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1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
Thu Aug 27, 2015, 11:49 AM Aug 2015

With the exception of the DC Sniper ...

can anyone cite to an instance of a Black killer, randomly killing people, with whom they had no connection?

Off and on, last night ... I spent a couple hours on that question and couldn't come up with a single other instance.

50 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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With the exception of the DC Sniper ... (Original Post) 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 OP
Colin Ferguson? (nt) Recursion Aug 2015 #1
Wayne Williams ? GusBob Aug 2015 #2
To this day, I have questions as to Wayne Williams' guilt. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #5
I was at regal Cinema's wilt the stilt Aug 2015 #3
list of mass killings since 1982 alc Aug 2015 #4
Thanks. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #6
Even so Depaysement Aug 2015 #29
I disagree. 10 of 71 works out to about 14.2% of the incidents Glassunion Aug 2015 #36
Very few, the overwhelming majority of this shit is done by non Black people randys1 Aug 2015 #7
99% of mass murderers, serial killers and snipers are white folks. leftofcool Aug 2015 #8
Not quite ... GeorgeGist Aug 2015 #11
Okay, so I was off a few percentage points. leftofcool Aug 2015 #26
That's just for mass murder .. not snipers and serial killers... I'd like to see the stats on that uponit7771 Aug 2015 #43
Dorner (Christopher?) JustAnotherGen Aug 2015 #9
Agreed ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #13
You tell no lies! JustAnotherGen Aug 2015 #15
I remember I posted something like that in another ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #17
There are Black killers but..... blackspade Aug 2015 #45
Or to put it another way ismnotwasm Aug 2015 #10
I love that! JustAnotherGen Aug 2015 #16
Perfect! nt brer cat Aug 2015 #34
Excellent response. blackspade Aug 2015 #46
I've been curious about this kjones Aug 2015 #12
See Post 13 ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #14
Alton Coleman Chitown Kev Aug 2015 #18
Yes ... Being from Ohio, I recall Coleman and Brown's killing spree ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #19
But Coleman's murders Chitown Kev Aug 2015 #22
"Mass Shootings Have a Gender and a Race" Starry Messenger Aug 2015 #20
I'd love to see the data behind this ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #21
or are they talking about shootings Chitown Kev Aug 2015 #23
The article linked to a survey of reports off of wikipedia Starry Messenger Aug 2015 #30
Thanks. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #31
that is interesting. brer cat Aug 2015 #35
+1, Here's a map to the MASS SHOOTINGS.. (not just mass murders) uponit7771 Aug 2015 #44
I posted an op ed piece about this a little while back gollygee Aug 2015 #24
I'm certain it wasn't. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #25
here it is gollygee Aug 2015 #27
So many usual suspects in that one ismnotwasm Aug 2015 #28
Oh god. I recced that but then never had a chance to go back to it. Starry Messenger Aug 2015 #33
Also the Navy Yard guy (nt) Recursion Aug 2015 #32
I'd agree that "random" instances are rare among black killing sprees. Glassunion Aug 2015 #37
Scott Walker says we need more mental health help so this doesnt happen, right after he SLASHED randys1 Aug 2015 #38
Gang killings in major American cities often take out innocent lives - cwydro Aug 2015 #39
But the gang killings are NOT targeting those innocents ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #40
i thought dc sniper was more about killing his wife and getting away with it by inventing a scenario seabeyond Aug 2015 #41
Aaron Alexis NutmegYankee Aug 2015 #42
I remember that guy - one french fry short of a happy meal JustAnotherGen Aug 2015 #47
He was actually sent back to Norfolk because of his craziness. NutmegYankee Aug 2015 #48
Though it was not proven, the DC sniper may have been trying to kill his ex-wife. MADem Sep 2015 #49
Serial Killer demographics are fairly consistent across races Kurska Sep 2015 #50
 

wilt the stilt

(4,528 posts)
3. I was at regal Cinema's
Thu Aug 27, 2015, 12:12 PM
Aug 2015

and they are now checking women's pocketbooks for guns. I went over to the African American security guy and said "it's white guys with guns who shoot everyone up" and he laughed.

alc

(1,151 posts)
4. list of mass killings since 1982
Thu Aug 27, 2015, 12:30 PM
Aug 2015

Source: Mother Jones. If you don't like the source you at least get a list of names to google. I think their source was FBI records a few years ago and updates from media since.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XV4mZi3gYDgwx5PrLwqqHTUlHkwkV-6uy_yeJh3X46o/edit#gid=0

By my quick count 10 of 71 are listed as "black" but when I first saw the list I had some questions about their categorization of something (don't remember what). It doesn't say if there is a connection with the victims but most have links to a news source so you can probably find out.

