I don't know what the hell is wrong with DU right now.

[Tobin S.]

Last edited Sun Dec 28, 2014, 09:46 AM - Edit history (1)

*****ATTENTION: THIS IS POSTED IN THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN GROUP*****

It doesn't look like it is possible to talk about black issues right now without spawning a barrage of threads bemoaning racism against white folks. I have been a member of DU for a long time and I don't remember a time before now when there was basically a virtual race war going on in GD. I'd like to think that it was mostly due to trolls, but I know that's not the case.

*White people here do not seem to understand that without the black community the Democratic party is powerless*

That fact alone should make white liberals very open to and understanding of black issues. However, ignorance abounds basically because people can't open their minds long enough to listen and consider ideas that are probably foreign to them. Yes, that takes effort.

I do not have the solutions to solve all of the problems regarding race in America. I do know one thing, though. As a white person it is very important for me to have an open mind on the issue. What that basically means for me is shutting up about it and really listening to black people. I wish more white people would do the same, but apparently it's too much to ask.

[1StrongBlackMan]

1. Black folks here have been the long dead canaries in the DU coal mine ...

what you are observing is what Black folks on DU have long been lamenting.

I do not have the solutions to solve all of the problems regarding race in America. I do know one thing, though. As a white person it is very important for me to have an open mind on the issue. What that basically means for me is shutting up about it and really listening to black people. I wish more white people would do the same, but apparently it's too much to ask.

That would go a long way to resolving the race problems in America.

ETA: Now ... Brace yourself ... you guilt ridden race traitor!

[JDPriestly]

7. I think that many of us white folks are shutting up about and really reading the posts of

our black contributors.

That said.

The posts that are offending our black brothers and sisters on DU are, since the rest of us are just reading and "listening" posted by people who have not yet worked through or recognized their own inner conflicts about racism.

As I have said many times, we are increasingly a society that is not just white and black but rather a society of people of mixed race.

And when people start checking out their DNA, they are likely to discover to what extent they, as Americans are already of mixed race. So many Americans think they are just one race but actually have ancestors of other races.

Please understand that most white people just don't know what to do about racism. It's like a cultural wave, a tsunami that reaches us and touches us all but that is beyond the control of the individual. It's an aching problem for many of us. It is an opportunity to be cruel for a great many. It is an issue to ignore for most.

But the offensive posts on DU do not reflect the majority view of whites on DU who just feel powerless at the hate and lack of understanding.

[steve2470]

9. +1 nt

[Scuba]

49. + another

[Anansi1171]

103. +100. Thanks for listening with an open-mind! Nt

[cilla4progress]

2. No, I'm on board with you BOTH!

I haven't read the threads you are discussing, but it pisses me off to think of white people not recognizing white privilege. It sounds like this is what you are referring to.

I think we need to have in this country, as they did in S. Africa, a "Truth and Reconciliation Commission" for African-Americans, Native Americans, and other ethnic groups that have sustained foul oppression on coming here.

Reparations? Yes, should be seriously weighed.

I think until we face our demons and own up to our treatment of ethnic minorities in this country, there will always be rot at the center of our democracy.

[upaloopa]

3. Because someone is Black that doesn't

mean they are infallible. Shut up if you want to but don't run other's lives for them.

[Tobin S.]

4. Holy shit!

Well, I'm a trucker from Indiana. I have enough of a problem running my own life to be concerned about yours.

Nobody said anything about anyone being perfect. The main problem is that a lot of white people aren't open enough to consider black issues without getting defensive, as you have perfectly illustrated.

[upaloopa]

11. You don't know shit about me.

Your blanket statements and definition of me after only a few words shows your inability to deal with reality.
You feel good saying what you want fine but realize it is your opinion not truth.

[Tobin S.]

15. I haven't claimed to know anything about you!

You seem to be the one have a hard time dealing with reality. I have definitely struck a nerve here. I know that's true.

You have a problem with me asking white people to open their minds to what black people have to say. That's definitely true. That's real.

[TeamPooka]

22. His opinion. Your reaction makes it truth. nt

[Tommymac]

48. DingDingding We have a winner! Upaloopa - you just proved the OP's point.

Have an Exciting and Interesting New Year!

[marym625]

119. No jumping on the couch!

[Tommymac]

128. Sorry Mom. Got a bit carried away.

[marym625]

129. OK then

As long as we're clear.

[marble falls]

79. Actually, you start to get to know someone with 5,500+ posts. We're getting to know each other.

[JustAnotherGen]

52. Thank you for your OP

You get it.

[Cha]

63. Right.. who knew.. a perfect example would pop up on this thread?

[JustAnotherGen]

66. Like this one?

upaloopa (5,572 posts)
3. Because someone is Black that doesn't

mean they are infallible. Shut up if you want to but don't run other's lives for them.

And this one?

In the discussion thread: I don't know what the hell is wrong with DU right now. [View all]
Response to Tobin S. (Reply #4)Sat Dec 27, 2014, 04:58 PM
upaloopa (5,572 posts)
11. You don't know shit about me.

Your blanket statements and definition of me after only a few words shows your inability to deal with reality.
You feel good saying what you want fine but realize it is your opinion not truth.

[Cha]

67. Precisely, Gen.. it never fails. They cannot help themselves, even in the AA Group. It's all about

them and how infallible they are.

[randys1]

106. You hit it on the nose there, racism is a white and white ONLY problem in america and most white

folks in america, including liberals, are so selfish when it comes to guarding white privilege, and to some extent this even applies to liberal whites like myself and others here.

We were born with a privilege that is so encompassing that we cant see it ourselves and yet it is glaringly obvious to the non white Americans.

[ellenrr]

84. +

[1StrongBlackMan]

151. As you see/will see ...

every mention of any Black injustice will be met with a chorus of white DUers that take it as an accusation directed at them personally.

[JustAnotherGen]

170. You saw it too eh?

[bravenak]

6. They may know more about black issues than you do though.

So, infallible or not, we know about our issues than you so rather than be nasty in the African American group, you can politely not accuse posters in this group of trying to run YOUR life. This is a group, not a forum.

[JustAnotherGen]

53. I warned him brave - no more "shut up" or he will be blocked

[bravenak]

57. Good.

I do not like it one bit!

[brer cat]

8. You are posting in a group,

not GD. If you can't be civil and respectful, you don't need to be here. There was absolutely no need to piss on Tobin S's thread.

[upaloopa]

13. I didn't piss on anyone's thread.

This blanket description of White people is what is wrong with so much here at DU.
Unless you get in line behind all the condemnations you are pissing on someone.

[BainsBane]

16. Your responses in this thread

reveal a great deal about who you are.

[Raine1967]

39. Your words are right there for everyone to see, you certainly did pee in this thread, & this GROUP.

Let me quote you:

This blanket description of White people is what is wrong with so much here at DU.
Unless you get in line behind all the condemnations you are pissing on someone.

You just made the point that the OP was making.

and you clearly aren't aware that he wasn't talking about all white people on DU. You sure don't speak for me, so stop acting like you do, please.

[Raine1967]

45. Let me make this clear: You don't speak for me. and as far as a 'blanket description':

Who appointed you the spokesperson for white people??

[JustAnotherGen]

54. You most certainly did

[sheshe2]

71. Yes you did, for everyone to see.

This is a group not a forum, take a deep breath control your emotions and post here nicely. If not don't post in AA go to GD.

As for the blanket description of White people being wrong?

I didn't piss on anyone's thread.


This blanket description of White people is what is wrong with so much here at DU.
Unless you get in line behind all the condemnations you are pissing on someone.

I am white, never thought for a minute someone tossed a blanket over me. Analyze this 101. Why is it you feel this way?

[marble falls]

81. As opposed to your blanket references to black people, ie: "them"? Your problem is the correct ....

pronoun is "us". That we aren't "us" yet isn't that they've stayed out, but they've been kept out, and because we haven't had much history of listening and hearing, and too much history reacting and shouting back.

I've always known that there were enough racists out there that if a job or apartment were open to me and any black person in the world, it was almost always going to fall my way. Someone with white privilege was going to make the choice and me by virtue of being white was benefiting by my own white privilege.

Didn't want it, didn't ask for it, didn't even realize what it was until too, too recently. Look at my posting now, I get it and I am working hard to be 'us'.

[heaven05]

121. You just go on and on

being transparently WRONG. DU is fine, the AA group is fine, you're not.

[notadmblnd]

14. What does that even mean?

Just remember, if you choose to not be part of the solution, then you are a part of the problem and your participating in this conversation IMO, will benefit no one.

[ncjustice80]

23. Wow how disrspectful to OP! This is exactly what he was talking about.

[JustAnotherGen]

50. Group Host weighing in

Dont tell anyone else to "shut up" or I'm blocking you.

Play nice.

This is the AA Group - take what you need and leave the rest.

[still_one]

158. Just one point this is a specific forum for sanctuary from the general

Discussion board to allow like minded folks to discuss issues. The Hillary group should not have anti Hillary folks in discussions in that group as an example

[steve2470]

5. two kinds of trolls: paid and unpaid

I'm very confident there's at least one paid troll on DU, because it just makes sense from the RNC perspective. Probably more than that. From a conservative and Republican point of view, why not disrupt the largest Democratic Party-oriented (not endorsed or affiliated, of course) on the internet ?

Unpaid trolls, plenty of them. They love to argue (not discuss), be snarky, be disrespectful, get people hidden, and in extreme cases get people PPR'ed. From what I've seen, they are 100% white (or that's what they claim). It was interesting who did not rec my giant thread about welcoming black people back to DU and who did not comment. It's interesting who NEVER recs or positively comments in racism-related threads. It's interesting who never starts a positive racism-related thread. One can judge for oneself from all pieces of evidence.

