African American
Related: About this forumI was doing my daily google and came across this (X-Posted to DU:GD)...
http://financialjuneteenth.com/yale-professor-says-african-americans-economic-disadvantage-is-the-social-justice-issue-of-our-time/And it occurred to me ... as so often is the case, when Black folks and white folks talk about economic justice, we are talking about two very different things. For white people talk about economic justice, and please correct me if I have this wrong, they are talking about parity between economic classes (i.e., the 1%); whereas, Black folks are referencing intra-class parity (which is a social issue) AND, to a lesser degree, extra-class parity.
I think this is the disconnect I sense in the economic primacy message.
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Panich52
(5,829 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)By "parity between economic classes", I mean a closing of the income gap between classes. Extra-class parity would mean the same thing.
I'll go back and see if I mis-wrote. Thanks.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)I re-read what I wrote ... it came out of my fingers correctly.
rock
(13,218 posts)I am an old white guy and cannot tell what folks (of any culture) are talking about when they talk about economic justice. It's too vague a word for me to get a handle on. But I like you're theory. 
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)the 10%ers fight to close their income gap with the 1%ers. And, that made sense because most of the income equality solutions proffered, like eliminating carry forward, increasing taxes, removing the cap on SS, would have little to no effect on the bottom 80+%ers.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)I could give conflicting examples.
Does economic justice lead to social justice?
Once again, I could give conflicting examples.
Your starting point is good, but is circumvented by those who claim every bad thing comes from the 1% and the 99% are all in the same boat. Those who hew to the line that it's all a conspiracy of (insert overused or overwrought memes here) will never hear you.
snpsmom
(682 posts)for politicians (like Bernie Sanders) to talk about / focus on income inequality.
JustAnotherGen
(31,828 posts)The majority of African American households fall into the unbanked or underbanked categories, making African Americans the largest racial group in these categories. This means that most African American families do not have the same access to affordable financial solutions as many white Americans. Yale professor Frederick Wherry (pictured) states, “African Americans were supposed to benefit from the deregulation of banks under Reagan. That didn’t happen because of systemic, racially biased policies like redlining. Then it looked as if there would be great opportunities under Clinton for blacks to get into the credit system, but as the housing market expanded, African Americans became targets for subprime lenders. They were deceived like millions of Americans. But the difference is that black families were already at a historical disadvantage – so [they] had much more to lose.”
Coates had it right - we are so far behind - even at the same income levels.
And try as they may to tell me a bunch of bullshit that Obama 'sold us out' - The hell?
FDR and Truman could have done a lot better . . . Seems to me that new deal was a raw deal for some eh?
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)giving lie to a prevalent DU narrative.
Spazito
(50,375 posts)often used in the argument for why economic justice will bring social justice ignores the reality not everyone has a boat to be lifted especially those affected by racial discrimination.
Social justice would ensure everyone had an equal chance to have a boat to lift first and then economic justice would come closer to achieving parity.
These are my thoughts after reading your OP.
Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)Hi I never posted in African American group before, hopefully it will be OK and I did not read the rules first.
For most people economic justice means that people should have some basic guarantees in life. That if we do make a reasonable attempt to participate and work in society then we should have some basic guarantees for jobs, housing, health care, education, pensions, food, and basic economic security in life so we can live with dignity and not in constant fear.
That's what most people mean by economic justice and it's the same across races and even around the world.
But also yes, you're right there are also differences, black vs. white.
The economic attitudes of the groups will be shaped by the different struggles that they face.
Like for example we know the organized labor movement has been a major equalizing force that has helped workers of all colors. But at the same time we know the ugly truth that at sometimes white-dominated unions have worked with management to discriminate against black workers. For those black workers economic justice meant trying to achieve equal treatment with their white co-workers.
To some extent the interests of the black and white workers were aligned, but they were also different. A good example of this was DRUM union that fought for fair treatment for black auto workers in the 1960s. There's a good movie about that Finally Got the News (https://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=RgJd_MvJVzg)
In the story of DRUM the real tragedy was how the white-dominated union sold out the black workers and collaborated with the company to cheat black workers and even put their lives at risk.
The system we have uses white privilege as a way of getting white people to buy into the system. White supremacy is part of what makes the system work. When whites and blacks are fighting each other then they can't unite to fight the 1%.
Socialists seek working class unity among people of all races and cultures. We should unite to bring a swift end to this economic system that exploits all workers.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)and you did just fine in this thread.
Now to shake stuff up ...
I would agree/would have agreed; but for, my DU experience, where "economic justice" was never mentioned until recently ... instead, the term was "income inequality." And, during that "period", NONE of the stuff that you mention was ever mentioned (by the people who argued "income inequality", but are now arguing "economic justice" ... who are, also, self-identified 10%ers); rather, it meant raising taxes on the wealthy and ending carry forward tax treatment and removing the cap on SS and a bunch of other prescriptions that would accomplish none of what you cite ... rather, every prescription would "punish" the 1%ers, close the income gap for the 10-20%ers (relative to the 1%ers), and leave the bottom 80% unaffected.
