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The Majority of Gun Owners are Law Abiding, Tax Paying Human Beings and that's WHY (Original Post) Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2012 OP
The problem is many aren't. n/t doc03 Nov 2012 #1
oh really. and how is it that you know this? Shall we define "many" ? Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2012 #4
Well I don't know exactly how many but we have these places called correctional facilities that are doc03 Nov 2012 #12
cite to source and link to data, thanks Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2012 #16
How f---g ridiculous, give you a link, there are thousands of people in doc03 Nov 2012 #25
it is not fact and you are extremely rude. disgustingly so. Have A Nice Day. Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2012 #28
It is a fact and it is pointless to argue with someone that just denies the doc03 Nov 2012 #32
who says I think that? You are wrong, sir and again I bid You Good Day. Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2012 #34
TV westerns are not documentaries. gejohnston Nov 2012 #35
If that is representative of your understanding of self-defense laws..... PavePusher Nov 2012 #40
What percentage of gun owners commit gun crimes? Numbers, please. PavePusher Nov 2012 #38
If you recognize that criminals are the problem, not guns trouble.smith Nov 2012 #19
So the guns aren't the problem, then what is the problem and what are we doc03 Nov 2012 #26
Here is a model that other urban areas are following: Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2012 #30
There are gun crimes committed that don't involve drugs. So you want to double down on a doc03 Nov 2012 #36
Fuck the NRA. I never said this was the only solution. Just like I never said it was the only Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2012 #37
what do you know about current laws? gejohnston Nov 2012 #39
Wow. PavePusher Nov 2012 #43
Can you please define in your opinion what a gun crime is ? former-republican Nov 2012 #44
You are the one wailing about some imagined problem, suggest a solution. n/t PavePusher Nov 2012 #41
An actual solution involves addressing certain social issues trouble.smith Nov 2012 #42
And most of those are criminals glacierbay Nov 2012 #7
They were law abiding before they committed a crime! upaloopa Nov 2012 #17
Every one is law abiding before committing a crime. glacierbay Nov 2012 #18
We're all pre criminals 4th law of robotics Nov 2012 #27
They may have also committed many crimes but weren't charged with a gun crime. doc03 Nov 2012 #29
Just a quick wiki check Hangingon Nov 2012 #20
Thank you for this in leui of doc03. Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2012 #31
whatever luvspeas Nov 2012 #2
sleep tight. Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2012 #5
Whatever what? glacierbay Nov 2012 #9
Post count builder? Hangingon Nov 2012 #21
I staunchly support the 2A glacierbay Nov 2012 #3
noted and complied. thanks. Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2012 #8
Many nations are peace-loving... ThatPoetGuy Nov 2012 #6
And that has what to do with the subject at hand? glacierbay Nov 2012 #10
I am hoping for an award winning Poem for a reply. Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2012 #11
Exactly. DanTex Nov 2012 #13
And his/her post has what to do with this thread? glacierbay Nov 2012 #14
Snark is all they have left. That and Meta. Show pity and Have mercy. - Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2012 #24
Wow, that's like - deep man. rrneck Nov 2012 #33
I support the 2A and pay all kinds of taxes. nt rDigital Nov 2012 #15
To pick a nit, I don't think tax paying should have anything to do with the exercise petronius Nov 2012 #22
perhaps, Voting would have been a better choice of words. Especially with the Election on Tuesday. Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2012 #23

doc03

(35,364 posts)
12. Well I don't know exactly how many but we have these places called correctional facilities that are
Sat Nov 3, 2012, 01:39 PM
Nov 2012

full of gun owners. So that means there are many gun owners that aren't exactly model citizens.

doc03

(35,364 posts)
25. How f---g ridiculous, give you a link, there are thousands of people in
Sat Nov 3, 2012, 06:22 PM
Nov 2012

prison that committed a gun crime. You need a f---g link, you say there aren't? Now come on you can't be so hard headed that you can't admit that many people that are gun owners haven't committed a crime and many are multiple offenders. With our current laws any convicted murderer that is released from prison can buy a gun at a gun show or on the street from an individual with no background check. It is fact and you can bs to you are blue in the face but it is a fact. If I have a gun I want to sell and Charlie Manson wants to buy it all he needs is the money and he is off to murder someone.

doc03

(35,364 posts)
32. It is a fact and it is pointless to argue with someone that just denies the
Sat Nov 3, 2012, 06:47 PM
Nov 2012

the truth. You don't think there should be any gun laws and just anyone should just be able to buy anything. I guess we should all carry a gun in a holster and have gun fights at high noon like old Dodge, City. I can gun someone down and my buddies say he drew in self defence and Marshall Dillon has to let me go. I can kill someone else the next day as long as I have some witness that says the other guy drew first.

