes the European Commission now – after the assassination in Paris – limited access to firearms for law-abiding Europeans? Others, like criminals or terrorists, do not pay attention to the law at all.”

It seems likely that the EU will use the Paris murders as an excuse to bring forward a long-planned ban on semi-automatic rifles. There has been no suggestion from politicians or news media that the murderers used legally acquired firearms.

https://ukshootingnews.wordpress.com/2015/11/17/the-eu-will-publish-a-total-semi-auto-rifle-ban-proposal-tomorrow/

(much more at the link)

This seems familiar.

Discuss.

[randys1]

1. Only Americans have the idea that they have some innate right to own a tool built solely to

kill others. Well, to kill and to play with as a recreational item (toy bothers some too much to use here, but appropriate).

The ban of course makes perfect sense, with or without what happened last week in Paris.

You wont hear millions of people complaining about it though.

They do that here. I am using the word "complaining" because the word I want to use would get me in trouble.

[beevul]

3. Only doctrinaire anti-gun zealots see semi-auto rifles as

Only doctrinaire anti-gun zealots see semi-auto rifles as built solely to kill others.

The ban of course makes perfect sense, with or without what happened last week in Paris

Nothing like a little confirmation to start my day.

[DonP]

5. That might explain why they are so pathetically ineffective

Insist on banning something that's a minor factor in crime based on how it looks and makes them feeeeel.

What, rifles overall were involved in less than 275 crimes all last year, according to the FBI?

Let's keep trying to ban the most popular rifle in North America anyway, because they look scary to them.

While we're at it let's ban racing stripes on Dodge Omnis, because ir makes them look too fast.

Kinda sounds like that "Bull Connor School of Charm" at work; "I don't like they way they look, so get 'em outta here".

No wonder they can't get anything done in the legislatures and have to make the NRA the big bad boogeyman to excuse their regular lack of any kind of success.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

6. re: "...ban racing stripes on Dodge Omnis..."

That, the semi-auto ban, laws that include only or principally only rifles and mostly all prohibition-like laws about most any objects (as opposed to behavior) belong in that great and apparently unflushed toilet with the AWB.

[randys1]

9. Your emotional need to own a gun is yours and not mine.

[DonP]

12. Real, emotional or otherwise, there's really nothing you can do about it

Adjusting to that concept in the real world seems to be a challenge for some.

But it is about the only strategy you and your fellow travelers have left, besides whining online about the evil NRA and gun owners.

[randys1]

13. I could if we interpreted the 2nd the way it is clearly written, but thanks to the

money of the NRA, we cant do that

I say I but I mean our government, of course.

Then I could live in a state where guns are outlawed, and you could live in one where everybody has one.

[DonP]

27. Keep using the "NRA money" as your excuse for repeated failures

It's working so well, attracting support for your "cause". Brady has what now? Maybe 400 dues paying members? Everytown and MDA are so desperate to look legitimate, they consider anyone that "likes" their Facebook page a "member".

Clinging to the imaginary "militia" interpretation isn't going too well either. You're hard pressed to find any serious legal scholarship that actually supports that idea. But some people probably mourned the loss of Dredd Scott too I bet. They're still losers too.

Just can't accept that the American public just doesn't like your flavor of the 2nd amendment and when given choices doesn't vote that way? The 5 million dues paying NRA members must have bought off all those appellate judges that ruled against more gun control too I guess.

At least a few people that don't keep track might buy into the NRA $$$ myth.

They probably don't know that Bloomberg gave gun control $50+ million last year and gun control pissed it away on losing campaigns in three states, in some cases outspending the NRA 7 to 1 and they still lost.

But please, by all means, keep that imaginary big NRA bank account front and center as your excuse and you'll keep failing dismally.

[randys1]

29. Agreed, we have failed. We have failed to curtail the sick and twisted deaths

caused daily by unnecessary guns.

[beevul]

31. Its not your place to determine whos guns are necessary or not...

Its not your place to determine whos guns are necessary or not, and while you may not know it, the majority of Americans know it full well.

Presuming that it is, is why you lot will fail and fail and fail.

