From Alternet/Salon - "Black voters aren’t feeling the Bern"

[Number23]

'Black voters aren’t feeling the Bern: Sanders’ problem is bigger than #BlackLivesMatter'
http://www.salon.com/2015/09/13/black_voters_arent_feeling_the_bern_sanders_problem_is_bigger_than_blacklivesmatter_partner/

...According to the latest findings from Public Policy Polling, 65 percent of black voters support Clinton while only 14 percent back Sanders. For a man who is heralded as a civil rights veteran by his legion of supporters, that number is not impressive.

In more than a dozen interviews with political strategists, leading black journalists and activists, there is a common acknowledgement that most African-American voters don’t know who the senator is, and that his messaging to this critical voting base has been poorly executed. For many months, the Sanders campaign did little to make inroads with black voters, in person or online. Another problem observers point out is that there is an arrogant and insulting expectation among Sanders’ white liberal supporters that black people should vote for him simply because he is not Hillary Clinton. Others point to him “marching with Dr. King.” Then too, the senator has also bumbled primetime moments from which he has yet to fully recover.

...White admits he was actually a Sanders supporter and wanted him to be the candidate who could beat Hillary Clinton. However, he says he was so turned off by what he feels is Sanders’ dismissiveness and the social media attacks from his supporters that, “I’m at the point where I don’t even want to talk about him anymore.”

And this right here, is the article's money quote:

But if Sanders has been fighting for the civil rights of black people for decades, how come so few of them know about him?

What say you AA Group? I came across this yesterday while reading about Charles Blow's tweets about Sanders' event in South Carolina at an HBCU that according to Blow, had a predominantly white crowd. Blow also mentioned that the young crowd at Benedict were not feeling Sanders. At all. Though of course, there is endless discussion about this too as well.

[Agschmid]

1. The speech at Liberty has really frustrated me...

These people have hated me for just being who I am, are we sure we need to have outreach to them?

Social issues are important to me...

I'm frustrated and not really sure what I think right now.

[Number23]

5. "I'm frustrated and not really sure what I think right now."

Join the club.

And I know that you are a Sanders supporter which must make all of this even more weird.

His decision to campaign with Cornell has frustrated me as well to the point that I'm not sure what to make of him.

[Agschmid]

16. Yup.

Hear you.

[jeff47]

11. And ignoring them fixes that how? (nt)

[Agschmid]

15. I don't ignore them...

I actively campaign against their stances on most social issues.

Honesty the whole thing is just weird.

[jeff47]

21. There's basically two ways to fight them

1) Attack them directly, as you are. This is an attempt to weaken them by getting other people to disagree with them.

2) Reduce the number in their ranks, as Sanders (may have) done by speaking at LU. This shrinks the pool of people you have to fight in the future.

We don't have to only do strategy #1.

(Yes, this is massively oversimplified, but this is a message board and not a dissertation)

[Agschmid]

34. Yes it is an oversimplification but I do understand what you are saying...

[jeff47]

40. If you shrink the next generation of "foot soldiers"

you have fewer people to fight. There's fewer and fewer people to "take up the cause".

That helps in that you not only have fewer "neutral" people to convince, you also have fewer opponents trying to turn the "neutral" people against you.

The downside is it takes a long time to come to fruition.

[cer7711]

73. Bernie went there to say:

"Do you think it’s moral that 20 percent of the children in this country — the wealthiest country in the history of the world — are living in poverty? Do you think it is acceptable that 40 percent of African-American children are living in poverty? In my view, there is no justice, and morality suffers, when in our wealthy country, millions of children go to bed hungry. That is not morality. And in my view, that is not what America should be about."

Politics is about reaching out to more than your own most fervid, narrow constituency.

[Tarheel_Dem]

87. "Politics is about reaching out to more than your own most fervid, narrow constituency."

Do you know how awkward it is to hear that phrase coming from a BS supporter? "Reaching out" has gotten others vilified & castigated on this board. Some here still bring up Saddleback. So, forgive me if "reaching out" rings a little hollow from the BS crowd.

[cer7711]

100. You've lost me.

Saddleback? No clue; I don't follow every tempest-in-a-teapot that occurs on this board.

"Reaching out" strikes you as an "awkward" phrase coming from a Bernie Sanders supporter?!

Perhaps you need to re-examine your conception of just who and what a Bernie Sanders supporter is . . .

[Tarheel_Dem]

116. No need to "re-examine". I've been here for over a decade, so I know exactly who BS "supporters"...

are.