I'm a white guy also. I also believe in listening and learning. I'm still learning about cultural appropriation versus cultural assimilation, so I'm not commenting on those threads. What I do know is, we white people need to be respectful and listen. We always need to be respectful. You're a good guy, Tobin, and I'm glad you're here. Some of the other white people, imho, need to leave DU. If one cannot respect black people, one needs to leave DU and leave the Democratic Party. It's just that simple.

[yuiyoshida]

12. Wish I could rec your posting

and agree with what was being said by Tobin-san as well kanzen ni doi suru!!(I totally agree!!)

[steve2470]

35. the same goes for Asian-American related threads

We of European ancestry need to listen and learn, and be respectful above all.

[JustAnotherGen]

55. Plus 1000

[BainsBane]

17. The listening and learning part

Is what they refuse to do. We have had many threads telling feminists they don't do feminism right. Now we have one telling black people they don't do blackness right. The hubris is incredible.

[steve2470]

28. yep I agree nt

[BlancheSplanchnik]

36. seriously

smh

[randys1]

108. Many paid trolls all over the internet, and their main job is to get Democrats NOT to vote in 2016

but they also like to fan the flames of racism, they are employed by vicious and disgusting racist pig fucks, teaparty, etc.

[Agschmid]

163. I don't believe it for a minute.

Just because someone disagrees with you does not mean they are paid to do so.

You need to remember than some people are just assholes.

And to a jury that asshole comment is not directed at anyone but the people who troll websites for fun.

[randys1]

167. they call into liberal radio shows ALL the time, they are here too

[Agschmid]

189. Yup and they are called assholes, they aren't paid trolls.

The assertion is rediculous.

[randys1]

202. Thom Hartmann is the one who asserted it, and I agree. Maybe he would know more

than you, maybe?

You dont think the Rove's and Koch's of the world arent trying to influence social media?

Of course they are.

[Agschmid]

203. I'm saying they don't need to pay to do it...

Why would they pay for a service they can get for free?

They are republicans after all.

[randys1]

205. I agree but I listen to tons and tons of liberal talk radio and hear the same 7 or 8 voices

calling in on any topic that ALEC or the Koch's or Rove would find important, and they all say similar things.

It is a script they are reading form, no doubt about it.

ACA is a perfect example, documented dozens of callers, calling over and over to all the shows constantly.

[heaven05]

124. +1000

[jeff47]

10. That's kinda true for many topics

Post a "Here's why people didn't turn out" thread, and you get a river of people screaming at you.
Post a "non-voters should STFU" thread, and you get a river of people screaming at you.

Post a "I'm not really a fan of Clinton" thread, and you get a river of people screaming at you.
Post a "I'm really a fan of Clinton" thread, and you get a river of people screaming at you.

Post a "Racist cops are a huge problem" thread, and you get a river of people screaming at you.
Post a "Not all cops are bad" thread, and you get a river of people screaming at you.

And so on.

We're in the middle of a shift in our party. The old guard is failing to accomplish it's goals. That's causing some people to attack the old guard. The people who make up that group and their allies lash back.

As a result, you'll find someone to be overly defensive and abusive on pretty much any topic. I suspect I could get someone to chew me out if I posted a thread that only said "It was sunny today".

(Disclaimer: White dude. Things may be soaring over my head)

[marble falls]

82. WTF!?!? It's raining!

[kioa]

105. It's almost as if people going on a political chat want to chat about politics...

and it's far easier to chat about disagreements than things agreed upon (after all there's only so many ways to say, "Yeah, what you said&quot

Some people seem to find any sort of disagreement as a negative, when in actuality without disagreement, nobody would really have anything to say.

Completely agree with you.
In other words, "Yeah, what you said".

[Spitfire of ATJ]

18. I just did a test post on class warfare and got some denials.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026010121

[DeSwiss]

19. Don't worry.....

...as long as we're talking.

- Then it can get better.

When the blacks in the crowd that are protesting against racism only make-up 12% -- then we won't have to protest much longer. And that's the thing that has been more impressive to me than anything. Seeing white crowds, absent of any blacks, proclaiming that black lives matter to them. Never thought I'd see that.

White people must be the ones protesting against racism. That's where it began and it is the only way it'll ever end.

K&R

[center][/center]

[War Horse]

20. Shut up and just listen

that always goes a long way, in any context. Good OP.

[Doctor_J]

21. Where is the barrage of threads bemoaning black-on-white racism?

I peruse the Greatest page and don't see such threads (at least OPs). In fact I mostly see the opposite - lots of threads bashing the NYPD for their disrespect of the mayor and so forth. Where do you see the barrage of which you speak?

[bravenak]

25. What's this about?

Do you have to come here to the AA group to be nasty? We deal with enough nastiness, it will not be tolerated here.

[Doctor_J]

29. I saw the thread on the Greatest page, clicked on it, and would like to be pointed to some of the

barrage of threads about which the OP speaks. If that is being nasty, then I will bow out. But I thought people usually rec threads because they want others to see them.

[bravenak]

32. Ok.

Just remember where you are and you should b fine. Enjoy.

[BainsBane]

41. Since you're here

Take some time to read through recent threads in the group. You may have not noticed such threads, but I can assure you that many African American members here have.

[randys1]

110. No racism here at DU, just white privileged people pretending racism doesnt exist...

[Tuesday Afternoon]

125. Exactly and they are using pretzel logic to rationalize their position. Debating it, is futile.

[JustAnotherGen]

60. Go back to February 2014

Start with a du search of Fried Chicken. It actually got really shitty during the trial of Trayvon's murderer. But that was the tipping point.

Good luck!

[Doctor_J]

156. Well, the OP seemed to indicate a very recent torrent of busy, blatantly racist threads

which I don't detect in the Greatest page. If there was one a year ago I will pass on tracking that down.

Now trashing this thread. Best of luck sorting it out.

[Number23]

174. What the hell are you talking about? Where is the black on white RACISM that you whining about?

[DonCoquixote]

272. take a look

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1187&pid=10950

[Cryptoad]

24. How do you know the Color of a person on DU?

[bravenak]

27. Self identification.

See... This is the A-f-r-i-c-a-n A-m-e-r- i-c-a-n group. We are such a small group of folks that most of us know who each other are because we say who we are. Most of us post here on occasion.

[Cryptoad]

33. Self proclamation still has not meaning......you can say you are anything....

[bravenak]

38. Who pretends to be black for fun and continues while getting trolled everyday by name removed?

Plus a lot of us meet up on Facebook too. Self identification occurs all throughout DU. I, for one, have posted a photo of myself before and my posts link to a page where you can see my face.

[rbrnmw]

152. name removed lol

it is your biggest fan bravenak

[bravenak]

154. I always imagine this guy.

[rbrnmw]

161. LOL

Probably spot on

[Cali_Democrat]

268. hahahahahaha

Yep...that's name removed all right.

[valerief]

232. Don't feed the trolls. They're not worth it. They're like talk radio or shit on a dinner plate.

You can't make it better, so alert the shit out of them and walk away for your own sanity. Some of us who vote can easily see the trolling and vote to hide.

[steve2470]

236. I agree

There's some people here who will not get it, no matter how it's explained or how many links or books or articles you give them. It's the #NOTALLWHITEPEOPLE mindset, which is not necessary at all.

[JustAnotherGen]

58. She's black

We are on Facebook. Now knock it off.

She's one of the nice group hosts - I'm the zero tolerance one.

Another thread derailment.

[1StrongBlackMan]

155. Well, I chose my screen-name for pure sh!ts and giggles ...

it has nothing to do with who I am!

[JustAnotherGen]

159. Me?

I'm just another Gen Exer

[Doctor_J]

34. Crypto's not talking about posts in the AA group. And neither was the OP

Until I read through this thread I had no idea you're an AA. Heaven05's been here forever. I just recently discovered that he's AA. Crypto's question was an honest one - why the scolding?

[bravenak]

37. Because I'm mean?

That's just how I sound. I call it blunt.

[Cryptoad]

40. A Trusting Soul.........

[bravenak]

42. Are you talking about me?

If so, then yes. I am. Too trusting. I'm trying to change, I swear.

[marym625]

51. You are

[bravenak]

56. Thank you.

[WillyT]

26. + 1,000,000,000... What You Said !!!

A reading list for you: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002623564

[mopinko]

30. a lot of that stuff would have been shut down by mods.

sigh.
i think you are right tobin. it is a damn shame.

[Fred Friendlier]

31. You bring up a huge problem

There is a smug little gang of white atheists who have declared themselves "The Base" and have zero respect for the concerns of anyone else - even when those they spit on are in fact major contributors to the Democratic coalition. Like you, I do not know what to do about the problem except to stand up and draw attention to its existence.

Solidarity!

[F4lconF16]

78. Wow, way to throw a jab in at atheists, there.

There's a lot of white assholes out there. The lack of a belief in a deity has shit-all to do with that. If you'd like to point towards some evidence suggesting that the atheist movement has a problem with racism (as it does with sexism), then I'll listen. But that was unnecesary.

That, and my guess is that, since atheists tend to be humanists, they'll be less racist than, for instance, the Christian right, which hates all minorities with a passion.

[randys1]

111. White ATHEISTS are the problem? WTF

[1StrongBlackMan]

162. I don't know about "atheists"; but, they are certainly ...

"civil libertarians" and "class warriors" ... the rest of your description is accurate, though.

