4th annual LA gun buyback offers firearm owners gift cards for guns

[Johnny Rico]

http://www.scpr.org/news/2012/05/11/32395/gun-buy-back-program-starts-saturday/

Los Angeles will hold its fourth annual gun buyback event Saturday, offering gun owners $100 and $200 gift cards in exchange for their handguns, rifles, shotguns and assault weapons. The gun exchanges, aimed at reducing gun violence, will take place at six locations across the city. Since its inception in 2009, the city's buyback program has netted approximately 6,269 weapons.

The program, run jointly by the LAPD and Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa's Gang Reduction and Youth Development Office, allows owners to turn in their guns anonymously. Assault weapons are worth a $200 Ralphs or VISA card. Other guns are worth $100. "Tomorrow is the day before Mothers' Day, and we chose this day for the Gun Buyback Program because too many mothers lose their children due to gun violence," Villaraigosa wrote on his Facebook page. "This is our opportunity to make a real difference for our children, our families, and our future."

LAPD Gun Unit officers will be at the six sites to classify surrendered firearms — anonymously. L.A. Deputy Mayor Guillermo Cespedes says the only aim is get illegal guns off the street. “We are not interested in anything other than people who voluntarily want to surrender illegal guns," says Cespedes. "We’re not concerned with legally owned guns. We’re not concerned with legally owned guns. We’re concerned with the number of illegal guns that are floating around neighborhoods that create crimes.”

Hm...I thought it was criminals that created crimes.

That aside, I do like that fact that they're not aiming this at legally owned firearms. One thing I find a bit puzzling, though...here's the picture that accompanies the article:



What, exactly, is that supposed to be?

[Glaug-Eldare]

1. Great way to ditch evidence and trash guns worth less than the gift cards

[petronius]

2. It looks like something that would normally be packaged with a G.I. Joe action figure

If they'll give gift cards in exchange for that, I'll be stopping at every Toys 'R' Us between here and LA...

[Johnny Rico]

4. It looks a bit like a toy of an M249 SAW. They can feed from a top-mounted M16 magazine.

[slackmaster]

21. I'm thinking Lego or Playmobil

GI Joe toy guns are more detailed and realistic.

[Meiko]

3. How many of the guns they

buy back will be returned to the market through gun show sales? It is a common practice.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

5. Another article

http://www.dailynews.com/news/ci_20603100/los-angeles-host-its-4th-annual-mothers-day

This one by staff writer Rick Orlov. I wonder if he's any relation to Yuri.

I wonder if the gift cards are general purpose Visa/Mastercards. If so they could used at the local gun store.

[TheCowsCameHome]

6. Good deal.

n/t

[Hoyt]

7. Looks like a marketer's preliminary mockup of a weapon designed to appeal to today's gun culture.

[AtheistCrusader]

32. Yeah, because nobody needs to be able to aim the fucking thing.

[Hoyt]

60. I see lots of gun culture youtube videos of fools blasting away without aiming.

I guess it is part of right of passage for those hooked on guns.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

8. a top feeder?

[gejohnston]

9. a couple of top feeders that I know of

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owen_submachine_gun
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bren_light_machine_gun

[Johnny Rico]

10. Also, the Stoner 63 LMG, Lewis Gun and the Russian DP

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoner_63
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_gun
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degtyaryov_machine_gun

Granted, the last two feed from a pan magazine...

[TPaine7]

11. Designed for people who don't like aiming—at least aiming using sights! n/t

[oneshooter]

12. The sights on a Bren gun were offset to the left

so the magazine did not get into the way.

Another top feeder with offset sights.

http://www.coltsmfg.com/Catalog/SpecialEditions/1877BulldogGatlingGun.aspx

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[ileus]

13. That gun contains all the evil aspects grabbers are afraid of.

Short barrel easier to conceal
muzzle break making it easier to keep under control during those spray and pray attacks
detachable magazine inserted from the much more scary top of the firearm
short stock making it much more dangerous
pistol grip makes any firearm super extra dangerous
pump action backup just in case the weapon jams during semi-auto firing

[Meiko]

14. and the most important one?????

It's black.

[petronius]

15. Not just black: black magic-scary undetectable *plastic*

At least it looks like plastic - it could also be a jujube or licorice or something...