[cer7711]

118. I know this: I'm saddened and bitterly disappointed . . .

Last edited Fri Sep 25, 2015, 11:51 PM - Edit history (1)

. . . by all of the racial animosity and race-baiting on this board of late.

So you know who BS supporters are, eh? Might you be engaging in a little profiling of your own there?

Let's see how accurate you are, in my case. Did you guess:

White guy? Yep. Over 50? Yes again. Rich? HAH! That's a good one. Middle class? Not even. Try working class, self-educated, with less than $100 in his checking account.

Care to share a couple of details about yourself? I come here to dialogue, not engage in vituperative argument and character assassination. I sense a thoughtful, empathetic intelligence at work behind that moniker "Tarheel_Dem".

It all comes down to this: I'm a Bernie supporter because I believe he may be the last chance this country has to affect substantive, corrective change through the bully-pulpit of the presidency (Congress must do the legislating but he can be the goad) before social upheaval and revolutionary action becomes necessary.

Black lives matter. Of course they do, and I'll link arms with anyone in the street who shouts it along with me.

But after that, what? Do you really think HRC can or will do more for people of color in this country than Bernie?

[Tarheel_Dem]

123. The answer to your last question is yes. I know this because she hasn't spent the last 8 years....

trying to undercut PBO. Like it or not, the black community, to this day, continues to be the president's strongest base of support, and we know who has had his back. The fact that black people don't know who BS is, after his alleged civil rights activism & decades on the Hill, speaks volumes (and not in a good way).

Bernie Sanders: Let’s primary Obama
posted at 12:00 pm on July 24, 2011 by Jazz Shaw


President Obama is under attack these days from all manner of nasty conservatives who don’t care for his liberal, big spending ways. They seem to have found an unlikely ally, though, in the person of the only officially declared socialist in Congress… Bernie Sanders. (Emphasis in original.)

SANDERS: Brian, believe me, I wish I had the answer to your question. Let me just suggest this. I think there are millions of Americans who are deeply disappointed in the president; who believe that, with regard to Social Security and a number of other issues, he said one thing as a candidate and is doing something very much else as a president; who cannot believe how weak he has been, for whatever reason, in negotiating with Republicans and there’s deep disappointment. So my suggestion is, I think one of the reasons the president has been able to move so far to the right is that there is no primary opposition to him and I think it would do this country a good deal of service if people started thinking about candidates out there to begin contrasting what is a progressive agenda as opposed to what Obama is doing. So I would say to Ryan discouragement is not an option. I think it would be a good idea if President Obama faced some primary opposition

.




http://hotair.com/archives/2011/07/24/bernie-sanders-lets-primary-obama/

And the terms that BS' white supporters keep throwing around like "race nagging" & "race baiting" have lost all meaning at this point, much like BS himself. I could never think of you as an ally for that reason.

[cer7711]

125. Thank you for your reply.

I understand better, now, where you're coming from.

At the risk of igniting an endless round of back-&-forth re: President Obama, allow me to make two quick points:

(1) I voted for the man. I also, afterwards, criticized him in discussions on this board and elsewhere, for exactly the reasons BS enumerated in the excerpt you quoted. (I guess that's why I'm a Bernie supporter, eh?)

(2) I agree with you that the naked racism, outrageous rhetoric and unhinged attacks that the right-wing have unleashed against President Obama during his two terms in office have been sickening and more indicative of ODS (Obama derangement syndrome) than meaningful, substantive criticism. That doesn't mean, however, that all meaningful, substantive criticism of this president should be reflexively dismissed out-of-hand or chalked up to dissident white racist elements "undermining" President Obama. A vote does not constitute, in my view, a loyalty oath to anyone's cult of personality.

If I may, a couple of questions:

(1) Is there ever, in your world view or understanding of how an informed citizenry should behave in a functioning democracy, just cause or substantive reasons for a person to criticize this president? If so, what might they be? What is allowed, in your world view? I'm truly curious.

(2) Why did you feel it necessary to insert the phrase "like it or not" in your reply re: "the black community, to this day, continues to be the president's strongest base of support"? Why would you assume I dislike that fact?! For that matter, why do you insist on reducing all political questions of socio-economic justice to purely racial ones?

As for the fact that "black people don't know who BS is", well . . .

http://www.theroot.com/articles/politics/2014/11/where_did_all_the_black_voters_go_on_election_day.html

We need more people of color engaged in the political process.

Cheers!

PS. Clearly, we disagree on some fundamental points here. But I do respect and honor your feelings and opinions on what are, nowadays, some very hot-button issues and sentiments.