I cannot tell you know many times I, and other PoC, have been told that race issues will magically disappear once there are no more poor white people. {paraphrasing, of course}

[justiceischeap]

285. As a white atheist I see no truth in your proclamation that we are the problem

The problem as I see it are individuals.

People who proclaim boldly it is a certain group of all people within that group are also the problem. There are atheist racists, I'm sure just as there are white racists, Asian racists, even African-American racists but that doesn't mean that all people in each of these groups are the entire problem. It s the racist individual that is the problem. And trying to derail a serious conversation by placing blame on an entire group doesn't further the conversation at all.

It would be like me saying all religious people are the problem because I'm an atheist and don't follow their theism. In fact, I have friends of many different religions and we are all strong advocates for racial equality so that would make my statement patently false as is yours.

As an openly LGBT person, I get bias, I've felt it and been subjected to it so please don't use your bias against non-theists to further your agenda in a thread about racial inequality on DU.

[LiberalAndProud]

311. Yea, damned atheists.

I don't think ^this guy^ is an atheist. I'm just sayin' that your post smells of red herring.

[Feral Child]

319. Ridiculous deflection.

I'm a white atheist. My sig line reveals my stance, my posts support it.

Instead of bringing religious bigotry in here, try to add to the discussion. We don't need thread-jacking.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

43. Well said.

I read in this group but I don't post because, as a white person, I figure I can learn more if I were to just shut up and listen. I don't know what it's like to be black in this country - except that it's a long way from where it ought to be - and the people who do know deserve to be listened to and their opinions respected. Tobin, your point is a good one, and I hope the black members of DU aren't discouraged by some of the insensitivity and occasional outright racism that sometimes turns up here.

[bravenak]

44. I am not easily discouraged. :)

I think white people should post in this group more often.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

46. Good. "Don't let the bastards grind you down," as the old saying goes.

[randys1]

113. I have learned the most by making false assumptions over and over and having

a close AA friend on another board educate me.

Used to joke about paying her, and she would not jokingly insist I take a course at my local community college on African American history, which I have not done.

The one thing I have learned to do in relation to minorities of all kinds, Women, Gays, African Americans and all, is I defer to them, always, on everything related to them.

Not to say I will listen to Phyllis Schlafly ever on anything to do with Women, for instance, but maybe I would even her...

[1StrongBlackMan]

164. Melissa Harris Perry offered the following ...

regarding her role in various issue discussions:

On matters of race, her role is to speak of her life's experience, as a Black person ... On matters of gender, her role is to speak of her life's experience, as a woman ... On matters of LGBT, a community of which she is not member of, her role is to listen to those of that community, asking clarifying questions to better understand the life's experience of those in that community, so that she can communicate to, and talk with, other Black people and women about their issues.

{and she jokingly added, she tries really hard not to say, "Well, my Gay friend told me ..." }

[gwheezie]

47. We can confront it

But I don't know if it changes any minds. I do know being silent is often interpreted as agreement.
my basic rule is if a person of color says something they read here is racist then it is.

[JustAnotherGen]

59. Can you edit OP?

Put at the top of the body -

****** Posted in the African American Group*******


Learned that from HOF. It will keep a lot of the more abrasive folks just trying to prove 'they is smart' away from it.

Kick and rec!

[Tobin S.]

86. Will do. n/t

[JustAnotherGen]

87. That will go a long way to stopping nonsense

Before it starts.

[DonCoquixote]

253. seriously do

because one problem is that some people, and yes, a lot of them are Euro-Americans, love to pick fights with people because they act like anyone who is trying to tell them to have some manners is some fascist tyring to harsh their mellow. I may agree with Doctor J on other issues, but if you go on a board dedicated to a group and pick fights, do you expect people to kpowtpow to you? That is like going on a labor board, saying "unions suck" and then wondering why people are pissed? But of course, Union people do not take crap, neither should this board.

[Cha]

61. "What that basically means for me is shutting up about it and really listening to black people."

Excellent advice, Tobin. Thank you.

[kioa]

91. I think suggesting that anyone needs to 'shut up' because of race to be condescending at best.

Discussion is a two-way street and there is no reason for anyone to 'shut up', particularly on a discussion board.
(assuming dialog is honest, of course)

[1StrongBlackMan]

165. When the one person is trying to have his/her opinion ...

on a matter, informed by vicarious observation, hold the same weight on a matter as someone else's lived experience ... well, yes, the former just needs to shut up and listen.

But I guess, you covered that here:

(assuming dialog is honest, of course)

[Cha]

169. Thank you.

[justiceischeap]

286. The DU LGBT community has gone through this animus on DU and sometimes people

do need to just shut up and listen to the group that is pointing out the problem. All too often we got a lot of the same reactions--for a while some DU'ers even blamed us for losing entire elections because we wanted equality to be a part of the democratic platform. So if a DU'er of color is telling you to shut up maybe you should and listen, really listen to what they are trying to tell you because more often than not the reason you are being told to shut up is because you are actively denying the issue with your comments.

[lovemydog]

62. I agree Tobin S. that listening and learning is essential.

It's not too much to ask, for people to listen and learn.

[d_b]

64. is this about the

one shitty rapper complaining about the other shitty rapper?

[JustAnotherGen]

65. Nope - a pattern of behavior that is rotten to the core

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1187&pid=10742

polite racists:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/118710763


http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1187&pid=6548

http://www.democraticunderground.com/118710504

http://www.democraticunderground.com/118710213

[Cha]

68. Mahalo for the links, Gen.

[marble falls]

85. Its the polite racist that are the dangerous ones. I learned about racism at the feet of my.....

politely racist grandfather I adored. His descriptions colored my image of black people (he did use the other term), that I didn't know for several years that one of my favorite TV show hosts, Nat King Cole was was black. I didn't know there were black members on the Cleveland Indians who I watched religiously on TV. I went downtown on public transportation fairly often to Public Square in Cleveland and never realized I was among black folk. In my mind, I guess, there were black people who were basically part of 'us' and the 'n' word people that I heard about from Pop and never actually knowingly met.

I want to get back to the kid who honestly did not realize there was any difference between the races. I had to learn how to discriminate. I've had to learn how to drop it, a much longer, more painful and necessary process. And it is ongoing now.

[1StrongBlackMan]

166. LOL ...

My mother tells a story of a white kid that lived on our block ... he played with my sister and I, just about every day ... he ate at our house ... my mom baby sat him many an evening ...

One day he came over and with great distress in his voice, warned my mom that she had better start planning to move because "the ni@@ers are coming!"

My mom, handled it perfectly, saying, "Oh my, Timmy! ... But what is a Ni@@er?"

Timmy responded, "I don't know but Dad says they're coming and we're going have to move."

If memory serves me, Timmy and his family moved somewhere west of the Cuyahoga, shortly after that.

[marble falls]

168. I lived at W45th and Lorain and 140th and Puritas. In the 1950's and early 60's. Kids have to be....

taught to hate by someone they love. Sad, sad, sad truth.

[randys1]

325. Jesus...i am so sorry you had to experience that.

I am so god damn sorry that everyday of your life you have to experience ignorant, hate filled racist assholes.

I wonder if in the mirror planet where there is an exact copy of all of us but in reverse, if the white people in that USA are the ones with a history of being slaves and being hung and being discriminated against in every conceivable way.

I would like to see that, even though it would be really uncomfortable for me.

[1StrongBlackMan]

327. That's just it ...

Timmy wasn't a racist (though he said racist stuff) ... his parents may have been. And I, at that age, knew little of racism.

I wonder if in the mirror planet where there is an exact copy of all of us but in reverse, if the white people in that USA are the ones with a history of being slaves and being hung and being discriminated against in every conceivable way.

And more, that is nothing that PoC would like to see.

[DonCoquixote]

271. since a certain person asked where to find examples

can a certain dr. look HERE?

[JustAnotherGen]

273. He trashed the thread

[DonCoquixote]

274. of course

he had to run back to his secret base where you could be a liberal, yet still attack black people as much as you want. It's the big rock candy mountain

[Spazito]

290. I have just read through your links and....

was horrified, nauseated, disgusted and also uplifted by some of the responses. I have seen some of the racist posts in GD but had no idea of the breadth of them.

Thanks for posting these links, they have been very enlightening. I am still completely aghast at Skinner's 'contribution' in that one thread.

[Hekate]

313. I took the time to read thru your links, JAG. Thanks for putting the post together

All I can say is it is even worse than I thought. For more people than I thought.

[marym625]

69. I have been staying away from the threads

But not the posts. I will rec, sometimes leave a comment, but I know that almost all threads that even raise the question of racism will contain hate. Even if those commenting honestly don't understand it's hate. And they seem to be the hardest to make understand.

So, lately, I just stay away from the threads

[myrna minx]

70. I came back to DU to have a look around and I'm just sickened.

I don't really post much any more but I wanted to K&r this thread. To our DUers of Color, I'm just sick about the horrible racist stuff that's allowd to thrive here. This place should be a safe place for us to all learn and talk and commiserate, but the amount of racism and sexism that flourshes here is disturbing.

[Mister Ed]

72. "shutting up...and really listening to black people". It's really that simple.

Or at least the start is that simple.

[DonCoquixote]

73. they won;t say it

but I will give you a hint, they are the same people that thought Hillary should have been crowned instead of the "inexperienced" obama.

[1StrongBlackMan]

171. No, I think more accurately ...

they are the same ones that yell, at every opportunity, "It's classism, stupid." And, it's divisive to suggest that it's not.

[Kalidurga]

77. Well Tobin there is a real problem here

I can tell there is a real problem because every thread that talks about race and issues that affect black people more profoundly have get a lot more attention by name removed.

