Obama DOJ Asks Court to Grant Immunity to George W. Bush For Iraq War
FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)Fuck immunity for any POTUS who commits illegal acts in office.
cactusfractal
(496 posts)But I doubt it is.
Autumn
(45,066 posts)cactusfractal
(496 posts)roguevalley
(40,656 posts)As a low point in my thinking about Mr. Obama, this rates right there with his comment to GHW Bush that America is a 'kinder, gentler country' because of him.
last1standing
(11,709 posts)History may soon repeat itself.
Autumn
(45,066 posts)This is sad. What a waste.
last1standing
(11,709 posts)But he chose this path with all the facts before him. He decided to sell out the American people so history will likely judge him accordingly.
JoeyT
(6,785 posts)From the article:
Plaintiff Sundus Shaker Saleh, an Iraqi single mother and refugee now living in Jordan, filed a complaint in March 2013 in San Francisco federal court alleging that the planning and waging of the war constituted a crime of aggression against Iraq, a legal theory that was used by the Nuremberg Tribunal to convict Nazi war criminals after World War II.
"The DOJ claims that in planning and waging the Iraq War, ex-President Bush and key members of his Administration were acting within the legitimate scope of their employment and are thus immune from suit, chief counsel Inder Comar of Comar Law said.
The entire gang of war criminals, kidnappers, torturers, and thieves. I'm sure someone will be along to defend it shortly.
cactusfractal
(496 posts)dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)A topic they have not admitted till now.
scooter rider
(80 posts)The DOJ did.
"They" aren't admitting anything.
dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)The DOJ is clearly acting on behalf of the war criminals, or else why bother to ask for immunity for people who are not even in gov't anymore?
AnotherDreamWeaver
(2,850 posts)of DemocraticUnderground?
I hope not, but we shall see...
cactusfractal
(496 posts)Is this where I should've put it? It isn't mainstream, so I didn't put it in LBN. I think this needs attention, though.
JoeyT
(6,785 posts)It isn't local, and it's current.
It would definitely fit in GD, too. It'll get more exposure in either one, as well as screaming defenses from people that suddenly think Bush totally never broke any laws.
Autumn
(45,066 posts)cactusfractal
(496 posts)Autumn
(45,066 posts)cactusfractal
(496 posts)Autumn
(45,066 posts)cactusfractal
(496 posts)calimary
(81,225 posts)That is OUTRAGEOUS!!!! That's perhaps the biggest thing that's disappointed me about President Obama. He hasn't done anything to bring bush/cheney to justice! This is FUCKED.
cactusfractal
(496 posts)Fucked. Wholly, entirely, well and truly, irrevocably fucked.
Mira
(22,380 posts)I WILL NEVER forgive it. I find President Obama more than intelligent, charming, personable, wonderful with babies, gives great speeches when prepared, and mostly heart felt good speeches on the cuff. He has been a President with heart and with caring.
Yet - there is this ongoing absence of a spine, the turning into a politician to forever swear me off ever trusting one ever again. He has shown me that if I were to be sworn in as President, go through "orientation" and start to govern, within a week I would not recognize myself. And I would not be trustworthy to be relied on for what I promised to do.
I will NEVER forgive the above. I will continue to believe with all my gut that the fact Bush/Cheney et al are getting away with so much evil is the worst thing that has happened to us in the modern world, maybe ever.
Not having immediate investigation, and the obviously needed follow up of incarceration and a world court makes us subject to it happening all over again and ever so much worse. And President Obama not having what it takes, even now in re-election victory, is making all of them and all of it subject to a stench I cannot tolerate.
I'm not having a good day on this subject!
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)I know everyone wants this, but I don't think it is a good idea for the country. First of all, it would consume Obama's entire Presidency. A lot of work would be involved in the case and DOJ, DoD, and many other agencies would only be dealing with this. Plus, what if the jury finds President Bush not guilty or the judge or whatever. What would we have gained. If you think the Republicans don't do anything now, can you imagine what they would be like if their was a trial going on? The government would grind to a halt and President Obama would be very busy with the case and nothing else.
historylovr
(1,557 posts)That is exactly what this country needs. Giving immunity to these war criminals sends a message that this is okay, that our country's founding ideals aren't worth the ink used to write them. What would we have gained if a jury found Bush not guilty? Respect, dignity, humanity. We would show the world that we are not the rogue nation we are enthusiastically becoming. Democrats need to stop wussing out of doing the right thing because they're afraid of what the nasty Republicans might say or do. We need to open this wound and clean out the rot or this country is finished.
dougolat
(716 posts)calimary
(81,225 posts)Glad you're here! I can understand your point. But there are exceptionally valid points going the other way.
First of all, some here have already posted about how failing to prosecute, or send 'em to the Hague for a war crimes tribunal (which is what SHOULD happen since these were INTERNATIONAL crimes), would send a message that this behavior was okay and that the next guy or gal in charge could just dance along down that path with impunity - and worse, knowing nobody's gonna do anything about it and blah-blah-blah. It'd be open season for any future President to be as thuggish as he or she wanted to, citing the cover of national security, and nobody'd do a thing. There would be no checks, no balances, no restraints keeping them from stepping as far out of line as they felt like doing.
It also reinforces apathy, non-vigilance, and the notion that we as citizens - the people the President SERVES (let's not forget - the President is a PUBLIC SERVANT) have no voice and no recourse. No accountability. Move along + nothing to see here + no corrective action + no penalties or consequences for bad behavior = dictatorship, a silenced public, nobody gives a damn anymore, and among other things, they stop voting.
