Flight attendant's gun goes off

[ileus]

http://overheadbin.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/09/24/14062641-flight-attendants-gun-goes-off-at-airport-security-in-philadelphia?lite


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

One strike and she's out...

[Berserker]

1. Another one?

"A police officer was called over to check out the gun. That's when it accidentally discharged, the spokesperson said."

It must have been a time gun, Those are very dangerous!

[Lurks Often]

2. Accidently went off?

Uh huh, not buying it. My guess is the police officer didn't have a clue how the flight attendent's gun worked and it went off while the police officer was handling it.

Of course the flight attendent should have done a better job checking her bags before heading to work.

[ileus]

3. All one has to remember is don't press the trigger.

[Eleanors38]

4. Or get a revolver. Nt

[GreenStormCloud]

43. The S&W airweight is a revolver.

The cop was stupid.

[trouble.smith]

48. "A police officer was called over to check out the gun. That's when it accidentally discharged"

I guess it was just some 1 in a trillion, freaky, almost magical event; whereby, the police officer approached the gun and at that very fucking moment the gun took it upon itself to just go off all by itself. fire that dumbass.

[Warren Stupidity]

5. Not to worry. More concealed carry everywhere.

What could possibly go wrong?

[friendly_iconoclast]

20. "What could possibly go wrong?" Not as much as you'd like people to think.

Fortunately, most people are not trapped in the gun control closed-information feedback loop and so do not get upset by the occasional dumbass and/or criminal concealed carrier.

[Warren Stupidity]

23. around 30,000 deaths per year each year on average

The correlation between firearm availability and rates of homicide is consistent across high income industrialized nations: where there are more firearms, there are higher rates of
homicide overall.
14
The U.S. has among the highest rates of both firearm homicide and
private firearm ownership. In 2001 an estimated 35% of U.S. households had a firearm.
15

http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/ficap/resourcebook/Final%20Resource%20Book%20Updated%202009%20Section%201.pdf

[hack89]

29. There were only 8,775 gun homicides in 2010

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10shrtbl08.xls

How about using honest numbers?

[Warren Stupidity]

30. deaths != homicides. now with data.

All firearm deaths
Number of deaths: 31,347
Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.2
Source: Deaths: Final Data for 2009, table 18 [PDF - 2.1 MB]
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/injury.htm

[hack89]

32. So why is your entire post about homicides and homicide rates?

In any case - half of those deaths are suicides. That is a mental health issue, not a criminal issue.

As for violent gun crime - we have cut gun homicide and manslaughter deaths in half since 1992. And the numbers and rates continue to fall. We are on the right track. You have never been safer.

[Warren Stupidity]

34. what. the. fuck?

I did not use the term 'homicide' until you mentioned it.

[hack89]

36. Here let me help you - I have bolded the appropriate words

Recognize the words?

The correlation between firearm availability and rates of homicide is consistent across high income industrialized nations: where there are more firearms, there are higher rates of
homicide overall.
14
The U.S. has among the highest rates of both firearm homicide and
private firearm ownership. In 2001 an estimated 35% of U.S. households had a firearm.
15

[Warren Stupidity]

37. try reading the link.

1. There are around 30,000 deaths from firearms per year in this country. Fact.
2. The correlation between firearm availability and rates of homicide is consistent across high income industrialized nations: where there are more firearms, there are higher rates of
homicide overall. Another fact.

Nowhere is the claim made that there are 30,000 homicides per year.

[Atypical Liberal]

45. I am completely unmotivated by suicides.

People who want to commit suicide, especially those serious enough to try with a firearm, who enjoy more overall success that way, by the way, will kill themselves firearms or not.

But in any case, I'm not going to allow suicide to be used as an excuse for gun control or infringing upon my rights.

[obxhead]

27. This weapon was discharged by a police officer.

It was no longer concealed and was being handled by a "professional."

Maybe the officer should have had the owner of the weapon properly unload it instead.

[Warren Stupidity]

31. oh excellent point.

far better that the other idiot accidentally carry onto a plane. What could possibly go wrong there?

[obxhead]

38. Hey, I'm not saying any of this situation was intelligent.

I'm just trying to get the facts of the issue straight.

A trained professional fucked up while handling a gun in plain sight.

[Jenoch]

39. Huh?

Did you READ the post to which you replied? The post said NOTHING about letting the flight attendant board the aircraft with the weapon. It did say maybe the cop should have let the CCW holder empty the revolver. Apparently, the cop was not familiar enough with revolvers to unload it properly.

[struggle4progress]

6. Flight Attendant Tries to Bring Loaded Gun Through Airport Security

... According to officials, at 6:33 a.m. today, the flight attendant entered a Terminal C security checkpoint lane with a loaded .38 caliber Smith and Wesson Airweight revolver in her purse.