I was in the middle of chewing out a name removed just before I was going to hit the reply button I noticed that MIRT saw the post before I could reply.

What I was saying probably would have earned me a hide, but I didn't put in any cus words I promise.

I don't have any solutions to the race issues either. I do know one thing though that would go a long way to making things better. It's not an easy thing some might think it's all but impossible. What is vitally important is getting rid of laws that are used against POC. For example legalizing drugs. Now I am not saying black people use drugs more than white people in fact I think it's the other way around, can't prove it, but that is my hunch. But, drug laws are used against Black people every day. Stop and frisk has to go away completely. I think we need to make it harder for the police to just stop people because they think they might be breaking a law. Because when we allow that well it's become obvious that they will stop Black people a whole lot more than White people and without looking I am going to hazard a guess that when they do stop White people they are poor to very poor and probably a high proportion are homeless.

So in a nutshell fixing the problem of institutionalized racism will go a long way to making things better.

Oh and one more thing. We absolutely need to see income inequality as a civil rights issue.

[marym625]

122. swearing isn't allowed here?

Boy am I lucky I have been good. I swear like a sailor. Not that I know any sailors or how they speak. Just a saying

[Kalidurga]

142. In real life I have been told that I cus bad enough to make a sailor blush

probably true the things that come out of my mouth sometimes they have me thinking OMG I can't believe I just said that. I usually keep going anyway cuz when I am mad I am usually good and mad. But, online I have time to keep myself in check somewhat. So I can play around with saying things to bother other people without actually using cus words. Those are my favorites but some people are offended go figure.

[Tobin S.]

89. Even if there were a lot of posts like that here (which I have not seen)

None of what you said is going on here really hurts me. Does it really hurt you if someone calls you a cracker? Is the weight of over 300 years of abuse and oppression contained in that word?

[kioa]

95. Words only carry what power we give them.

There is no collection of sounds that "carry with it 300 years of abuse".
Words aren't magic. There are no wizards here.
I have no idea what kind of race discussions you or the person you are talking to are referring to, but let's keep things in perspective here.

Calling for respectful dialog is a perfectly reasonable thing to call for. Asking that people cease discussion for 'shutting up' because of their ancestry is condescending at best.

[Tobin S.]

97. That's not exactly what I said.

Are we going to get into an argument about semantics here? Words don't really mean anything? Our laws are made of words. Don't tell me they don't have any power.

Besides, you are missing the point of this thread. I'm not really the person you need to be listening to here.

[kioa]

98. You wrote the OP. If you don't want people to listen to you, you're going about it in an odd manner.

The post you referred to spoke of encountering rude, racially-based & disrespectful phrases.
You automatically dismissed such obviously counterproductive speech because they didn't "carry the weight of 300 years of abuse". If you don't like being called on melodramatics, don't use such melodramatic nonsense.

I think respectful dialogs on race are informative & appropriate.
You are openly saying that blatantly and unnecessarily disrespectful dialog is perfectly fine and the best way to have a discussion on race is "shutting up".

Your suggestion is, at best, counterproductive & condescending.

[JustAnotherGen]

100. Welcome to being black in America

Where being told to shut up and eat your peas is standard operating procedure by the dominant culture.

You might want to read through the first page of posts in this group before posting anything else.

It's pretty clear who gets alert stalked, stalked by intruders, and told to shut up at DU the moment the truth makes people uncomfortable.

[kioa]

102. Did I do something wrong? If so, say what it is.

That is how discussion works.

I certainly have never told you to "shut up" (nor eat anything), so I am at a loss at what you are trying to tell me.

I'm responding merely to the OP's suggestion of "shutting up", something you also seem to disagree with.
I am unaware of what you want me to read or with its relevance.
Tell me.
Spell it out.

It's pretty clear who gets alert stalked, stalked by intruders, and told to shut up at DU the moment the truth makes people uncomfortable.

Who? What truth? Who is uncomfortable?
What is an 'alert stalk'?
Who else, other than this OP, has told anyone to "shut up"? Who was it that was told to "shut up". Why?

[JustAnotherGen]

107. You might want to read through the the first pae of posts in this group

All of the answers to your questions are there.

[kioa]

109. You made an issue specifically with MY comment & by extension with me.

Those posts have nothing to do with either myself nor my comments.

If you have an issue with what I said, by all means, say so.
But don't suggest that I should "shut up" because of an issue you have with what somebody else said

[JustAnotherGen]

112. I never told you to shut up

I have no issue with what Tobin posted.

All I did was suggest you read through the first page of posts in the group.

All of the answers to your questions are there.

I will also tell you I have never received as many "blocked from group" private messages or seen as many "name removed" posts with comments removed as I have in the past few days.

I'm also getting messages from Hosts of other Groups and roles at DU in support of us.

You can continue to be indignant - or you can read JUST the first page of threads in the AA Group and learn the dynamics in play.

It's your choice.

Be indignant? Or understand? Your choice.

[kioa]

118. You engaged me. If you have a problem with anything I have said, please, say so.

I will be happy to address them.

The OP said people should be "shutting up". Something I completely disagree with for the reasons specifically outlined.

I am extremely uninterested in petty in-blog issues. I'm not the one you need to be addressing over such trivialities as "the dynamics at play".
If you have an issue with what somebody else said respond to them. Not me.

Again, if you have an issue with anything I said, please feel free to say so. I will happily engage you & explain/defend/revise my statement.

But don't drag me into whatever issues you are having with someone else.

[JustAnotherGen]

120. This is enough

Note - Group Host here.

Note -Protected Group.

You appear to be looking for a fight. This weekend? Enough.

You are being deliberately disrespectful.

This is a protected group. Learn something - and you will catch up with the wide range of issues at play.

As a Group Host - I damn well WILL direct anyone who has NEVER posted in this group before to understand the dynamics at play not only in the OP on this thread - but in the first page of posts in the group.

Now let's engage - What did you think about Coates article in The Atlantic regarding Reparations as it relates to Slavery by Any Other Name and Post World War II economic oppression of black Americans?

[kioa]

126. Very well. Lets take a step back.

The main issue I have with the OP is the "shutting up" part.
I think honest, open & respectful dialog is useful.

"shutting up" is not part of "open discussion" & trying to espouse that position, especially in a discussion section of a political blog is counterproductive & pointless.

I don't think it is unreasonable to ask that you hold me to only my statements.

As you have just made clear, you can ban anyone you want, so why are you asking me to read comments from commenters you can ban? I do not factor into that discussion one iota.

What would you like me to do?
Do you want me to "shut up" as the OP suggests? If so, I disagree. I haven't said anything rude, disrespectful nor off the subject of the OP or to the specific comments I specifically responded to.
Frankly, I have no clue what your problem is with me nor my statements.
If your problem is with others or with other comments, then
(a) address that person.
(b)you can apparently ban them.

Perhaps we are talking past each other. If so, lets try & figure it out.

[bravenak]

127. You are not understanding the op.

Shut up and listen to us when we tell you about the racism we face and the issues that stem from it, instead of downplaying what we face or telling us that racism is over and Al Sharpton is the only real racist left. Don't pretend to know more about the racism black people face than the black people themselves and try to do all the talking.

[kioa]

130. At no time have I ever

"downplaying what we face or telling us that racism is over and Al Sharpton is the only real racist left. Don't pretend to know more about the racism black people face than the black people themselves and try to do all the talking."

Such a statement is demonstratively wrong & disrespectful and should be treated as such.

But nor do I think anybody speaking respectfully should "just shut up".

A discussion is a two way street & is a useful tool for learning.
Telling people to "shut up" is neither.

[bravenak]

132. That's because the op is not about you.

Dude. Should I tell you in spanish?
It's about people who need to shut up and listen. Why you think you were included, I'll never know.

[kioa]

136. Because statements addressed to the public....

addresses the public.

I really don't think that disagreeing with "shutting up" instead of respectful dialog is an unreasonable position.

[bravenak]

137. Hey, guess what?

Some people need to learn to shut up. The op is about them. The people who make everything about them.
I am about to block you soon. I'm trying not to. Maybe the op IS about you?

[kioa]

141. Strange. The OP telling others to "shut up" doesn't address me.

But I need to "shut up" about people telling others to "shut up", because you're not telling people to "shut up", so "shut up" or else.

Interesting tact.
If telling others to "shut up" doesn't work out for you, feel free to try encouraging respectful dialog.
Who knows? It just might work.

[bravenak]

144. Hey!

Pipe down in here!! This is a group, not a forum.
Shhhh!! Quiet!! Hush!!! Callate la voca!! No habla! Kein sprechen!


But, yeah, basically, you got it.
You can't say whatever you want in here. Go to GD and say whatever you want. You are in the African American Group. In here , in this here group, you need to follow the rulez.
Rule 1. If it ain't about you it ain't about you.
Rule 2. Do not be disruptive.
Rule 3. Group hosts ban the disruptive.
Plus some other rules you don't need to know since you probably just realized that you are being a jerk to the hosts of the African American group, in the African American group. I suppose now, you will see the error of your ways and politely stop being a jerk.

[heaven05]

143. "shutting up" is NOT the point of OP.

how many times does that have to be mentioned? Like someone else said, the OP is "NOT ABOUT YOU". You're fun... NOT.

[BainsBane]

267. You are demonstrating your views on race

in the way you have engaged in this thread. You insist you do not need to listen or read. It is all about you. What the members here feel and experience is inconsequential compared to your ego. We know a great deal about you from this interaction. You have chosen to reveal yourself. You have insisted you don't need to read other threads in this group. What African American members experience in regard to racism seems to be inconsequential compared to what you want. The discussion must be about you because nothing else matters. You've communicated your views quite effectively through the way you have interacted in this thread.