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
35. TV westerns are not documentaries.
Sat Nov 3, 2012, 06:53 PM
Nov 2012

and no one said anything about being no gun laws, only maintaining the status quo. BTW, one street criminal selling to another is continues in DC, Chicago, Toronto, Kingston, London.........

I can gun someone down and my buddies say he drew in self defence and Marshall Dillon has to let me go. I can kill someone else the next day as long as I have some witness that says the other guy drew first.
I doubt any such duels actually happened and OC was not that common. I take it you don't view forensics as a real science?
 

PavePusher

(15,374 posts)
40. If that is representative of your understanding of self-defense laws.....
Sat Nov 3, 2012, 07:08 PM
Nov 2012

you should be forbidden from moving freely around society without an escort. You are clearly a danger to yourself and others.

 

PavePusher

(15,374 posts)
38. What percentage of gun owners commit gun crimes? Numbers, please.
Sat Nov 3, 2012, 07:00 PM
Nov 2012

As for the rest... well, we covered that already. Already illegal.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=83892

Something being illegal seems to have little bearing on criminals doing it anyway. WOuld you like to make it double-illegal?

What solutions do you propose?

 

trouble.smith

(374 posts)
19. If you recognize that criminals are the problem, not guns
Sat Nov 3, 2012, 02:29 PM
Nov 2012

then surely you must recognize that legislation directed at firearms and the law abiding citizens who possess them is nothing more than a thinly veiled excuse to strip away freedom from hard working, tax paying, law abiding citizens.

Tuesday Afternoon

(56,912 posts)
30. Here is a model that other urban areas are following:
Sat Nov 3, 2012, 06:39 PM
Nov 2012

Drugs, Race and Common Ground: Reflections on the High Point Intervention
by David Kennedy

Editor's Note: At the 2008 NIJ Conference, David Kennedy, director of the Center for Crime Prevention and Control at John Jay College of Criminal Justice, talked about his work to combat drug markets, especially the High Point Intervention, an innovative program that is now being replicated in at least 25 sites around the country. This article is based on his remarks.

When Chief James Fealy arrived in High Point, N.C., in 2003, he found parts of the city awash in drugs and dealers. But rather than relying on traditional suppression and interdiction approaches to fight the problem, Fealy — who had worked narcotics for more than a quarter of a century in the Austin (Texas) Police Department — spearheaded a new, potentially transformative strategy.

Its roots were in the now-familiar "focused deterrence" approach, which addresses particular problems — in this case drug markets — by putting identified offenders on notice that their community wants them to stop, that help is available and that particular criminal actions will bring heightened law enforcement attention. The High Point initiative, however, added the unprecedented — and initially terrifying — element of truthtelling about racial conflict. The result of these conversations in High Point was twofold: a plan for doing strategic interventions to close drug markets and the beginning of a reconciliation process between law enforcement and the community.

Here is how the High Point Intervention works: A particular drug market is identified; violent dealers are arrested; and nonviolent dealers are brought to a "call-in" where they face a roomful of law enforcement officers, social service providers, community figures, ex-offenders and "influentials" — parents, relatives and others with close, important relationships with particular dealers. The drug dealers are told that (1) they are valuable to the community, and (2) the dealing must stop. They are offered social services. They are informed that local law enforcement has worked up cases on them, but that these cases will be "banked&quot temporarily suspended). Then they are given an ultimatum: If you continue to deal, the banked cases against you will be activated.

This strategy is being replicated in other cities by the Bureau of Justice Assistance through the Drug Market Intervention Initiative.

more at link:
http://www.nij.gov/journals/262/high-point-intervention.htm

doc03

(35,364 posts)
36. There are gun crimes committed that don't involve drugs. So you want to double down on a
Sat Nov 3, 2012, 06:57 PM
Nov 2012

failed war on drugs. so to solve a problem with gun crime you go after drugs, how about enacting some sensible gun laws? This is the last post on the subject I find people in the RKBA have one agenda (NRA) and they won't accept any laws on guns or gun ownership period.