A Transportation Security Administration employee discovered the gun on the x-ray machine and notified police.

The flight attendant was taken to a secondary screening room, where an airport police officer attempted to unload the gun, and it discharged into a wall ...

http://www.masoncountydailynews.com/news/national-news/39866-flight-attendant-tries-to-bring-loaded-gun-through-airport-security

[petronius]

7. How do you 'accidentally' fire a revolver while trying to unload it?

Doesn't seem like you need to go anywhere near the trigger - is there something unusual about the Airweight model?

Another thought is, why do police automatically unload firearms when they find them? If it was in a holster, why not just leave it there until you transport it to a place with a safe and solid backstop (bucket of sand, even) before any manipulation?

[PavePusher]

8. The operative phrase here is "clearing barrel"...

for which, yes, a bucket of sand is more than satisfactory.

In the military, there's one almost everywhere anyone handles firearms. I have one at my front door.

[struggle4progress]

10. Northeastern PA man tells police he accidentally shot wife after 'a day of drinking'

Published: Tuesday, September 11, 2012, 7:17 AM
Updated: Tuesday, September 11, 2012, 7:45 AM
NEWFOUNDLAND -- A man accused of killing his wife inside a filthy northeastern Pennsylvania home told police he accidentally killed her while unloading a gun after a day of drinking ...
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2012/09/northeastern_pa_man_tells_poli.html

[struggle4progress]

11. Las Cruces man acquitted in accidental shooting

By Brian Fraga/[e-mail]
Posted: 08/28/2012 03:07:17 PM MDT
... Lowe was trying to unload a sawed-off 12-gauge shotgun when he shot Torres, the driver, in the lower back, prosecutors said ...
http://www.lcsun-news.com/las_cruces-news/ci_21419238/las-cruces-man-acquitted-accidental-shooting

[struggle4progress]

12. Lamar County man accidentally shoots himself, but is in good condition

Posted on Aug 28, 2012
by Josh Allen
A man in Lamar County accidentally shot himself while attempting to unload a small caliber firearm at his home on Saturday, according to Lamar County Cheif Deputy, Scott Cass ...
http://www.eparisextra.com/911/2012/08/28/lamar-county-man-accidentally-shoots-himself-but-is-in-good-condition/

[struggle4progress]

13. Coventry Girl Killed in Accidental Shooting

Jenn Stanovich was accidentally shot by her brother, according to authorities.
By Bob Connors
Thursday, Jul 26, 2012 | Updated 2:21 PM EDT
A 6-year-old Coventry girl died Tuesday after being accidentally shot by her 13-year-old brother at their grandmother's house in Georgia, police said. According to the Monroe County Sheriff's Office, Jenn Stanovich, of 2891 Main Street in Coventry, was talking to her brother while he was unloading a rifle just after midnight Tuesday morning. The rifle fell to the ground and discharged, hitting Stanovich in the chest ...
http://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/local/Coventry-Girl-Killed-in-Accidental-Shooting-163892106.html

[struggle4progress]

14. Elkhart woman accidentally shot while unloading gun

July 27, 2012|WSBT-TV Report
ELKHART — A 46-year-old Elkhart woman told police when she tried to unload a Ruger .22 caliber pistol Friday afternoon, it fired and the bullet struck her lower left leg ...
http://articles.wsbt.com/2012-07-27/elkhart-woman_32894627

[struggle4progress]

15. Eight-Year-Old Accidentally Shot

A family member was unloading firearm when it accidently went off
By Natalie Lopez
Thursday, Jun 7, 2012 | Updated 1:42 PM EDT
An 8-year-old was accidentally shot Thursday while at his home in Loudoun County, deputies said. A family member of the victim was unloading his firearm at their home on the 38000 block of Stevens Road in Lovettsville, Va., when the firearm unintentionally went off, authorities said ...
http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Eight-Year-Old-Accidentally-Shot-157823015.html

[rDigital]

16. There is a difference between an accident and negligence. A big one. nt

[struggle4progress]

17. Plenty of folk regularly claim to have accidentally shot someone while unloading

[friendly_iconoclast]

18. Plenty of folk regularly confuse 'anecdote' with 'statistics'.

[struggle4progress]

19. When something happens again and again, that is not an anecdote

[friendly_iconoclast]

21. Have you got any data indicating that these 'accidents' are on the increase?

Without such information, your accounts remain anecdotes.

[Warren Stupidity]

24. the stats are horrible too. nt.

[GreenStormCloud]

26. No really. About one in half a million.

In 2007 while our population was a little over 300 miollion there were 613 accidental firearms deaths. That is not a high number for such a large population.

[Warren Stupidity]

33. 30,000 deaths per year from guns. 10/100,000.