[JustAnotherGen]

131. I have zero problem with you

You are some person at the other end of the Internet being abrasive.

You've been disrespectful to me by continuing this path.

1. This group has been directly under attack for 72 hours.
2. We don't get paid - we volunteer.
3. A little respect for our time would be nice.

Your Original Post - that's a BIG ISSUE we have not only at DU but in general in AmeriKKKa as heaven05 calls it.

The op of this thread - showed a huge amount of empathy. All you did - if you had read the FIRST PAGE OF POSTS in the Group -

Is do what America always does.

Chastise someone for how they shared their message. How they protest.

It didn't meet your standard or give you warm fuzzies so ALL you could post was a dismissal of everything else.

Now I won't ban you. But if you keep it up - another host might.

My problem is with you. When I see you pst something that addressed the issue within the OP - my issue with perceiving you as disruptive to the Group will go away.

[kioa]

135. Your first sentence of your post and the first sentence of your final paragraph directly contradict

each other.

I never "chastised" anybody. I disagreed with a suggestion that people "shut up" instead of using respectful dialog.

I certainly don't demand "warm fuzzies" from other people's opinions.
I find the idea of dismissing respectful dialog in preference for "shutting up" to be ludicrous.

Let us simplify our disagreement.
Do you think a discussion forum is better with or without respectful dialog?
Do you think that enforcing that everyone "shut up" to be a good idea?

If you think our thread has gotten off the rails, I would agree.
However, you have specifically engaged my statements & I have specifically engaged yours.
This is how "discussion" works. "Warm fuzzies" are not required.

[JustAnotherGen]

140. Your participation is up for review

I believe in full disclosure

[gollygee]

180. Do you realize

that you've made this thread about you?

[fishwax]

270. you are so obviously not listening to what other posters are telling you

I think most people would be happy with just the "listen" part of "shut up a bit and listen," but you're not doing that.

Also, you're completely wrong if you think just shutting up and listening every now and then isn't essential to discussion. It's hard to listen to other people when one is never quiet oneself.

[BainsBane]

265. The point is to listen

To learn about the experiences of people of color. I'm sorry you find that so objectionable. It is not a petty blog issue. It's about racism and how people of color experience that racism. Either one cares about that because they want to help lessen racism, or they do not. JAG has politely suggested you read the other posts in this group to get a sense of that several times, and you have repeatedly refused in a rather rude fashion.

[heaven05]

139. you were never told, specifically, to shut up

Last edited Sun Dec 28, 2014, 03:10 PM - Edit history (2)

?????

[heaven05]

138. There is a collection of letters though

KKK. Have a ........problem with that collection of sounds around a group a letters that forms sound?...can you say Racism, Ku Klux Klan, lynching, castrating, burning, murdering, killing, shooting unarmed black men, women and children...now that, to me, is a collection of words with their associated sounds that "carry with them 300 years of abuse", wouldn't you say? "Shut up" pales to insignificance, I'd say, given the sounding out of my above words.

[kioa]

146. Those are absolutely descriptions of 300 years of abuse.

Your statement, unlike what the statements of the two comments above mine were discussing are not examples of disrespectful dialog.

Isn't amazing what can be accomplished with factual & respectful dialog?

[heaven05]

147. well good

now reread the OP and see if you can get past those two words you're hung up on and maybe you'll see that the others you are engaging here are trying to dialog also. At least that's how I'm reading WHOLE thread and original OP which is very important in it's sage advice to all actually.....

[kioa]

148. I think my original statement was fairly bland & self apparent.

It exploded into far more than it needed to be, which is something apt to happen on the Internet.

After all, this is not only a discussion forum but a political website & people that like discussing politics are also disposed to argue politics.

[heaven05]

149. your original statement

took issue with two words that never had the implicit intention of blatantly telling any one individual to "shut up" as you so surmised. Those two words were in context with the whole of the OP giving advice that is/was needed by many. If you can't take it.....

[kioa]

150. You're right. He didn't tell one person to "shut up". He told many people to "shut up"

I prefer reasonable & respectful dialog, but to each his own.

[steve2470]

153. "shut up" = white people need to listen and learn

THAT'S what Tobin meant. He didn't mean to "shut up" forever and not discuss.

My philosophy is to have a good understanding of a subject matter before opening my mouth. I prefer not to spew ignorance, either in real life or here on DU. By "shutting up", I learn about racism FROM THE VERY PEOPLE WHO ARE EXPERTS AT EXPERIENCING IT.

Ok, you hate the phrase shut up. Substitute listen first and learn about the topic thoroughly. Is that better ? I prefer NOT to be ignorant and learn FIRST.

I, as a white person, do not dare to tell black people what to say or think about racism. If we don't agree, then there is nothing further to discuss. Our approach is fundamentally different.

[kioa]

157. I simply made the very simple statement that

respectful discussion is preferable to "shutting up" & telling others to "shut up" is counterproductive. Especially on matters of discord.


I hope this clears it up.
Really didn't think such a basic statement would cause such a ruckus.

"I, as a white person, do not dare to tell black people what to say or think about racism."

I would certainly hope not.
In fact, I would hope that there is nothing that as a white person you would presume to tell someone what they should think. That would be very arrogant and disrespectful.
I would hope that any person could simply manage to use respectful dialog, especially if it is something he/she is ignorant of.
So long as a person does so, I don't think anybody should be admonished to simply "shutting up".

Are we here to learn, discuss and carry a dialog or are we not?

[Kali]

186. what you were doing with this dead-horse beating

is rude and disruptive. I can not believe the patience you were accorded here. I would have banned you after your second or third "who me? I am just trying to be reasonable" bullshit post.


(had to change the tenses there as I see they finally and rightfully did block your oh so innocent disingenuous ass)

[JustAnotherGen]

201. I did

And I don't like having to do that.

When I looked at the length of time at DU, the complete disregard for the OP and the actual point of their message, and let's face it -

I tried to get her on track and I couldn't do it. So I blocked her.


Then I went and looked at the overall posts in the past 2 months - After the Block- and realized that she was just here at DU to talk about owning guns - and I said - eh . . .

I'm not going to feel bad about the boot. It's not like there was a genuine interest in having a discussion or care/consideration for the experiences of blacks in America.

[giftedgirl77]

257. Yeah, you were way to kind to that one...

I would have blocked them after the 2d indignant response.

[rbrnmw]

185. what are you talking about?

OMFG
you can't possibly be serious I have never seen anyone say that here or on GD. in fact many many times people try to explain over and over and over. Do folks get mad sometimes with all the foolishness thrown in their face? sure Do they make bigotted statements about white people? No I have never seen anyone from this group EVER call someone a stupid cracker or anything like what you describe.

[ellenrr]

83. I don't agree with your assessment of DU. yes there are racists,

but they are out-numbered - at least to my observation - by the people who tell them to fuck off.

Compared to many other forums, DU is really a bastion of anti-racism.

I've only been posting regularly recently - I was drawn by the news and discussion of Black Lives Matter and of police violence.
What I see is that the majority of posters are outraged at police killings of Black people.

yes, there are people who post in support of the police, but a small number.

[Tobin S.]

90. It's not just about the recent conflicts with the police

Actually, I didn't have that in mind at all when I posted the OP.

But I agree to a certain extent. There are a lot of good people here. My OP was alerted on and the jury voted 7-0 to leave it. However, I was on a jury yesterday to judge a blatantly racist post and it was voted 4-3 to leave it.

[JustAnotherGen]

93. Someone alerted on this thread?

They ought to be ashamed of themselves.

And I agree it's far more than police violence and civil rights abuse by law enforcement. And it's far more than Iggy.

It's been the bigots unleashed since Obama took office.

When black folks older than 60 tell me it's true - I believe them.

[Tobin S.]

94. Yes. I got a PM about it.

The 7-0 vote to leave it was encouraging. The alert itself was discouraging.

[ellenrr]

96. well, I'll defer to you, bec. I haven't been a regular poster for very long. I think

racists posts should be immediately removed, and the poster should be banned.

[JustAnotherGen]

99. They haven't been though

As a matter of fact a member of Admin came back here and basically chastised a member for pointing out racial prejudice - and the arrogant bigoted thread stands. This was earlier this year.

[ellenrr]

104. I think it's bad enough to have racist posts anywhere on DU, but there are special

considerations for groups:
"This is a group, not a forum. Groups often serve as safe havens for members who share similar interests and viewpoints. Individuals who post messages contrary to a particular group's stated purpose can be excluded from posting in that group."

[JustAnotherGen]

114. I've been a host here for awhile

Its very rare to get blocked here. I would rather err on the side of a productive dialogue - and I think the other group hosts would agree.

You really have to be disruptive or have us see a pattern of thoughts/beliefs outside of the group - to get blocked from here.

And I think this OP is an awesome one! This is why I really encourage people of all walks of life to contribute and participate.

[ellenrr]

115. Appreciate that. I'm glad to be here. I'll probably read more than write,

which is often a good thing!

[JustAnotherGen]

92. I agree with his assessment

I think DU has tons of polite bigots - but recently we've seen people come out of the woodwork in support.

There is a post(two) by Steve asking AA du-ers to "come back".

I think it woke people up to the hostility.

There are more named removed back here in the past few days than in the past year.


They no likey this "awakening"

[randys1]

116. The simple truth about this place is there is a large group of rightwingers, who post in certain

places only it seems, who wait for a liberal to get overly emotional or upset about something then they alert them and hope their buddies are on the jury.