Glassunion

(10,201 posts)
36. I disagree. 10 of 71 works out to about 14.2% of the incidents
Fri Aug 28, 2015, 11:08 AM
Aug 2015

Which pretty much aligns with the AA population, which IIRC is about 13.8% of the US population.

randys1

(16,286 posts)
7. Very few, the overwhelming majority of this shit is done by non Black people
Thu Aug 27, 2015, 12:43 PM
Aug 2015

Has to be a stat somewhere to prove that

JustAnotherGen

(31,828 posts)
9. Dorner (Christopher?)
Thu Aug 27, 2015, 01:30 PM
Aug 2015

A few years ago - that one and the DC Sniper were immediate. In terms of swooping in with a gun.

I put serial killers in a different bucket. It's a different profile - John Douglas and Mark Olshaker - their books (co-authors) have me place a serial killer in a different bucket.

And I'm in agreement with you on Williams - I'm not certain he did it.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
13. Agreed ...
Thu Aug 27, 2015, 02:27 PM
Aug 2015

I guess what I'm teasing out is ... Yes, there ARE Black people that kill, even multiple people; but, when it happens, it rarely is random ... there is some connection between the killer and the killed (e.g., co-workers, family members, members of a rival gang, in the commission of another crime, etc.).

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
17. I remember I posted something like that in another ...
Thu Aug 27, 2015, 03:34 PM
Aug 2015

"but Black people kill, too" thread ... and found myself engaged in a "Nice victim blaming" discussion.

blackspade

(10,056 posts)
45. There are Black killers but.....
Mon Aug 31, 2015, 01:50 PM
Aug 2015

their numbers are small in proportion to the M$M "Oh shit, Blacks are out to get white people" propaganda.
Notice (I know you have) that Black people who kill are more often than not given 'special' treatment as 'terrorists' or some other layer of purpose above and beyond the actual deed itself.

A good example is the M$M treatment of the guy that killed the two newspeople in VA, and that asshole that murdered nine in Charleston.

ismnotwasm

(41,989 posts)
10. Or to put it another way
Thu Aug 27, 2015, 01:52 PM
Aug 2015

(Forgive the levity)

Am I racist if I feel uncomfortable about a guy with a turban on my plane because this isn't okay with me
— Ryan Carr (@HardRCarr)


Ashishpal Singh –
@YungAshuSingh
@HardRCarr ugh I know what you mean, I get really uncomfortable whenever I see a white man
walk into a movie theater or elementary school
2:00 PM - 5 Aug 2014
8,810 8,810 Retweets 13,549 13,549 favorites

http://www.buzzfeed.com/rossalynwarren/heres-a-funny-response-to-a-guy-who-said-he-was-uncomfortabl#.rxJ3Y4vYR

kjones

(1,053 posts)
12. I've been curious about this
Thu Aug 27, 2015, 02:26 PM
Aug 2015

I really don't know the statistics, but assuming there is a significant difference
(and I believe there is, certainly at least in mass killings), the real question is "why?"

Do Black individuals commit less of that type of violence, do White individuals
commit more, or a little of both? What might account for that? I've never
even come up with any hunches. What about other conceivable demographic
divisions (age, sex, religion, etc)? I guess there's probably a study out there
somewhere...anyway, pretty odd.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
19. Yes ... Being from Ohio, I recall Coleman and Brown's killing spree ...
Thu Aug 27, 2015, 07:04 PM
Aug 2015

but their case supports my theory:

Yes, there ARE Black people that kill, even multiple people; but, when it happens, it rarely is random ... there is some connection between the killer and the killed (e.g., co-workers, family members, members of a rival gang, in the commission of another crime, etc.).


In their case, sexual assault.

Chitown Kev

(2,197 posts)
22. But Coleman's murders
Thu Aug 27, 2015, 07:37 PM
Aug 2015

WERE pretty random, it seems...he took his time getting to know the strangers that he eventually raped and/or killed.