Tuesday Afternoon

(56,912 posts)
37. Fuck the NRA. I never said this was the only solution. Just like I never said it was the only
Sat Nov 3, 2012, 07:00 PM
Nov 2012

problem. Don't hurt your head, now.

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
39. what do you know about current laws?
Sat Nov 3, 2012, 07:00 PM
Nov 2012

I have no problem with most current laws. After adding more restrictions become "there are no laws" meme five years later? I'm guessing it will. Not accepting any gun laws means repealing current ones.

 

PavePusher

(15,374 posts)
43. Wow.
Sat Nov 3, 2012, 07:17 PM
Nov 2012
I find people in the RKBA have one agenda (NRA) and they won't accept any laws on guns or gun ownership period.


Then I can only assume that you are cognitively deficient, functionally illiterate or deliberately obtuse. Most people here will have nothing to do with the NRA, and the few members here almost universally have deep disagreements with some of their actions and many of their statements.

If you'd actually pay attention to what people are saying, you'd figure that out.

P.S. No-one here advocated "go after drugs". More reading skills problems?
 

trouble.smith

(374 posts)
42. An actual solution involves addressing certain social issues
Sat Nov 3, 2012, 07:11 PM
Nov 2012

that our elected officials are incapable of addressing i.e. unemployment, urban decay, poverty, racial disparity, high school drop out rates, gang and other organized criminal activity, drug abuse, border insecurity, etc, etc, etc. The issues are too big for our government which is why America is bordering on a failed state. That being the case, the next best solution is to arm the populace and allow them to defend themselves as free men and women living in a free country. Or you can go after the guns but you'll lose that battle and the cost you'll pay for waging the wrong war against the wrong people will be more unemployment, more decay, more disparity, more poverty, more ruin.

 

glacierbay

(2,477 posts)
7. And most of those are criminals
Sat Nov 3, 2012, 01:27 PM
Nov 2012

who aren't law abiding. The vast majority of gun owners are responsible citizens who use their firearms responsibly, IE, hunting, shooting sports, self defense, home defense, target shooting, enjoyable day at the range with friends/family.

 

glacierbay

(2,477 posts)
18. Every one is law abiding before committing a crime.
Sat Nov 3, 2012, 02:28 PM
Nov 2012

The driver is law abiding until they get drunk and get behind the wheel of a car.
The pedestrian is a law abiding citizen until they jaywalk.
Care to impart more of you wisdom to us?

 

4th law of robotics

(6,801 posts)
27. We're all pre criminals
Sat Nov 3, 2012, 06:33 PM
Nov 2012

The trick is to find a way to work that fact in to the law so we can dispense with the ridiculous formality of a trial before stripping citizens of their rights.

doc03

(35,364 posts)
29. They may have also committed many crimes but weren't charged with a gun crime.
Sat Nov 3, 2012, 06:38 PM
Nov 2012

There are also people that committed a serious gun crime or even murder that can buy a gun
from an individual with no background check either. If an individual wants to sell a gun he should be able to go to the courthouse or and authorized dealer and have them run a background check on the buyer. I think all guns should be registerd, I own several guns and I have absolutely no problem with that either because I am a law abiding tax paying citizen.

Hangingon

(3,071 posts)
20. Just a quick wiki check
Sat Nov 3, 2012, 04:39 PM
Nov 2012

Census data puts gun owner at 43 to 55 miooion - based on homes with guns. DOJ says 2010 people incarcerated is about 4.9 million. Not all prisoners are in for crimes involving guns.

 

glacierbay

(2,477 posts)
14. And his/her post has what to do with this thread?
Sat Nov 3, 2012, 01:43 PM
Nov 2012

Other than being a snark? Maybe you can explain what it means?

petronius

(26,603 posts)
22. To pick a nit, I don't think tax paying should have anything to do with the exercise
Sat Nov 3, 2012, 04:57 PM
Nov 2012

of any civil right or freedom. But other than that, I agree that individuals should have the right to feed, protect, and/or amuse themselves however they see fit - and limitations on that should be as narrow as possible to meet a pressing societal need...

Tuesday Afternoon

(56,912 posts)
23. perhaps, Voting would have been a better choice of words. Especially with the Election on Tuesday.
Sat Nov 3, 2012, 05:15 PM
Nov 2012

Drives home the point even better, too.

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