It is ridiculous and quite frankly an AA at DU is in jeopardy of being silenced if they are unlucky enough to get the wrong jurors. Any liberal here is in jeopardy of this.

That seems insane to me, on a LIBERAL message board?

Are there several polite racists here, yes, getting less and less polite recently.

You can see them SEETHING when they try and politely respond to a thread where an AA is mentioning how sick they are of all the racists.

kind of entertaining actually

I HAVE A QUESTION, is it against the rules to complain about the jury system?

[JustAnotherGen]

117. I think if you complain in Ask the Admin

It's okay - but posting agaist jury results is taboo.

Now in the AA group - we don't lock threads posting about jury alerts or the system. I've never received a pm or message on FB from another group host suggesting we do that.

And you are so filled with truthiness in this post!

[1StrongBlackMan]

173. Funny ...

I just found I received a Christmas day hide for what was (IMV) clearly a joking comment ... the hide was very informative in that the Alerter referred to my "history of vulgar sexual comments that are really sick" and that my "discourse is corrosive."

I wonder if the Alerter was thinking of someone that looks like me?

[JustAnotherGen]

176. I bet HE was!

You've been an ally in HOF? I don't think any of those members would ever saythat about you.

[1StrongBlackMan]

177. Perhaps ...

While I'll admit ... betting that a Named Removed was "typing with one hand (because) the other is occupied ... down his pants", was childish ... I can't think of a single other crude comment I have made on DU ... and a single comment, wouldn't make my discourse corrosive, would it? .

[JustAnotherGen]

179. Well it's not childish if it's true!

[rbrnmw]

182. lol

I was thinking of commenting it was most likely true

[giftedgirl77]

318. & now that his posting priveleges have been revoked...

I guess it just proves your point.

[1StrongBlackMan]

324. LOL ...

Note to self:

"When commenting in condemnation of racist stuff ... do so, in the most vanilla language possible, so as not to inflame the sensibilities of those pretending to not know racist stuff gets said."

[rbrnmw]

181. that is so not true about you

I have never seen you post anything nasty

[1StrongBlackMan]

184. Thanks ...

I didn't think people saw me that way ... especially since I rarely use ANY vulgarity, on line or IRL.

[gollygee]

187. You have no such history

That is completely fabricated bullshit.

[1StrongBlackMan]

188. Perhaps, but the fabricated B.S. got the hide. n/t

[1StrongBlackMan]

172. Yes ...

there are a bunch of DUers that tell some of the more obvious folks to Fuck off, and are very vocal about Black Lives Matter and police violence ...

But that's just it ... Black Lives Matter and police violence are important to PoC; but, not more important than the daily (less extreme) indignities that we face ... like telling non-PoC what we believe to be racist, and having non-PoC tell us what should REALLY be of concern ... you know, like what just happened here.

That's where the listening part comes in.

But in all fairness ... with you being relatively new (and presumably, non-Black), you may not have picked up on what Black DUers have been saying.

[Feral Child]

320. It's out there, ellen.

It's somewhat masked, but it's certainly there.

Take a look at this thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6020590

All the "yes, but" posts excusing the white privilege this crazy woman received. It's heartbreaking.

It isn't just the intruders, the cop-apologists with 10 or 15 posts, there's an ugly, covert, slyly under-spoken atmosphere of racism rampant here.

I didn't notice it at 1st, till I started reading bravenak's posts on the subject, then it all became very clear. I have to credit her for making me look for it. Once I looked it was obvious.

[bravenak]

323. WOW!!!

It is very hard for 'some' scientists (like 3 of them, anyway) to accept the truth about climate change, so maybe he's one of those 'type' of scientists.

I'm glad you noticed all the 'yeah, buts'. I try to explain it to people but some don't even bother to look. They just tell me I don't see what I see and act like I'm imagining things. The trolls are one thing, but it upsets me when people here agree with the trolls, just using nicer language. Sad.

[Feral Child]

326. It was your posts that made me look

for this kind of behavior, and I was shocked by the sheer prevalence of it.

I think a lot of them are in complete denial. Then they look for reasons, little nit-picks, to attack any message that exposes racism. "You see, this isn't really about racism, because....".

What's really sad is I can jack them on it and they'll mutter some excuses and say I'm launching personal attacks, but if you or another AA call them on it, they get ugly, aggressive, and claim that you're a racist.


It's a very real problem for DU, and I don't see Admin paying attention to it.

I've said it, and I'll say it again. Thanks, bravenak. You challenged us to look, I did, and your posts are vindicated by the truth. It's made a real difference.

[Baitball Blogger]

101. There are members of the white community who have taken their privilege for granted.

As long as they are in agreement with each other there is no limit to the illicit course of actions they will take when they are in positions of leadership. It is for this reason that we need to continue to hammer away when we observe their hypocrisies, because their overreaches are usually the result of racism. As long as they can convince people that minorities are inferior, it allows them to think that they are entitled to perks they really have no legal right to.

Racism is at the core of inequality.

[abelenkpe]

123. The problem

http://imgur.com/InoMV1Y


?1

[bravenak]

133. +1

[heaven05]

145. Great discussion

stemming from your OP. Enjoyed the back and forth with ONE who couldn't handle just two words of your whole OP? Amazing. One never has the solution, but, engaged and discussing, rationally, reasonably, we all can find one. I think. I hope.

[JustAnotherGen]

160. And made it all about those two words

And nothing else.

[Number23]

175. Thanks, Tobin. Though this will fall on deaf ears like so many other OPs imploring people to get out

of their own way, step outside of themselves and try to see/hear/understand the perspectives of others.

I've been taking more and more DU breaks lately and the level of stupidity I've been seeing means I will be taking a lot more.

[rbrnmw]

183. I use to trash the threads and was not going to comment

Last edited Sun Dec 28, 2014, 09:52 PM - Edit history (1)

but we have to know about these people because they need to be confronted on their racism

sorry about those typos mr.rbrnmw was talking to me as I was typing

[Number23]

178. "White people here do not seem to understand that without the black community the Democratic party

is powerless"

I have LONG since suspected that with a lot of these people, this explains the animosity towards black posters and black issues better than anything else. This same crowd picks apart everything the President does and only supports black posters that frame issues of racism as a "class" issue. And needless to say, this same band of fuckwits will barge into to ANY thread about racism and try to turn it into a discussion about how "Obama hasn't done this" or how the real issue is class, not race.

We are to be assisted/supported as long as it somehow benefits THEM. Which is why so many in this tribe have leached onto the problems involving the drug war. I laugh my ass off at these folks, they are so stupid. So transparent and pitiful. They are as closed mouthed as they can be about discrepancies in prison sentencing, racial profiling in hiring and policing, police brutality against minorities but the MILISECOND they can pipe up about how the drug war disproportionately affects minorities - there they are! And I'm sure it's just coincidence that getting rid of the drug war would make it infinitely easier for them and their 9 remaining functioning brain cells to go out and find some... whatever. But if they can crouch their self serving need for weed as a "social issue" because OMG! Look at how it affects the NEgroes!1 then they are all too happy to do it. And they are mad as hell that SO many of us see right through them (though there are a few of us that seem to go along to get along).

A lot of these folks seemed to almost SEETHE that black people, including many black posters on DU, have been and remain stalwart supporters of this president. I guess in their heads, because they are SOOO much smarter/better/in possession of knowledge of the REAL issues that affect the world, that if we don't turn on the man as they demand we do every minute of every day, if we can't be their lackeys, I mean allies, then we're in the same boat as the right wing. And they wonder why so many here would consider being their allies as quickly as we would the Tea Party.

[freshwest]

194. Agreed ferverently with all you said. And they are shameless and refuse to listen.

[Spazito]

291. Well said, Number23!

I could not agree more with your post, I see it the same as you. I have been reading the links provided in this OP and 1StrongBlackMan's "DU ... Just So You Know, It's NOT Our Imagination ..." thread in GD and am sickened, angry yet want to applaud those in this group for fighting back and not letting the horrid racist crap go unchallenged.

[Hekate]

314. Yes yes yes

Too tired to really say more -- been following this and associated links for the past several hours, and am so disheartened about DU.

[Number23]

191. Hopefully you'll be out of here before you get a chance to even see my post

But just in case someone wants to see your idiocy:

From "DUer" Komocere:

There are three main things contributing to the death of DU.

The first was the creation of the African American and feminist groups. The more prescient DUers commented at the time that this would only divide people, create a clique-like environment and create safe havens for extremists. Over time, the bullying and alert-stalking of the rest of DU by these two groups created a very hostile atmosphere and it killed open debate.

The second thing was the daily threads pushing the "white male privilege" meme, and more recently the "cultural appropriation" meme. Having people constantly abuse and shit all over you while telling you you're actually a member of the privileged class is too absurd to take seriously. DU obviously doesn't do irony. Telling people their opinion doesn't matter because they're a white male is no better than telling someone their opinion doesn't matter because they're a black female. Both are wrong. Equally wrong were the black people telling white people to shut up because they couldn't possibly understand what it's like to be black, while these same people think they know everything how about white people think and feel. At some point, the sane DUers were going to stand up and fight back.

The third thing was the automatic support given to certain criminals, just because they were black, and the demonization of the people who killed them. It started with Trayvon Martin, continued with Michael Brown and Vonderritt Myers, and it's still continuing with Antonio Martin. Even after it was proven that George Zimmerman and Darren Wilson acted in self-defense, certain DUers continued to lie about what happened, and supported the criminals. We now had the "police brutality" meme. This has divided not just DU, but the whole country. It seems like some kind conflict is unavoidable at this point, unless the blacks back down and apologize.