[Glaug-Eldare]

16. I was thinking licorice, myself

[BiggJawn]

17. Yeah, Licorice

"Get me a stock pix of a black gun"

[Johnny Rico]

24. Black licorice...blech.

[BiggJawn]

25. Really...

Nasty-tasting stuff.

[BiggJawn]

18. Can you "legally own" a firearm in LA?

California has horseshit gun laws as it is, I would imagine it's harder in LA.

[slackmaster]

19. California state law preempts local ordinances on firearms

The city of Los Angeles has made it difficult to operate a business that sells firearms or ammunition, but in general the laws are uniform across the state.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

28. That may be changing

LA reps got tired of not being as abusive as Wash DC or Chicago. New laws in the works

[Glaug-Eldare]

29. They tried to break preemption here, too

Didn't pass, thank God. It's one of the few protections we've got, and even then it allows a lot of confusing laws to be grandfathered. No matter how restrictive a state is, people shouldn't have to be afraid of accidentally becoming criminals because they wandered into a county or municipality that might've enacted a new law that morning.

[slackmaster]

31. San Francisco has tried several times, and gotten smacked down in the courts

[slackmaster]

20. Criminals rejoice. Selling them to the LAPD is safer than throwing them into MacArthur Park Lake.

And you get a fabulous prize.

[Travis_0004]

22. I always wonder how sucessful these are.

I doubt a gang member would take a gun worth much a few hundred and trade it in for 1-200.

I went to a gun buy back once. Traded in an old broken H&R revolver worth 50.00 at the most, for a 150 gift card. And I put the money towards a glock.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

23. I guess in some places...

...the government is still subsidizing the militia.

[iverglas]

26. a very strange choice by whoever picks pics for articles

This one is found here (google images does its job):

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bricklegend/page6/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bricklegend/sets/72157627690630456/detail/

Bren Gun
Bren Light Machine gun mod made out of Brickarms.

http://www.brickarms.com/

BrickArms offers building toy-compatible custom weapons, weapons packs, and custom minifigs.

All BrickArms products are sized to perfectly fit your figs and designed and produced to meet the highest standards of quality. Each BrickArms toy will mesh seamlessly with your other building toys, and thousands of builders worldwide have used BrickArms to explore new ways of building and play.

I dunno about that "sized perfectly" part.

[Johnny Rico]

27. Well, it kinda-sorta reminds me of a Bren gun...

I agree that it's a very strange choice of picture for the article. Here's a real Bren gun:



Not exactly the same...

[ellisonz]

30. Proud of my city...

More guns that won't be used in domestic violence, stolen, used for crime, or accidentally discharged by a child.

[slackmaster]

34. ...or entered as evidence in a court of law, or sold on the legal market to raise revenue.

[DonP]

35. Or screened for crime involvement

The "No questions asked" turn in rules make it a great way to dump a gun used in a crime, knowing that it won't be checked for a ballistics match or fingerprints, will go straight to the smelting furnace and you get a nice debit card from the city in return for disposing of evidence.

That's all assuming that some cop doesn't take a liking to it and have it wind up in his sock drawer.

There's a lot to be proud of in gun "buy backs". Look at the great results in lower violent crime rates in all the cities holding them.

What?

Never mind.

[ellisonz]

36. Why are you more concerned with punishment than trying to reduce further crime?

Also, the odds that someone is going to turn in a gun they used in a homicide or other crime that is under ongoing investigation is very low. You might be talking about one weapon in thousands. Maybe.

That's all assuming that some cop doesn't take a liking to it and have it wind up in his sock drawer.

Without any evidence to substantiate this claim, you're completely pulling this out of your ass.

There's a lot to be proud of in gun "buy backs". Look at the great results in lower violent crime rates in all the cities holding them.

Probably for the most part the weapons were sold initially in other jurisdictions, and moreover the cities you are referring to are some of the most densely populated in the natio.

Fail.

[DonP]

37. We've had all of that happen at gun "Buy Backs" in Chicago

Several criminals that later admitted to having family turn in guns used in crimes as part of their plea bargains, a police captain caught with a 1st generation Colt SAA in his locker after a "Buy back". That's different from the cop that kept the Thompson that a family found while remodeling their home and was caught when the family asked the FBI for a receipt later. No, you can trust these guys, those were the exceptions, I'm sure.

But with the sterling track record of honesty and race relations of the LAPD in these matters, I'm sure that's never been a similar problem there.

(Or at least that's what gun control fans would like to think.)