[randys1]

32. And yet the rest of the civilized world doesnt play with guns the way we do. or kill with them

[beevul]

36. The rest of the civilized world...

The rest of the civilized world, also does things like beating confessions out of people, bans silverware to those under 18 including plastic, and a whole lot of other nonsensical to completely offensive bullshit examples.

Beyond that, 99.9x percent of gun owners in America do not use guns to commit gun violence, and 99.9X percent of guns in private possession in America are not used in the commission gun violence.

We are keeping our guns, and there is nothing you can do about it.

Find another object to direct your hatred towards. With luck, you can find something that everyone, or hell even a majority, agree with you on. If I were you I'd steer clear of alcohol and MJ, but each to his own.

[DonP]

33. You have failed because all you do is talk about it

In over a decade here, we have yet to find one gun control supporter who ever does anything besides whine online about how horrible guns and gun owners are and offer up the NRA as their excuse for utter failure and irrelevancy.

No petitions begun or signed for CCW repeal, no town hall meetings to speak out against a new gun range or gun store, no legislator meetings to speak their mind.

Just a lot of smoke and online mirrors, no real activity in the real world.

Based on the evidence, we have to assume either gun control supporters are really lazy, or they don't have any infrastructure to guide them on what to do and where to do it.

Tell you what, so you don't feel bad, you can pretend that the reduction by over 50% in gun crimes and "sick and twisted deaths" in the last 20 years is because gun control was so "outspoken".

In the meantime, we'll each decide for ourselves what is and isn't necessary for our lives, not some self appointed "moral better".

[benEzra]

41. If you're interested in reducing deaths,

then why are you going after the guns that kill fewer people than bicycles?

[Lizzie Poppet]

43. Pre-fucking-cisely.

But going after the guns that kill the most people (by a ridiculous margin) doesn't advance the culture war.

[Kang Colby]

34. Whoa ^^^^^

This is appropriate.


Fantastic post. Well said.

[hack89]

14. Fortunately the civil right to own one is also mine

So your emotional needs are irrelevant.

[randys1]

15. Only because the NRA has bought the Supreme Court

The 2nd amendment clearly does not provide for an individual to own a gun other than within the regulation of a militia.

This is a basic fact.

Just like George W Bush did not win that election, even though the SC insisted that he did.

[hack89]

18. Has the NRA bought the Democratic Party ?

Because our party platform clearly states that the 2A protects an individual right. Our president has also publicly said the same.

[randys1]

20. Guns have influenced all areas of American life.

So to some extent yes the NRA has its influence in our party.

Obama could NOT be elected if he took any other position, no politician could.

Just because the majority of us want something, doesnt mean it is good or right or beneficial.

We are a deeply flawed nation when it comes to guns, this is simply a fact.

[hack89]

22. Gun control is simply not that big an issue for most Americans

They support it but not with any enthusiasm or deep support. It is never been a high priority for Dem voters therefore it goes nowhere.

[krispos42]

39. "The people" is composed of individuals.

The right of "the people" to be secure in their papers and effects (to paraphrase) doesn't mean "well, there is a collective right to privacy but no individual has a guarantee of privacy". It means that ALL INDIVIDUALS have an INDIVIDUAL right to be secure in their papers and persons and effects.



There are three entities in the 2nd Amendment: the State, the militia, and the people. "The people" in the 2nd means the exact same thing as "the people" elsewhere in the constitution.

[Big_Mike]

42. Another case of pick and choose

The 2nd amendment clearly does not provide for an individual to own a gun other than within the regulation of a militia.

This is a basic fact.

Just like George W Bush did not win that election, even though the SC insisted that he did.

The Constitution does not specify the right to an abortion, nor does it specify the right to privacy.

This is just basic fact.

Just like George W. Bush did not win that election, even though the SC insisted that he did.

Doesn't fit so well when more deeply thought out, does it. The law means what the Supreme says it means. If you can change the popular opinion enough, you can influence the Court's opinion.

Think re: Gay Marriage.