The only thing that can save DU at this point is making it more open, especially to more conservative views. MIRT is one of the biggest obstacles to free discussion at DU right now, and should really be retired.

One final point. Several of the people responsible for creating the toxic atmosphere at DU are posting right in this thead - BainsBane, bravenak, Cha and JustAnotherGen, among others. Banning these people would improve the morale of DU immensely.

[ellenrr]

192. lol, thanks to that (deleted) poster, who in the last paragraph,

gave me the names of some posters that I should for sure pay attention to.

[1StrongBlackMan]

266. Damn. I feel neglected! n/t

[ellenrr]

278. oh you didn't make the list?

that's like not having a file in the FBI, lol

[JustAnotherGen]

199. Where have I seen this before?

What an ass wipe!

And before anyone goes alerting - she is not a member so she is fair game.

It's perfectly reasonable to call someone an ass wipe who is not a member of DU.


I did not use sexist, mysoginstic, or racially based language.

Any single person can be an ass wipe!


There are a few people watching this from a site I used to belong to that I directed to DU in 2008. We are friends IRL.

It was an email that drew me to this post.

Years ago I posted my user name here so they could connect with me. The more I think about it - the more I believe this is an ass wipe I booted from there years ago. What a BB from hell! < ---- those women from my old site will get that.

Thanks 2nd2 for the heads up!

[marble falls]

200. You've read that here at least twice before from other one post wonders.

[rbrnmw]

204. I think I know who that is

[kwassa]

208. Thanks for preserving this post. I always want to see the Name Removed posts.

I've had more of these posts in response to mine, in the past week, than I have had in my entire DU career, and I haven't seen any of them!

I wish they would let us see all of them.

This is a psuedo-rational classic. I wonder if this is our old friend .... now on vacation.

[Number23]

218. " I wonder if this is our old friend .... now on vacation."

Can you believe that his account is no longer flagged for review and is now active, leaving us to all wait breathlessly until his "vacation" is over? And this is at LEAST his second, maybe even third vacation.

In the meantime, he is rec'ing every single race baiting OP he can get his hands on. I'm just trying to figure out... exactly WHAT does this person have to do before the admins kick his ass off of this web site?

[kwassa]

221. There is no jury mechanism to reveal a pattern of abuse ....

if there are no individual posts that are over the top and hide-able. A big flaw in the DU system, in my opinion.

[Hekate]

315. DU will be "saved" by "making it open to more conservative views"?!

My. Gods.

You did a public service by copy/pasting this piece of garbage in the open air.

[JI7]

193. the Carlton Banks thing was such a joke

isn't that a common stereotype of certain types of kids. usually nerdy, geeky,from well to do type families and who attend certain schools . that look has crossed racial lines. there are many asians who have that look also. do people look at those nerdy asians and think they are trying to be white ? it has nothing to do with race.

you have to wonder about someone who sees carlton banks and sees it as him being more white.

there have always been nerdy/geeky black guys . there is a reason why media usually only portrays certain images of certain races.

there is so much ignorance in many of these threads i don't even know where to start with many of them. just trying to deal with how much ignorance, denial , stupidity is in them.

[randys1]

206. It is getting worse by the hour...Why is this alleged liberal message board dominated

by right leaning white people hurling nonsense all day?

Sure seems to be that way to me...

[bravenak]

207. Did you happen to see this Op posted in AA just a few minutes ago?

Message to the blacks on DU (how to be a good ally)

Dear black people,

1) Just because white people don't agree with you, it doesn't mean they haven't listened to you. Do not demand that white people shut up and listen to you when you're not willing to do the same.

2) The world does not revolve around you. You are not special, so don't expect to be treated as if you are. If you're offended or outraged, that's just too bad. There's no law that protects you against hurt feelings.

3) You do not get to tell white people what they need to be doing or saying. Learn some respect and humility.

4) You are not an "oppressed group". You live in a First World country, the wealthiest in the world. We have a generous welfare state that provides for your every need. You have a home, access to clean, running water, central heating, and so much food that many of your people are morbidly obese, while there are people in the world who are starving. You have access to some of the best education in the world, and some of the best healthcare. There are genuinely oppressed people in the Third World who could only dream of having the opportunities and privileges that you have.

5) No black person alive today was ever a slave, and no white person alive today ever owed slaves, so get over it. Nobody owes you anything. Spare us the "300 years of oppression and suffering". There are no 300 year old black Americans, and you have suffered no more than the average white American.

6) Do not accuse whites of being racist. You are far more racist, so check your own racism first and ask yourself, did I do anything to provoke this?


You have created a huge divide in American society. This will be difficult to overcome, but not impossible. All it requires is that black America takes a good, honest look at itself, and stops blaming whites for their own failures.


Regards,

White America

Dear Juror,

I merely reposted an op that was posted in this group. We are being harassed this week and need to discuss some of these posts and ops in a protected space. Please understand and do not hide.

[steve2470]

209. that guy came from Stormfront-lite (Discussionist) or the real Stormfront

Horrible how this group is getting trolled and attacked now.

[bravenak]

210. I think so too.

Do they post stuff about DU over there? I should check it out again, but it's too hard.
From now on, I'm going to be available all day to ban people like that from the group immediately. I was so shocked, I forgot.

[randys1]

212. You are being attacked by long time members of DU, why shouldnt rightwing racists from

other boards come here and also attack you.

You folks seem to be open season, again.

[bravenak]

216. Name removed is the most prolific poster right now.

[randys1]

223. OK, now "name removed" is not one poster, right? "name removed" is racist after

racist punk who gets instantly banned?

this confuses me a little

[bravenak]

224. Yeah Randy, you so funny!

They're all the same but different!!

[steve2470]

217. yes they post junk about DU

Especially the really big contentious threads in GD.

[bravenak]

219. Oh, god...

How boring that seems. That's why I stay away. That drives me crazy.

[randys1]

211. Dear god no, where is this? Is it hidden already?

I assume it was sarcasm, but a person actually wrote this?

[Number23]

213. Why would you assume that was sarcasm? Do you think someone posted that ironically

or because they are deliberately trying to piss off the handful of black people that still post here?

It's obvious that was not meant as sarcasm.

[randys1]

214. I meant when I started to read it I thought it was, it was so outlandish, so racist

so hateful, so ignorant, I couldnt believe anyone who posts on this board could say that.

But i believe it...now


I didnt see it in AA I saw it here when Bravenak posted it and I was confused, I guess I dont want to believe that level of hate exists here on DU

but we know it does

oops, I am in AA now...I thought Bravenak reposted it in GD, but my reaction has nothing to do with that, i am a little confused, so it was hidden and that is why I dont see it on AA?



I mean the part where a white person accuses Black people of creating the huge divide in America, it could have been written by "The Onion" as it is ass backwards in every detail..

I have always wondered if white people, teaparty, actually believe it when THEY Say that OBAMA is the one creating racial unrest in America, i mean it is so fucking INSANE, so completely backwards that I assume they say it just to be assholes, surely they dont believe it?

[Number23]

220. They believe it, Randy. They do

[randys1]

226. Blaming racial divide in American on Black people is like

blaming our economic problems on Obama for not realizing the entire Republican party would work day and night to block everything he tried to do to help Americans.

It is his fault for not anticipating this and figuring out a way around it.

It is Black people's problem for not anticipating rampant racism against them, and for not appeasing white assholes quickly enough to dissuade them of their idiotic beliefs and bigotry.

[bravenak]

215. It is hidden.

Just wanted to prove to you you are not crazy.

[gollygee]

222. Holy crap!

I'm glad you saved that.

[bravenak]

225. Umm hmm, proof baby!!!

They always want proof!! Whoomp there it is!!!

[rbrnmw]

227. OMG bravenek

This shit is getting bad I can't believe the racist assholes have the nerve to come to a protected group and post that.

[bravenak]

228. I was actually mildly surprised at the boldness.

I'll send you and gen a link to the rest of what's left of that thread that PERSON started.

[rbrnmw]

229. I am just so sick of the shit

[bravenak]

230. I am just so USED to this shit.

That's the problem.

[rbrnmw]

231. being use to it doesn't make it any less sickening though

this place has become a racist cesspool

[bravenak]

233. So true.

It is fucking sad these days. I'm pissed.

[arcane1]

238. I don't think it's nerve. I think it's deperation and fear, knowing their time has passed.

I like to think that, anyway

[bravenak]

237. Because you care about DU so much after one day?

Weird.

[arcane1]

240. I'm glad I'm not forced to read DU posts.

[bravenak]

241. That goes both ways now don't it?

When have blacks oppressed whites in America? Or is just discussing racism oppression to you? How... Weak.

[bravenak]

244. You're oppressing me right now.

And also when I got assaulted and called ni$$er everyday for three years while living as the only black family in a white town. Such dirty ugly people.

[bravenak]

252. Did you just call me a nigger?

Such dirty ugly people, and they all smell of wet dog and mayonnaise, am I right? Nigger.

When you call white people crackers, they have a right to call you nigger.

Funny, I never called anybody any names. Not even you. I will post your response to me for posterity.


Dear Jury... Once again I am copying this post to prove I am not lying about the things people say to me on DU. Please do not hide my post.

[rbrnmw]

259. I need to step away for an hour or 2

I will end up banned and by the way name removed fuck off you racist pos

[bravenak]

261. I know.

When this happens I sometimes take a break and read something good or watch something funny. Last time I was watching the Episode of South Park called 'Fishsticks'?(Kanye west is in it) I laughed and laughed.
There's a couple more from this season that killed me like '#rehash.