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
20. "Mass Shootings Have a Gender and a Race"
Thu Aug 27, 2015, 07:21 PM
Aug 2015
http://www.politicalresearch.org/2014/06/19/mass-shooters-h



Although White individuals made up 69.2% of arrests for crimes in 20111, Black men still account for the majority of the prison population, more than six times as likely to be incarcerated than White men. Black men are also subjected, according to Lawrence Grossman, former President of CBS News and PBS, to media stereotyping where TV newscasts “disproportionately show African Americans under arrest, living in slums, on welfare, and in need of help from the community.” However, men of color do not represent the majority of school shooters or mass murderers.

<snip>

Recent studies reveal that most school shooters are White males, with 97 percent being male and 79 percent White. Over the last three decades, 90 percent of high school or elementary school shootings were the result of White, often upper-middle class, perpetrators. These shootings are a direct reflection of White male privilege and the consequences that occur when groups like the NRA control influential conservative leaders.

Before his May 23rd premeditated killing spree, Elliot Rodger2 posted a YouTube video saying his intention was to “slaughter every single spoiled stuck up blonde slut I see” inside a sorority house, because they “all would have rejected [him] and looked down upon [him] as an inferior man if [he] ever made a sexual advance towards them.” These chilling comments cannot be simply regarded as nonsense from a “madman,” because they actually represent the deeply entrenched manifestation of our misogynistic society. Furthermore, the case of Elliot Rodger exposes the prevailing intersection between gender and race of gun violence.

There is a pattern in these school shootings that has been coined as “suicide-by-mass-murder,” and seems to be an almost-exclusively young-White-male phenomenon. Michael Kimmel, a Distinguished Professor of Sociology at Stony Brook University and founder of the academic journal Men and Masculinity, has been conducting research on the intersection between race and gender of American school shooters, and observed that “victims of [young men of color] are usually those whom the shooter believes have wronged him. And it rarely ends with his suicide. .. White men, on the other hand, have a somewhat more grandiose purpose…’If I’m going to die, then so is everybody else,’ they seem to say. Yes, of course, this is mental illness speaking: but it is mental illness speaking with a voice that has a race and a gender.”

<snip>



I still get a twitch when I think of the Eliot Rodger threads here at DU. Trying to get this concept across in GD was painful. But one Black man performs a mass shooting and boy people just leapt on "OMG, he hated white people!!11" But Eliot Rodger was just mentally ill, and just happened to write a several page manifesto on how much he hated women, so nothing to see here!
 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
21. I'd love to see the data behind this ...
Thu Aug 27, 2015, 07:35 PM
Aug 2015
Recent studies reveal that most school shooters are White males, with 97 percent being male and 79 percent White.


Do they count the Black female that brings a gun and shoots the girl that stole her boyfriend, the same as the kid that plans the attack to kill as many as possible?

Chitown Kev

(2,197 posts)
23. or are they talking about shootings
Thu Aug 27, 2015, 07:41 PM
Aug 2015

that took place maybe slightly off school grounds...did they have a certain "body count" in mind...etc.

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
30. The article linked to a survey of reports off of wikipedia
Thu Aug 27, 2015, 08:52 PM
Aug 2015
https://davinasquirrel.wordpress.com/2012/04/13/school-shootings/ She focused on school shootings, I'll see if there are more.

The article I posted points to the motivation being different for revenge killings between Black students, and doesn't count them as the same as mass killings meant to bring notoriety, and usually, a gory way of committing suicide by cop, after, for the white spree killers.

It links to an article that goes into more depth: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-kimmel/the-unbearable-whiteness-_2_b_2350931.html



<snip>

This new phenomenon of suicide-by-mass-murder has emerged as a corollary to the earlier suicide-by-cop as a phenomenon of those whose real goal is, at least in part, to kill themselves -- and to take out as many of "them" as possible on the way. And this seems to be an entirely white male thing.

In urban settings, when young men of color experience that same sense of aggrieved entitlement - that perception of victimhood despite everything men expect for themselves - they may react violently, and even with lethal violence. But the victims of their violence are usually those whom the shooter believes have wronged him, and the unintended and accidental victims caught in the line of fire. And it rarely ends with his suicide.

White men, on the other hand, have a somewhat more grandiose purpose: they want to destroy the entire world in some cataclysmic, video-game, and action movie-inspired apocalypse. If I'm going to die, then so is everybody else, they seem to say. Yes, of course, this is mental illness speaking: but it is mental illness speaking with a voice that has a race and a gender.