[beevul]

25. Your emotional need to control others is yours and not mine.

[ileus]

7. Mine are built solely to save lives.

[randys1]

8. Nonsense, they exist to kill people or animals or both. You cannot control access to the gun

completely.

Not completely.

You also cant be 100% certain you wont shoot an innocent person by mistake, not 100%.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

10. and neither can the cops or military

[randys1]

11. Like most civilized countries, a few cops would have guns, most wouldnt.

The military comment is meaningless, they fall entirely under separate legal cover.

Look, this is simple, the rest of the civilized PLANET has done away with the need to have guns over the downside of having them.

We havent.

We are debating anything, you are insisting on holding on to a dangerous, sometimes childish behavour, and people like me are asking you to stop.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

24. re: "...military comment is meaningless, they fall entirely..."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1172181534

IMNSHO your comment on the "military comment" is meaningless.

"...you are insisting on holding on to a dangerous, sometimes childish behavour, and people like me are asking you to stop."

Actually I'm just pointing out that the end, which you (and "those like you&quot profess to pursue cannot be proven to be obtained through your preferred means and, further, that there are reasonable grounds for believing that your desired end is impossible to achieve.

But please carry on as it makes for animating debate.

[randys1]

28. Mlitary is not the public, military is military and military has restricted

wait, why am I explaining this to you, if you dont know the difference between military and police, we are wasting our time here

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

37. well.............

A difference that makes no difference, is no difference.
Apparently, yes we are.

[beevul]

26. "a dangerous, sometimes childish behavour"?

Mainstream America sees the need, the addiction, to control others, as a dangerous, sometimes childish behavior.

See prohibition, the war on drugs, folks against free speech and the first amendment...and on and on and on.

Make no mistake, you are squarely in the camp of the prohibitionist.

[beardown]

35. So are places like Syria and the Ukraine still civilized?

Like gun controllers like to say, a gun owner is responsible until they are not. Same with nations. They are civilized until they are not.

Get support structures and economic security into place in the USA and then let's start talking about civilized nations and gun control. By the way, it's unlikely we're going to get more civilized laws and safety nets in the USA without more gun owners voting democractic party candidates so the gun control folks are faced by a Catch 22 or more simply short term pain for long term gain situation.

[hack89]

16. In 35 years of gun ownership I have never killed or harmed a living thing

The same applies to the majority of gun owners. So your sophomoric and simplistic meme is wrong.

[randys1]

17. Ahh, the insult. ANyway, vote a straight democratic ticket, take someone with you

when you do, and you wont hear another peep out of me.

[hack89]

19. I always vote Democrat - they represent no threat to my guns

Remember, to be a Dem is to support gun ownership as an individual right. It is in our party platform.

[randys1]

21. Why do you so badly need a gun? Dont tell me you dont, because you do, since you argue

against the rational plan to do away with them since the cause so many issues.

So either you really really want one, or you argue for the fun of arguing, so I assume you really want one.

Why?

[hack89]

23. I do not need one. I just want them.

Competitive shooting has been my sport for decades and I will not give it up to cater to your irrational fears. Not complicated.

[ileus]

30. Sure I can.

[krispos42]

40. How do you own anything sharp, heavy, pointed, or capable of moving faster than 2 miles per hour?

I mean, you personally?


If that's how you see the world, then how do you even leave your home? What if you just decide to grab a baby carriage and whip it out into traffic?


Can you guarantee, 100%, that you WON'T shove a toddler into traffic?

[Eleanors38]

2. Previously, assault rifles were sold legally... right along the Seine. Cheaper on the Left Bank.

[beevul]

4. Terrorists use automatic weapons, bombs, suicide vests, and grenades...

Terrorists use automatic weapons, bombs, suicide vests, and grenades to kill over 100 people.

Response: Ban semi auto weapons.


Makes about as much sense as this hypothetical:

Wolves responsible for killing livestock.

Response: Ban pit bulls.

[ileus]

38. No thanks....I'll keep my Counter-Assault rifles.

Disarming me won't make my family safer. Period end of debate...

[Travis_0004]

44. Didnt the parris assaults prove that gun bans dont work.