T

[JustAnotherGen]

275. Journal - did you just call me a nigger

[bravenak]

276. These people are a trip!!

Did you see 1strong's op? He op'd the dirty business in GD. I'm glad. People need to see. And BtA has been getting some humdingerz too. I swear it's the same people. All antisemites hate black people and vice versa. Yuck!!!

[JustAnotherGen]

279. No - but I will look later

And that's very true on the anti Semite thing. I don't want to derail the thread - but I noticed not at DU per SE - but in general folks who got on the "Black Lives Matter" bandwagon only after the Palestinians denounced the US justice system.

Not realizing Jews in America were lynched too. And well - a lot of Jewish young people were out marching with black folks.

Whose convert to Christianity to marry a prett girl grandfather took his wife and teenage daughter to the march on Washington?

My Grampa. . But growing up in Western PA he got it. His father had converted to Judaism - to marry a pretty girl - so my Grampa got things that some people never would. And his RAGE at the end of WW 2 as a young soldier guarding Eisenhower - there are some things he could never forgive or forget.

I wrote about his twin brother during the 2008 election. He was GOVing in his 80's as much for his parents and neice and her husband, and her children - as he was his brother.

[bravenak]

280. I noticed that too this summer.

People were showing up in IP threads who were here for a long time and never posted on that subject, just to be nasty as possible. One guy just went on and on with his hate, post after post... It was bizarre.
It's one thing to be anti war and have empathy. But the hate level towards Jews, rather than the right wing that controls the politics in Israel disturbs me. It's the right wing, not the people. Hell, both sides are run by right wingers, with all the people stuck in the middle. Bibi reminds me of Cheney and I wish people would remember how we felt when Cheney was running this nation.

I thought it had calmed down. But I think I have just been focused elsewhere. I'm now positive it's gotten worse .

[marym625]

289. They don't seem to be too fond of anyone

That isn't white and straight.

Do you sleep?

[bravenak]

292. Never!!

I do about five to seven hours a night.
But my timezone is Alaska so it's an hour behind California. I like to stay up late and jus take a nap during the day. I'm doing online courses in HTML5 between posts on DU. I wanted to watch the AA group to make sure I didn't need to block anybody.

[marym625]

293. totally get that!

Good for you for all you do! And thank you for all you do for DU.

[bravenak]

294. ....

[marym625]

295. Well you know I have to

and back

[Feral Child]

322. bravenak, sorry to break in here, off topic

but if you get a chance, please read my post #320 in this thread.

Have to give you credit. It was your posts on the "hidden" racism at DU that woke me up and made me look for it. I know you caught flack for your posts on the subject, but please know you weren't ineffectual; you got my attention.

Thanks, G/F.

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

328. Awesome. I never use those words even in private circles. I hate hate and hate words.

[bravenak]

329. Me too!! I hate them so much.

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

330. Seems there will always be 2 types of people in this world

Racist, bigoted assholes, and everyone else. Thankfully, I still believe we outnumber them, but we definitely need to stick together!

[bravenak]

331. Yes we do.

[arcane1]

246. For the first time in history, white men are expected to treat non-whites and women with civility

And some of them just cannot adapt to that change. It's the same infantilization that allows men to be regarded as not-quite-responsible for their sexual and/or violent actions. It's a need to remain in a state of perpetual spoiled boyhood, where they are the Only Thing That Matters, their asses need continuous kissing, and nothing is ever their fault.

I still like to think their numbers are dwindling.

[bravenak]

249. I do not understand the anger at not being special anymore.

And they seem to want sympathy from black people for their loss...
I don't get it.

[arcane1]

254. I think it's hard for them to accept being equal to people they thought were inferior to them

The implication being that they are just as inferior. Similar to how creationists have such a hard time putting themselves on any kind of equal footing with other mammals.

I never experienced either of those, since I never had a very high opinion of myself in the first place But I've seen people go through that kind of thought process (technically more like an emotional process). Of course that likely doesn't account for every one of them, but it's there.

Being an ignorant dumb-ass doesn't help matters either

[arcane1]

296. A great deal of self-loathing is required too. Comfortable people don't act this way.

Our friend Name Removed surely doesn't like what he sees in the mirror every morning.

[bravenak]

298. I'm thinking our friend ain't much to look at.

Probably a vampire.

[bravenak]

284. Another one!!!

283. Because non-white men have always treated women with so much respect, right?




White men have always treated women with the most respect, and we pretty much INVENTED women's rights. This "right wingers don't like non-whites and women" dog won't hunt. We love women, we just don't like non-whites and FEMINISTS. Non-whites don't like them either. If all white men disappeared off the face of earth tomorrow, there'd be no one left to protect women from the rampant misogyny that exists in non-white communities.

Be careful what you wish for.

You do this all day? Good grief!!

[arcane1]

297. And they continue to prove my point.

[bravenak]

299. Stupidest people in the world.

And obsessed with what white women do all the time. I get name removed that say the craziest things.

[arcane1]

300. There is definitely an undercurrent of sexual insecurity/envy in many of those posts.

Two sides of the same coin.

AKA two cheeks of the same ass.

[bravenak]

301. For suuure.

It trips me out everytime. Like, damn dudes, I know Idris Elba is fiiiine, but he can't steal aaaallll the white women.

[bravenak]

304. It's weird how obsessed they are with the inherent awesomeness of black men.

I understand it, but, they are just OBSESSED with black men in a sexual way.

[bravenak]

306. I feel like I have my own TMZ.

Yes, that is a fact.
It's jealousy of the, er, shall I say physical attributes they posses to please the ladies, or gentlemen.
An envy of sorts.

[bravenak]

308. Lol!

You ARE jealous... So cute! You need to go to Jeli School.

[bravenak]

310. I'm taking a nap, so, see you at 3, lol!!

Jealous.

[uppityperson]

242. who says only whites can be racist? Have you a good what privilege means? "for the sake of du"????

Welcome to du.

[bravenak]

247. You poor thang!!

So you came here for sympathy from black people?

[arcane1]

248. And to save DU!!!1

[bravenak]

250. Hahahahahaha!!!!

TBH....

[Hekate]

316. Another one preserved for posterity. It's acting on me like a purgative...

[Dont call me Shirley]

234. So many people actually refuse to believe things could be so bad for other human beings.

They believe the victims are not telling the truth, that they are exaggerating or trying to get pity or "faking it". I find this a bizarre phenomenon, but this is an underlying thought structure which causes people to fear and hate others.

This is a mentally manufactured lack of trust, which separates us. That we are separate is a lie. We are all one. We must all move our mental state into this awareness. We truly are our brothers' keeper.

Be kind to each other no matter gender, race, religion, sexual orientation.

[DonCoquixote]

255. side note

It is funny how many racists have to post here. Come on folks, Skinner gave you a nice clean sandbox called Discussionist, hoping you would play there. Of course, Priviledge does not have to have courtesy, so they will take discussionist, DU, and whatever and whoever else they can point to and say "mine mine mine! Feed me more!"

[steve2470]

258. wow, it seems like Stormfront emptied their sewers to troll this thread

I don't remember ever seeing a DU thread with as many PPR'ed people.

[arcane1]

260. Indeed, and MIRT is ON FIRE! They're PPR'ed before I even realize they've replied to me

[steve2470]

263. yes MIRT rocks!!!!

[JustAnotherGen]

277. The MIR team did a fantastic job this weekend too!

[Jackpine Radical]

262. maybe more people than you realize are doing that.

"shutting up about it and really listening to black people"

[marym625]

264. Unfortunately, the ones that aren't

Are usually pretty vile.

[Jackpine Radical]

287. That's no doubt true.

For me, though, the notion of assimilation is quite familiar, but the topic cultural appropriation is new to me & I haven't been exposed to minority thinking about it. I know it is a time to be quiet & read & think from the heart.

[marym625]

288. For me as well

Though I am not great at the being quiet part, I am good at the learning, reading, following the lead, reflecting part.

I believe the only time I have been aware of the appropriation is in music and dance.

[Feral Child]

269. KICK & REC!

[riqster]

281. Fantastic OP. Thanks for writing it.

Shutting up and listening isn't controversial: it's common sense. After all, how can we hear anything if we aren't listening?

This applies to almost any topic where one is ignorant. And as a white guy, I am sure my knowledge of what it's like to live as a POC in America is pretty scant.

[MrScorpio]

282. Rec before, kicking now...

[Bill USA]

312. I do think that the ignorant asses (i.e. trolls of the internet)

make a lot more noise than their numbers would lead you to expect. I think the many sensible, reasonable people are not nearly as prone to posting comments as the simpletons are. I don't think this can be quantified in any way, but I do believe that the internet, with the anonymity it provides, offers an ideal place for idiots - who most people would not stand around to listen to - to sound off ad infinitum.

Also, I have a personal theory that the creation of the Disgustingest (aka: the Discussionist) web site has encouraged the intellectually challenged and the emotionally immature to venture forth on DU to proudly proclaim and parade their ignorance before the grownups (they are at the psychological core, children who feel most people around them have more power than they do - thus they perceive them as 'grown-ups').

The one thing they live for is ATTENTION! and they don't care at all if it comes in the form of disgust or condemnation. This gives the timorous ones a feeling of being impactful. It's an imitation of strength. It's really the same thing the nut-job ISIS guys are doing. For those who feel powerless and unable to cope with real competition and pull off real achievement (which requires hard work and sacrifice) it's a way to get ersatz achievement and importance. Commit crimes and you get quick attention.

....... "Wow, look how powerful I am. All the legitimate people are paying attention TO ME!"

[ellenrr]

321. ++

[Hekate]

317. KnR for a better New Year here

Though after the reading I've done for the past several hours, I don't really expect it any more. >smh<