By the way, all politicians are honest, hard working and honorable too.

[ellisonz]

38. Incidents happen, that doesn't mean it's predominant.

I would also say that every illegal gun taken off the street is one that won't be used to commit more crimes. You're more concerned with punishing the guilty than saving the innocent - how very noble!

[gejohnston]

39. problem is, how many are illegal at these turn ins?

If there were one around here, I would scour flea markets and pawn shops in search of junky cheap guns like Clerke and turn a profit. With the proceeds, I might pick up a Ruger Bearcat or a Walther P-99.

the gangster will get another gun. If the guilty is being punished, him and his gun are off the street. That saves innocent lives. That said, many of the victims are not innocent. While violent crime have been decreasing, the number being committed by gangs have been increasing.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-01-29-ms13_N.htm

[ellisonz]

40. *le sigh*

You do realize we already have the highest incarceration rate in the Western world? I would say easy availability of guns is a factor in that, removing crime guns from the neighborhood can't hurt. I don't know why the gunners are so against a good thing like gun buy backs, but it's not really based in logic. Your sentences there are really tap-dancing around the basic facts of life.

[gejohnston]

41. one thing

You do realize we already have the highest incarceration rate in the Western world?

Yes. We also have a serious organized crime problem.

I would say easy availability of guns is a factor in that, removing crime guns from the neighborhood can't hurt.

Actually, most people are in for non violent drug possession. Removing guns won't do shit.

I don't know why the gunners are so against a good thing like gun buy backs, but it's not really based in logic.

Partly because they are misnamed. Can't buy back what you never owned. The buy backs are not based on logic, and theater is never a good thing. I prefer my tax money be spent on things that actually do something.

Your sentences there are really tap-dancing around the basic facts of life.

No, you have a ways to go to understand the basic facts of life. "Common sense" and "stands to reason" is no match for actual life experience and education.

[ellisonz]

43. "We also have a serious organized crime problem."

And the gun nuts are fighting the regulations that would choke off their supply of arms!

Actually, most people are in for non violent drug possession. Removing guns won't do shit.

Not exactly, about half of the prison population is in for violent crime and most of the rest are repeat offenders. Low-level offenders don't generally go straight to prison.

In 2000, 22 percent of those in federal and state prisons were convicted on drug charges.4
http://www.hrw.org/legacy/backgrounder/usa/incarceration/

I prefer my tax money be spent on things that actually do something.

Taking illegally owned guns off the street is doing something. And with that you have completely contradicted yourself...

[gejohnston]

47. choke off their arms supply?

are you serious?
Most violent crime do not involve guns.

Not a contradiction at all. "Buy backs" are theater. Most of the ones sold are legally owned junk. Rusted rifles that the ex husband left behind 20 years ago, the Jennings .25 in grandma's sock drawer the kids didn't know about until the sold the house. Of course, there is the occasional ditch the hit piece. Many gangs still use community guns like the 19th century NYC and Boston gangs.

[ellisonz]

48. "Many gangs still use community guns like the 19th century NYC and Boston gangs."

Thank you for making my point.

[gejohnston]

53. how so?

Those guns don't get turned in for the most part. The ones dumped off at a "buy backs" are not community guns. The Sullivan Law was not passed until 1911. Tim Sullivan was a gangster himself. Boston gun laws were much later.

[NewMoonTherian]

44. That's an interesting point.

Buybacks don't really get me all that riled, one way or another. I don't think they're going to help much of anything, but as long as they're voluntary, I don't see them hurting. The money could be put to better use, but with about 6,000 guns turned in for $100 or $200 dollars a piece, that's less than $12,000 dollars in the past 3 years. Local governments waste more than that before breakfast.

[ellisonz]

46. Exactly.

I mean considering how much gun violence costs in terms of policing, destruction of families, and other economic impacts, gun buy backs are great bang for the buck. Now if only we could get the NRA and their Republican friends to stop obstructing common sense gun control reform...

[gejohnston]

50. since there is no evidence

of any gun control law actually doing anything anywhere in the world, what happens when these "common sense reforms" follow the historical trend and do nothing? Like umm Jamaica. Or Australia, where gun suicides dropped, but not suicides.