Further, I'm old enough to remember when President Ford pardoned nixon. That left an oozing wound behind that we still haven't gotten over, as a nation. Granted, that's true mainly for history buffs and those of us old enough to remember when President Ford pardoned nixon - and for all the things he was pardoned for. Younger folks don't care that much 'cause they didn't live it, and didn't see the outrage and the skulduggery and criminality, and abuse of power at the highest levels. At least SOME of those bastards went to prison! Gerry Ford always said he remained convinced he did the correct thing because it did allow America to move on from Watergate and not obsess. But it dealt a mortal wound to the character of this nation and to our system of justice, compromised our honor, and only reinforced the idea that the really powerful can and in some cases should be allowed to get away with it. And he did finally concede that it was the prime reason why he only got two years in the White House - whatever was left of nixon's second term - and failed to win the Presidency on his own. When he was appointed Vice President after nixon's then-veep, spiro agnew, resigned in disgrace, Ford stated that he was keenly aware that he had not arrived there by the vote of the people. So when the rest of nixon's second term ran out, Ford ran for his own term, and had his ass handed to him.
Baitball Blogger
(46,703 posts)These people take these risks into account.
And I fear Obama's legacy will be diminished for this, because he's standing in the way.
cactusfractal
(496 posts)gopiscrap
(23,758 posts)one of the things that really pissed me off about Obama was that he didn't go after these war mongering pigs
Catherina
(35,568 posts)Richard D
(8,754 posts)Such a disappointment. Truly unforgivable.
Mira
(22,380 posts)that I'm so disgusted I might throw up.
REALLY
Richard D
(8,754 posts)Really helps having the DU community here when something like this happens.
silvershadow
(10,336 posts)navarth
(5,927 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Just look at Clinton dropping all charges against Reagan and Poppy Bush criminals in the name of civility.
And just look at the good it did for him as they payed him back when they impeached his ass.
This pattern will repeat until Democrats admit that criminality is not a "policy position".
Arctic Dave
(13,812 posts)Truly puke inspiring but to expected from Obama anymore.
navarth
(5,927 posts)I am discouraged.
delrem
(9,688 posts)The US knows what it's into now.
At any rate those who have the capacity know.
I hear that the USA, that bastion of democracy, is wondering what Rep candidate will be put forward in opposition to Hillary Clinton.
It's to laugh, or cry...
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)Every time I think I could not be more disappointed with Obama, he ups the anti,
and pulls a stunt like this and proves me wrong.
Apparently Obama has been accepted into "The Club" (aka the Bush Crime Syndicate)
that George Carlin used to talk about.
How nice for his family.
Iliyah
(25,111 posts)And don't complain please 2014.
DallasNE
(7,402 posts)Written to protect Cap Weinberger in Iran-Contra?
I know it was successfully used to protect Yoo for writing the legal opinion that torture was legal by simply renaming it as enhanced interrogation techniques. It is the law that prevents people from being held accountable for their actions that they should have known were illegal.
"acting within the legitimate scope of their employment" That sounds like if the President does it, it is legal but Richard Nixon found out that that was not the case back during Watergate. The Westfal Act may have stood that on its head.
What is unclear to me is how a law passed by Congress can trump International Law.
dickensknitter
(24 posts)Yep, I had really hoped when initially voting for him, that Obama, vaunted as a prof of constitutional law, would do something to reestablish justice in the most
Grotesque matter of our most recent wars.
I was disappointed that he did nothing; I am spitting with disgust at this turn.
Sometimes I fantasize, from my place of feeling otherwise powerless, about regularly mailing them old stinky worn out shoes at all of their various addresses.
W. keeps winning the trifecta.
progressoid
(49,988 posts)blackspade
(10,056 posts)Another DOJ ass covering for the Bushistas.
This is a new low.
gtar100
(4,192 posts)Immunity from prosecution... none of them deserve it. They are not giving anything in exchange for it. They are just a bunch of cowards unwilling to take responsibility for themselves. Boot straps, my ass!
That Obama would sign off on such a thing is a clear indication where his loyalties lie. Do you think he could piss on his Nobel Peace Prize any more than he already has? It would be a shockingly pleasant surprise if he turned around and said hell no, but that would be a little out of character for him when it comes to his dealings with the Bush criminals.
countmyvote4real
(4,023 posts)That caucus would rather repeatedly deny millions of citizens affordable health insurance rather than prosecute war crimes at the highest levels. And the irony is that Obama could be impeached for this attempted cover-up while the Busch conspirators still remain free. Oh look, a new puppy. A pox on both their houses.
MotherPetrie
(3,145 posts)It circled around and bit its own self in the ass. A permanent infected stinking wound.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)idwiyo
(5,113 posts)TBF
(32,056 posts)What is wrong with this statement?
snappyturtle
(14,656 posts)Why didn't this request happen when we first learned that
everything of this nature was off the table...2009? Why
now?
I have my suspicions. Can't help but think this isn't
another desperate effort on the part of gov't in reaction to
it's fear of the people awakening. imho
Hotler
(11,420 posts)Hydra
(14,459 posts)But I see a very ugly future...in the very near future.
Hydra
(14,459 posts)1 for the little people, and one for them.
Eh, rule of law was overrated. We needed to go back to rule of decree and aristocracy.
<--- since it's needed these days
Agony
(2,605 posts)Equinox Moon
(6,344 posts)I did an internet search and did not find anything current on it.
Thanks.