African American
Related: About this forum*** This is posted to the African-American Group - Respond, or not, Appropriately, or not ***
I'm posting this to the African-American Group because I want to get this out there without rebuttal, refutation or any other silliness. I want folks, particular folks, to hear what I am saying without the apparent compulsion to provide a response, that frequently short-circuits reason.
Here is my response to Bernie supporters:
I don't need to tell anyone here about the constant stream of Black bloggers/video guys, singing the praises of Bernie, being posted on DU.
So there are Black folks that support Bernie ... Great! Good on those Black Bernie supporters! They have taken a political stance (I say "they" because I'm not seeing many self-identified Black DUers that support Bernie, posting these OPs/videos)... but so what? They STILL are in the vast minority of Black sentiment ... just as Ben Carson is in the vast minority of Black sentiment.
Further, you can post videos of all 222 #Blacks4Bernie followers AND the 1,232 that they are following (https://twitter.com/Blacks4Bernie) and the 1,816 people that "liked" the African-Americans For Bernie Sanders Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/AfricanAmericansForBernie), and guess what ... they STILL would be in the vast, vast minority of Black sentiment.
So just stop it ... your desperation is bordering on comical and as effective as when conservatives trot out the writings/videos of Sowell and EJ Jackson.
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)Let's all keep working for the best! Cheers!
still_one
(92,408 posts)why.
As for the OP, yes, a lot of the posts are patronizing. No doubt it is a defensive mechanism, such as "some of my best friends are________", fill in your favorite demographic.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)I really would have liked to post it in the Bernie Group, since that is where it would do the most good (but I can't ... I'm blocked). So I will tee this up for general consumption in DU:GD-P (though it will likely be hidden).
I just wanted people to read it ... perhaps, take a moment to understand it ... before they got to pounding their key boards.
still_one
(92,408 posts)
onpatrol98
(1,989 posts)It's hard to believe some of these people are Bernie supporters. I have been thinking...well, maybe Bernie would be good for America. But, it's getting to the place where it would be hard to separate what Bernie says from the vitriol his DU supporters spew.
If you're on the fence, some of his DU supporters would send you running to Hilary Clinton. I'm giving her a second look. I have to. I mean, if his supporters can be like this...I'm beginning to think, maybe Bernie's got a little bit of it in him, too.
They behave as if he's not to be challenged. Maybe Bernie's like that, also. And, I just haven't seen it, yet. I hope this is a short campaign. They didn't mind challenging Obama. They didn't mind heckling the 1st lady and she wasn't even an elected official. But, Bernie...no. No one has the right to suggest Bernie speak to black people. What the hell? This would be the first time in my life, supporters changed my mind about a candidate.
JustAnotherGen
(31,902 posts)
From one Group Host to Another - every point you made was fair.
Iliyah
(25,111 posts)
sheshe2
(83,921 posts)
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)
Spazito
(50,477 posts)
BumRushDaShow
(129,491 posts)there are far too many on DU of late who need to get out of the mindset that they know what is "best" for we AAs. And they need to know that it is offensive and presumptuous to assume that we will embrace their interpretation of who we are, what we do, why we do it, who we associate with, when we choose to associate, how we live, why we live, who we love, and who we support.
You don't define us.
Glassunion
(10,201 posts)Well put.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)they can find the random (even if popular) Black person agrees with them (and I won't go into popular among whom) ... Hell, how many times does it need to be pointed out, these Black Bernie supporters are as representative of Black sentiment, as Ben Carson and/or Charles Barkley!
BumRushDaShow
(129,491 posts)-Malcolm X
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)"Use a negro to kill a negro" ... That Willie Lynch play has been run since the mid-1800s.
(Pre-emptive Note: Whether Willie Lynch was real or a fictitious character is of no relevance.)
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Marissa's response to a piece in The Stranger, a Seattle weekly. Posted at DU. I won't read or comment on the thread, but I read the OP and the link there:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027075773
Seems people are diagnosing the women in BLM without medical credentials, which I obect to strongly. JMHO.
BKH70041
(961 posts)Last edited Tue Aug 11, 2015, 02:38 PM - Edit history (1)
Won't matter. They don't believe it. This is beyond their ability to wrap their heads around.
To them, Sanders had the AA community wrapped up. Overcoming economic inequality is the foundation upon which every issue of concern in the USA needs to be addressed. And who would understand the problems associated with income inequality better than the AA community who have suffered more than any under the jackboot of the corporate plutocracy? This was a marriage made in heaven.
That AA's are not 100% on board with Bernie has completely thrown them for a loop. It just can't be. Haven't you seen his resume?!? Have you ever heard of MLK, Jr.?