In the year 2002–2003, over 85% of firearms used to commit murder were unregistered.[27] In 1997–1999, more than 80% of the handguns confiscated were never legally purchased or registered in Australia.[28] Knives are used up to three times as often as firearms in robberies.[29] The majority of firearm-related deaths are suicides, of which many involved the use of 'hunting rifles'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Australia

[ellisonz]

52. Jamaica?

[gejohnston]

55. If your logic follows that

if stricter gun laws will lead to less gang and gun violence, that is a good example. UK style strict gun laws, not next door to Texas, and a murder rate seven times ours before the laws. Seven times the our murder rate after the gun laws, still mostly using guns. most of ours are gang related, so are theirs.

[ellisonz]

57. ...

Donald Rumsfeld is giving the president his daily briefing. He concludes by saying: "Yesterday, 3 Brazilian soldiers were killed."

"OH NO!" the President exclaims. "That's terrible!"

His staff sits stunned at this display of emotion, nervously watching as the President sits, head in hands.

Finally, the President looks up and asks, "How many is a brazillion?"

[gejohnston]

58. in other words

I'm right and you know it.

[petronius]

59. I think you skipped a couple of zeros: 6,000 guns at $200 each is $1.2 million

Not a lot, but it is an amount worth considering whether it could be used more effectively. Buybacks feel good, but I'd guess that much money could have a bigger effect if used to present a firearm safety program in local schools. Couple that with a free turn-in program for people who want to dispose of an old junker, and I think the net benefit would be higher than the current process...

[CokeMachine]

61. I just about posted the $600,00 to $1,200,000

Glad I read further before hitting post. I also believe that $$ could be used for better purposes such as helping the homeless, feeding the hungry and keeping a park or two open for a year. Here in Northern CA we are basically out of money and services are being cut more and more.

Cheers!!

[NewMoonTherian]

62. Dang! My mistake.

I had the right number in my head. I don't know what kind of bizarre brain fart caused me to make that typo. Thanks for the correction.

[DonP]

42. So finding the people that actually commit crimes with guns isn't that big a deal to you?

Interesting, for someone that seems to support more restrictions and punishment on the law abiding gun owners.

But I guess someone has to be the warm-hearted spokesperson for criminals that use guns.

Maybe the LA gangs will make you an honorary member now for standing up for their right to dispose of crime guns.

You could get one of those MS-13 padfolios for your I-Pad.

[ellisonz]

45. Is that spittle running down your chin? n/t

[DonP]

54. Not hardly

That would assume that any of us take your ill informed, illogical and generally unsupported posts on guns and gun control seriously.

Have a nice day at the Grad Student lounge.

[ellisonz]

56. Yeah that's spittle...

Do you say liberal like librul and then scowl while your right-eye twitches?

[ileus]

67. So what are you trying to say about DonP?

[ellisonz]

68. He clearly has anger issues. n/t

[PavePusher]

49. If you have any evidence that these events in any way "reduce further crime"...

please present it. We've been waiting for such for quite some time.

[ellisonz]

51. Do you have any evidence that reducing the amount of illegally owned guns hurts our society? n/t

[Simo 1939_1940]

63. Wrong question to ask.

If there is no empirical evidence that these gun buy-back programs work, wouldn't it be more sensible to spend the money in areas that we know do work?

Of course not. Because as always, gun restriction is not about protecting the public. It's about controlling guns.

[ellisonz]

64. Controlling guns is protecting the public.

There's no empirical evidence they don't work either, but common sense would lend itself to the belief that taking unwanted and unregistered guns out of neighborhoods is a good safety measure.

[oneshooter]

65. There are only a few states that require registration of firearms.

So your meme of "unregistered guns out of neighborhoods" really means nothing.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[Simo 1939_1940]

66. Ahhh........here we go..............

Another graduate of The University of It Stands to Reason.

Since the facts relating to any issue - not just the gun violence issue - are sometimes counter-intuitive, any arguments that leads with the phrase "common sense dictates" is weak tea at best.

[ellisonz]

69. Yeah I went to college...

I must be a *snob* !!!

[gejohnston]

70. so did I

but I think you missed the point. U of Stands to Reason is not accredited. Its critical thinking department parallels Bob Jones' Evolutionary Biology department.

[Simo 1939_1940]

71. Yeah - that's exactly what I implied.......

Dig yourself in deeper - go right ahead!

[AtheistCrusader]

33. Looks like some sort of mutant remington shotgun, merged with a bren gun.

I looked, didn't see any top-load pump actions or saigas.
It's definitely got a charging handle. And a pump. And a magazine tube...

wtf.