One must feel a sense of aggrieved entitlement to pick up a gun and go on a rampage, yes. But that sense of aggrieved entitlement must also be grandiose if you are going to make them all pay.

<snip>

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
24. I posted an op ed piece about this a little while back
Thu Aug 27, 2015, 07:46 PM
Aug 2015

And it was not well received in GD. I will try to find it again.

Glassunion

(10,201 posts)
37. I'd agree that "random" instances are rare among black killing sprees.
Fri Aug 28, 2015, 11:30 AM
Aug 2015

I went through that list that was posted upthread. It would appear that the rate of instances is quite close to the demographics.

The rate of instances / % of Population
46 - White = 64.7% / 63.7%
10 - Black = 14% / 13.8%
6 - Asian = 8.4% / 4.1%
1 - Native American = 1.4% / .8%
4 - Latino = 5.6% / 16.3

What bugs me the most about the list is the majority of those found to have prior mental health illnesses, that and the majority of those who obtained their guns legally.

randys1

(16,286 posts)
38. Scott Walker says we need more mental health help so this doesnt happen, right after he SLASHED
Fri Aug 28, 2015, 01:49 PM
Aug 2015

funds for those departments in his state.

The real enemy is clear, folks.

And it sure as hell isnt some asshole who goes off half cocked and shoots a couple people, while that is terrible and disgusting, he is a symptom of what is going on, not the cause.

 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
39. Gang killings in major American cities often take out innocent lives -
Fri Aug 28, 2015, 04:45 PM
Aug 2015

whom I suppose you would call random.

Come on now.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
40. But the gang killings are NOT targeting those innocents ...
Fri Aug 28, 2015, 06:33 PM
Aug 2015

IOWs, I shoot at rival gang member, Crip McBlood, but miss and hit the 4 year old playing with her football ... is different from me, intentionally, shooting at everyone on the block, regardless of who they are. That's what I mean be random.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
41. i thought dc sniper was more about killing his wife and getting away with it by inventing a scenario
Sat Aug 29, 2015, 04:17 PM
Aug 2015

of across nation deaths and not all white?

a question. but that is what i read. am i totally wrong?

JustAnotherGen

(31,828 posts)
47. I remember that guy - one french fry short of a happy meal
Mon Aug 31, 2015, 03:09 PM
Aug 2015
Aaron Alexis, the man who carried out the massacre in the Washington Navy Yard last week, had a "delusional belief" that he was being controlled by electromagnetic waves and fully expected to be killed when he launched his attack, federal investigators said today.


http://abcnews.go.com/US/navy-yard-shooter-aaron-alexis-expected-killed/story?id=20373025


He must have been reading newsmax or the other site owned by the founders of DU. Cray craaaaaaaaay!

NutmegYankee

(16,199 posts)
48. He was actually sent back to Norfolk because of his craziness.
Mon Aug 31, 2015, 03:23 PM
Aug 2015

He was up at NUWC Newport and filed complaints that a family followed him from the airport to his hotel and was blasting him with ELF waves. The base medical had him sent home to Norfolk. The contractor he worked for then said "hey, he isn't making us money" and sent him to the Navy Yard.

This one is really personal. I worked in Building 197 at one time.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
49. Though it was not proven, the DC sniper may have been trying to kill his ex-wife.
Mon Sep 14, 2015, 01:12 AM
Sep 2015

He was killing (or using his young accomplice to do the killing) in what seemed like a 'random' fashion, in order to eventually get to her, so the prosecutor theorized. I think he might have been correct.

Born as John Allen Williams, Muhammad joined the Nation of Islam in 1987 and later changed his surname to Muhammad.[2] At Muhammad's trial, the prosecutor claimed that the rampage was part of a plot to kill his ex-wife and regain custody of his children, but the judge ruled that there was insufficient evidence to support this argument.[3] His trial for one of the murders (the murder of Dean Harold Meyers in Prince William County, Virginia) began in October 2003, and the following month he was found guilty of capital murder. Four months later he was sentenced to death. While awaiting execution in Virginia, in August 2005, he was extradited to Maryland to face some of the charges there, for which he was convicted of six counts of first-degree murder on May 30, 2006.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Allen_Muhammad

Kurska

(5,739 posts)
50. Serial Killer demographics are fairly consistent across races
Mon Sep 14, 2015, 03:36 AM
Sep 2015

You just hear about White ones more, because the Media has a fascination with pretty white female victims and serial killers generally strike within their own race.

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