Just look at poster #1. There's a Sanders supporter who is still absolutely sure that, even if what you said is true, "things change." Well, maybe they do, but there's no indication Sanders campaign is changing direction except for putting out a few dictates, and continuing down the same path will assure things won't change.
And the verdict is still open as to whether Clinton can properly address the concerns, so there's no assurance there. Trust has to be earned, as we all know.
I don't care to discourage you, but I think you'd be wasting your time. You're a smart guy, so you gotta know what you have to say is going to fall on deaf ears. They can't allow it to be true. It just can't be, so it won't be.
The fallout when reality hits home is still 6+ months away for them. But good luck to you, whatever your decision as far as reposting elsewhere.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)I think you are spot on about the "why" ...
So many have said as much.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,714 posts)Folks need to know the difference between many, most, and all..
FOX has no problem assembling whole panels of African Americans critical of President Obama but that doesn't obviate the fact that most African Americans are fond of him.
mcar
(42,375 posts)glowing
(12,233 posts)I went to college in SC. I now live in the Tampa Bay in FL. It's been a long, pathetic running joke that VT itself has such little diversity inside of its borders... But really, it's snow and farms and service jobs for leaf peepers and ski resorts, so it doesn't have much of a large draw for anyone to live there... One of the reasons why I did leave the state, but my whole family still lives there, so I do manage to get back as often as I can afford a ticket.
For some reason, even though we aren't all that diverse, many of us are rather liberal or maybe logical? We literally choose our town policies at town hall meetings. It's a holiday off, kids out of school, and town and school board business is conducted, typically in school gyms across the state. I remember Bernie coming to my house back when he ran for congress and my Mom was on the schoolboard. She had plenty of opinions to express; guess the apple doesn't fall far from the tree (lol).
When I moved to the south, I didn't fear diversity. One of my longest relationships in college, in SC, was with a bi-racial man. And I'm, now, married to a Native American/ 1/2 Irish man (yes in a real tribe with enrollment ID). So, being from a white liberal state doesn't mean a whole lot other than the state does a horrible job at bringing people into the state to take up residency (unless you have a bit of money or are "fruity tootie" and like living off of nuts and berries). And living in TB, FL is quite normal for all sorts of interracial relationships; especially the younger couples become and the older I get. So, there are some really good and accepting things that are happening in this country that bring us beyond skin pigment; and that is LOVE. And that is a good thing.
Now, all that personal BS aside about my little life and most Vermonters being a "let live" type of state with most people having the decency to help one another out, I do understand that the system our country operates within, is a white male patriarchy. The police are there to pretect the system and not the most of us. And in particular, we know they choose to target minority populations (which is now majority in FL) more than they do me. I've been in the pulled over car of my ex in SC; I've seen the BS first hand. I've seen the stares and heard the comments before... I didn't give a crap what they thought, but I've experienced it. I've also experienced sexism; especially in the field of science I have a degree in and haven't had the opportunity to do a lot with. I'm all for tearing down that great white male wall!
It's everyone's personal decision whom they will vote for or advocate for. There are people who say some really crappy things; especially during the primaries. It's a given. I personally am more than happy to have BLM demands come to fruition. I would love to see our War on Drugs obliterated. Prisons torn down and college/ trade schools built up. I would love to see fair housing and more streets to look as diverse as the one I live on now all across America. I like that my child has a "rainbow coalition" of friends. I hate the crap Trump spouts off.
I'm sorry that anyone who calls themselves a liberal or progressive has come out with a bunch of BS. I think Bernie's trying to address a lot of major issues happening in this country and around the world all at once. It's what needs to happen. We have to protect the environment on large and make our personal environments much better. Calling names and attacking one another is the politics of division and hate. The opposite is love and unity. (My old saying of "I'd rather Fuck than be fucked over", is still pertinent).
And all that said, I still am unsure how I will vote in the primary.
JustAnotherGen
(31,902 posts) 
MrScorpio
(73,631 posts)
Cha
(297,686 posts)freshwest
(53,661 posts)
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)Because even though I'm growing to despise the nuttier dudebros in his supporter base (they're oh so similar to the Ron Paul '08 crowd) and their smearing of BLM, I happen to really like the candidate...
It's not always easy, but I can keep the two separate in my head...
But I have a growing fear that not only are the dudebros going to cost Sanders any shot he has at the nomination, they will make sure BLM gets the full public blame for it while disappearing into the woodwork...
JustAnotherGen
(31,902 posts)BLM may very well be used as a fall guy in certain quarters.
Just the same - I want them (BLM) to keep reloading. The time is now.
Number23
(24,544 posts)more than any other.