[GreenStormCloud]

40. The topic was accidental gun deaths, not total gun deaths.

You are including muders and suicides. Murderers will still find a way to murder and people wo want to kill themselves will still find a way to do it.

[friendly_iconoclast]

49. And those are decreasing as well, thus hampering attempts at moral panic-mongering...

[rDigital]

22. That's what they "claim". Modern firearms by and large do not discharge under any other conditions

than that the trigger is being pulled.

However, they are violating many of the basic rules of firearms safety:
1. Treat every firearm as if it where loaded.
2. Keep your finger off of the trigger until ready to fire.
3. Never point the muzzle at something you are not willing to destroy.
4. Know your target and what's behind it.

These rules are so basic and important that they should be taught in public schools.

[ManiacJoe]

28. That is because ...

> Plenty of folk regularly claim to have accidentally shot someone while unloading

... plenty of folks do not want to admit to the police and to the press that they did something stupid like point a gun at something they did not want to shoot and pulled the trigger.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

46. Bingo!!

[spin]

52. S&W Airweight revolvers have an LONG and HEAVY trigger pull ...

The are also extremely easy to unload. You simply push the cylinder release latch and open the cylinder. You then tilt the gun upward and press the extractor rod and the cartridges fall out. You then count the rounds and visually check the cylinder to be certain that it is empty.

To view illustrations on how to unload a S&W revolver visit: http://www.corneredcat.com/Unload_and_Reload_Revolvers/

At NO time should your finger be near the trigger while you are unloading a revolver.

You ask an interesting question.

Another thought is, why do police automatically unload firearms when they find them? If it was in a holster, why not just leave it there until you transport it to a place with a safe and solid backstop (bucket of sand, even) before any manipulation?

Not all firearms are simple to unload and if you are unfamiliar with a certain weapon it might be wise to avoid unloading it until you could find a safe place with a device such as a bullet trap.

[ileus]

9. Well you can unload them by pulling the trigger, but it's not the safest way.

[GreenStormCloud]

25. I have an S&W airweight revolver.

Unloading the gun does not require touching the trigger. The gun can only be fired by pulling the trigger. The officer who handled the pistol was a dumbass who didn't know what he was doing.

Yet, there are posters here who want to restrict firearms to police & military.

[Warren Stupidity]

35. actually most of us want to restrict people from carrying guns everywhere

[Eleanors38]

41. "Us" ain't the U.S. And it ain't "most." nt

[Tuesday Afternoon]

47. lol

good one

[friendly_iconoclast]

50. But most of the people he listens to agree with him!

Doesn't that count for anything?

[GreenStormCloud]

42. Legal concealed carry saves more innocent lives than it takes.

In Texas the detailed statistics are compiled annually by the Department of Public Safety and published on the internet. It is likely that the Texas experience with Concealed Handgun Licenses would be about the same in other states. The last year for which statistics are published is 2011 for convictions. http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/rsd/chl/index.htm


In 2011 there were 512,625 people who had CHLs. Out of those people there were exactly four (4) murder convictions. That was a peak year. Usually there is only one. Out of the general population there were 553 convictions for murder in its various forms.

So very, very few CHL holders go bad, but some do.

The DPS also publishes an annual Crime in Texas Report. http://www.dps.texas.gov/crimereports/10/citCh3.pdf
From that report, page 15:

Statistics on murder circumstances, victims, and
victim/offender relationships on the next page
include justifiable homicides. Justifiable homicide
is the killing of a felon by a peace officer in the
line of duty or the killing (during the commission
of a felony) of a felon by a private citizen. In
2010, there were 98 justifiable homicides, of
which, 50 were felons killed by private citizens,
and 48 were felons killed by police.


In Texas all homicides, even those that are clearly self-defense, have to go before a grand jury which will rule if the killing was justified or not. So those 50 justified private citizen homicides were ones in which the defender genuinely and legitimately feared for his life. Since most shootings are merely woundings there would be a much larger number of justified woundings in which the defender genuinely feared for his life, but that number is not kept. Obviously there are dozens of cases each year in which a CHL holder uses their gun to save themselves.


Dozens of innocent lives saved versus four innocents killed shows the concealed carry is working in Texas. As already stated, there is no reason to believe that other CCW states have a different experience.


Legal concealed carry saves innocent lives.

[slackmaster]

44. Basic gun safety should be taught in public schools

For a negligent discharge to occur, one has to simultaneously violate at least two of the basic rules of firearm safety.

In this case, someone neglected to keep fingers off the trigger, AND failed to regard all guns as loaded.

The legality of failing to remove firearms from personal carry-on baggage is another issue.

[pipoman]

53. Maybe the cop thought it was a Glock

and needed the trigger pulled before disassembly?