In fact, these same "economic justice" folks were cheerfully, advocating going over the fiscal cliff and lambasting President Obama for making the Bush tax cuts permanent for the wealthy, even though by doing so, he kept government open (i.e., SS checks, WIC funds, emergency housing for the poor kept flowing) and U/C got extended for the long-term unemployed.
And these are the same people that consistently argue, in contra to what you have just noted, that economic justice will bring social justice.
So, Sorry ... my patience has worn thin because economic justice means something very different from what is cast as such on DU.
Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)I don't see how we can ever possibly provide a basic dignified life for all the people until we push the 1% out of power. That's the super-rich people and the large corporations that dominate the economic and political life of the country. It's not to punish them. It's that they are waging a war on working class people and we should fight back or else we will suffer.
As far as economic justice vs. social justice, I get confused because to me it's not clear which issues are part of social justice and which ones are economic justice. I thought maybe economic justice is one part of social justice, because 'social' refers to the whole society. 'Economic' is so many things. Like economic life includes everything that has to do with the production and distribution of goods and services so that society can keep running, everything about how money works and who controls it, everything we do at work, our paychecks, the price of food, the rent. I just don't understand how economic life is not part of social justice, or why anybody would want to frame a discussion as a competition between various just causes, which we could probably support all of.
JustAnotherGen
(31,828 posts)In the meantime -
Re-Implement Glass Steagall - that's something D.C. Can Do.
Stop the Trade Deficit (TPP - not certain as I've not seen the text) - another D.C. Can Do
*Fair and honest - these are things O'Malley champions that I agree with
Stop bailing out Trump - a Trenton NJ can do.
Stop supporting developers who don't develop - A Trenton NJ Can Do.
In my town - working with a cross section of political activists-
Ensure our borough doesn't get absorbed into a township. Our local p.d. - when the chips were down last month - protected two Hispanic high school boys walking home from practice from Christie's boys in tactical gear. They know our children - all of them - all colors - and they protect them.
Ensure we uplift the deli that said the deli owner who put up a White History month sign brought shame on our community. Check that off the list - Jimbo's is gone - the bagel place is the most popular business on main street.
Beg, borrow, steal a few liquor licenses. If not - push Trenton to allow beer/wine/liquor if served at tables (this is huge to make us into a New Hope or Somerville).
Give that tax break. If a homegrown daughter or son wants to pull their business out of Manhattan and bring it home - and can provide an hourly wage of $20 to $30 - make it happen. Free up the Dunkin Donuts job for high school kids, retires who are financially settled but bored out of their minds, the SAHM or SAHD that wants a part time gig. Put in the borough, make it walk able, and let's get people back to where they were before the Big Pharma lay offs on Route 202. The restaurant night life owners can offset the property tax.
Nothing on the first level of Main Street that doesn't bring visitors here on a Saturday evening. Law firms, accounting firms, etc etc can be off main or the second or third level.
Continue outreach to the food bank and community kitchen in the interim. It's summer - and we are actively working to get Lunch Donations - and it's working. The kids in our schools whose parents have not recovered from the down turn aren't getting their school lunches this week - we need to make sure their parents know we are here to give them a hand.
Make sure people without papers know this is a safe haven and to come out of the shadows and take our hands. We see the guy coming in from PA and offering them a days work in Newark. And we know there are folks being waaaay underpaid and basically abused as home cleaners, yard workers, etc etc. If you see something, say something, and for those who can afford it - steal that "nanny away" and offer her the $12 cash an hour, pay the guy helping you lay sod $12 an hour. And I'm putting it at that rate because tat s the after tax (there about) rate after taxes if they were on the books.
I'm giving all of these examples because they can be done - because they are being done.
To hell with waiting for people three states away or 40 miles away with helping us.
If they wanted to - they would have by now.
And regardless of who is in the Governors Mansion or White House - Defiance is the word of the day.
Economic Justice is tied to Social Justice - but it starts down the street, in your backyard, around the corner, in the town hall.. .
Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)If they wanted to - they would have by now.
And regardless of who is in the Governors Mansion or White House - Defiance is the word of the day.
Economic Justice is tied to Social Justice - but it starts down the street, in your backyard, around the corner, in the town hall.. .
I haven't heard it said any better than that. That almost belongs on a poster or something.
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)Part of me would like to think that it is simple ignorance driving this mentality. For us (white people), money is the biggest problem we face. It's easy to understand that, without the proper perspective, people might assume that everyone shares in their particular problem.
But I wonder if there's something a little deeper at work here. Money is an "easy" fix, in the sense that it is material. A simple redistribution of wealth and, presto-chango, everything is fine. I'd wager that's a much more comforting thought to white people than the prospect that racial iniquity is deeply ingrained in the white zeitgeist.
Number23
(24,544 posts)Every word of it makes perfect sense, at least to me. Thanks for posting that.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)This right here:
I think you are onto something here ... I frequent and noticeable sub-text that pokes its head up in many of the "racism"/"white privilege" threads is the question, "Okay ... We all know the problem that is racism (and white privilege, if they acknowledge it, at all) ... what can we do to fix it?"
But when the plain answer is given: "Think about your actions and Change your actions, Think about your thoughts and Change your thoughts, Think about those white folks around you and Work to change those white folks around you", that ends the discussion ... until the next racism/white privilege thread, when the same posters, ask the same question.