Not that this ever stops the imbeciles from calling me a "Hillary supporter" because I don't hesitate to condemn the crap that Sanders supporters spew so often.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)I like Sanders best, but I think his "dudebro" supporters (love that term) are going to cost him the election. I'm afraid people think, "Oh yeah, Sanders, he'll be great" and then see his supporters carry on and then think, "Oh wait, maybe I had the wrong impression of him."
independentpiney
(1,510 posts)NanceGreggs
(27,818 posts)
Exultant Democracy
(6,594 posts)is not ok in my book. You could have made the same argument 8 years ago about me when I was supporting Obama when the majority of black people were still strongly with the Clintons, and it would have been just as unreasonable then as it is now.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Something every recognizes of Black republicans ... Granted,for different reasons, though.
Exultant Democracy
(6,594 posts)and trotting them out as the token black for republicans is terrible and they are for the most part terrible people. The black majority is with the democrats, because the republicans hate us as a race.
Sanders wasn't fighting against civil rights. The majority of black americans do not even know who he is, only a very small politically aware subset. Your claims of us being an outliers are based only on the perceptions of an outlier population within our community. Like most americans at best around 10% of the population is paying attention to this election right now.
What you are doing is effectively trying to silence us by comparing us to something that is truly horrible, therefor making sure to silence our voices before black america actually gets a chance to make a choice. It is not a legitimate argument and it isn't fair to the vast majority of black americans that already rejected Clinton once at the polls.
The fact that everything you say could have been aid about me as an Obama supporter should give you some pause. You are effectively saying that I was just like a Ben Carson supporter 8 years ago when I was yelling and screaming for black people to wake up and support Obama already.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)True.
Somewhat true. But that does not change the fact that at this point Black Bernie supporters represent outliers among the Black community. I reject the idea that Black folks are low information voters.
Not true. I am not silencing anyone. And there is no "vast majority of black americans that already rejected Clinton once at the polls." There are Black folks that chose President Obama over HRC in 2008 ... and we will decide again in 2016, but at this point, Bernie is NOT the choice and it is NOT because
Not true. I have not compared anyone to a Black republician SUPPORTER ... I am merely saying that Bernie supporters are political outliers.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)not distinguishing between what should be (in their view) and what is. As a Bernie supporter, they worry me.
Number23
(24,544 posts)ONE positive story on Bernie Sanders. And I thought this might be a good place to put it. I was even going to do an OP in this forum about it if it was compelling enough.
The only problem is, I couldn't find one. I went to The Root, the Grio, Black Snob, Essence, Ebony, Racialicious, Black America Web, News One, and Black Voices and could not find a single pro-Sanders piece.
There were an absolute AVALANCHE of pieces criticizing his response to #BLM and there were some excellent ones criticizing white liberals in general but I could not find a single pro-Sanders piece anywhere on traditional black media.
And this is very much in keeping with the reporting that so far, he is primarily appealing to affluent whites and mostly males. And of course, every time this inconvenient fact gets mentioned in GD-P, oh how they howl!! The really blatant, really obvious truth is like garlic to a vampire to these people. The more it gets put in front of them, they louder they scream when they're not anxiously high fiving themselves and nervously shouting how "cool" they are at one another to drown out the tsunami of people saying otherwise.
One of the most scathing pieces I read was about Sanders back track and rescinding on the apology sent to #BLM by his own Negro Outreach Director. Anyone that is not concerned about this man's reach and his performance in minority communities right now is living in denial. That simply could not be more obvious.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)I read here on DU, that the apology was made by "a staffer" (read: someone acting beyond the scope f otheir authority). That this was the person tasked to actually reach out to "minorities", makes the back tracking, and the characterization, all the worse.
It's not denial (for most) ... It's just not caring. In the estimation of the white (and, some non-white) Bernie supporter, he has (and by extension, they have) done enough on race, and if (the majority of) Black folks can't see it, that's their/our problem ... Bernie will just convert enough disaffected "working class" (read: white) voters to replace them/us.
Number23
(24,544 posts)title, that's why I called him the Negro Outreach Director. Edit: Says the guy's name is Marcus Ferrell. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-no-apology-to-black-lives-matter_55d0b03ce4b0ab468d9d920d?section=australia&adsSiteOverride=au
It's not denial (for most) ... It's just not caring. In the estimation of the white (and, some non-white) Bernie supporter, he has (and by extension, they have) done enough on race, and if (the majority of) Black folks can't see it, that's their/our problem ... Bernie will just convert enough disaffected "working class" (read: white) voters to replace them/us.
Absolutely right. They've made that as obvious as humanly possible.
randys1
(16,286 posts)something right now.
If you are a Democrat, you WILL need their support, and if you are a republican, you will deal with BLM one way or another.
I think BLM changes everything, quite frankly