PPS. Do you know who Thom Hartmann is? Please hear his words and reasoning re: Bernie Sanders:

http://www.thomhartmann.com/blog/2015/07/bernie-sanders-could-be-next-fdr

PPPS. Thank you for the conversation.

[Tarheel_Dem]

135. FYI: I'll pass on your links to Thom Hartmann, I despise him even more than I do BS.

But thanks anyhoo.

[cer7711]

144. Ah! Well . . . :::hugs:::

We agree to disagree, then,

Be well, Tarheel_Dem!

Perhaps in some other, better world, we might have been friends and allies.

Let's try and bring that world into being, eh? Each in our own way, as best we know how.

The world deserves better than this . . .

:::salute:::

[thesquanderer]

75. To win elections, you need to appeal to more than your base

That doesn't mean that you have to like everyone the candidate speaks to, associates with, or is supported by. Doesn't matter whether they're right, left, black, or white.

[Gore1FL]

81. Someone had to de-brainwash these kids

It's not like he pandered.

[stevenleser]

93. I'm continuously amused and surprised by Sander's supporters defense on this here.

Because a lot of them I recognize as folks who have criticized me for trying to essentially do the same thing. Go on conservative radio and TV media and try to make the point to those listening and watching that they are backing the wrong folks.

Now because Bernie is doing it, it's suddenly a great thing to do.

I happen to agree with it and think it should be done. In the case of someone like Sanders, the only criticism he gets from me on this point is, he should have done a full outreach to African Americans, Latinos and LGBT before deciding to reach across the aisle.

Doing this while African Americans still aren't sure about him seems like misplaced priorities to me.

[MADem]

108. Yes--you have been VILIFIED here for going on Fauxsnooze and telling them to fuck themselves -- and

you've been vilified by many of the same people who are praising this "outreach!"

It's OK if you're not YOU, I guess...




I agree with your concern about the timing, too.

[Cha]

129. They invited President Obama and he didn't go.. and he's not afraid to go "into any Lion's Den"..

Social Issues are really important to me too, Agschmind.

It's the very fabric of our Country.. we've worked so long and have so much energy invested.

And, so many successes but still have such a long way to go.

[GitRDun]

2. This has been, and will be the problem for the Sanders campaign

You can see the phenomena right here on DU.

A Sanders supporter suggested I was deluded yesterday..that's right, deluded....for not getting behind a Hillary 7.3 post from manny "let me splain to you" goldstein.

I saw a white Sanders supporter in a post tell a black poster he didn't know what he was talking about when he said no one he knows wants anything to do with Cornell West.

I really do appreciate the excitement Sanders supporters have for their candidate...I think it's great. Bernie gave a great speech today.

He will go nowhere, however, unless the outreach gets better and the overconfidence is corrected.

[Number23]

8. Alot of his supporters have been trying to tell black people what to think, see and believe for

months now. This is why so many people from all over the Internet have condemned them and their tactics in no uncertain terms. And not just black liberals have condemned them. White liberals, multiracial liberals and liberal movements have done so as well.

Alot of his supporters are his greatest liability, which they must know judging by the number of nervously self-congratulating high fives they are always showering upon themselves. But as this article points out, the biggest issue is his apparently inability to connect with black voters and the bumbling slow start his campaign even took trying to do so. And it just doesn't make any sense.

What's important and interesting to me about this article is the number of people they interviewed to develop it. A dozen academics and journalists have been used to put forth this analysis. So the folks who have literally lost weight denying that this is an issue and pointing to his incredibly tiny pockets of black support while pushing aside the many times larger groups of people who don't know him or don't support him have even less of a leg to stand on than usual.

[MrScorpio]

82. Perfectly put nt

[Number23]

88. A similar response of mine has just been hidden in this very forum.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1187&pid=26746

I wish certain people would just trash this forum. I really do.

[Starry Messenger]

126. Gah.

[SusanCalvin]

140. And another 4-3, I see. nt

[MADem]

110. SPOT on!!!! nt

[scarletwoman]

12. Man, I would love to have a link to that post:

I saw a white Sanders supporter in a post tell a black poster he didn't know what he was talking about when he said no one he knows wants anything to do with Cornell West.

Is there any chance you could find it?

[Control-Z]

37. I read that earlier.

I'll see if I can find it.

[kwassa]

43. Several posters have said this to me, in a variety of ways.

They say it in different ways.

to paraphrase, several have said not all black people think alike, the black people on DU don't represent black people in general, there is one black person here that confirms this, here is a black organization representing 15 million people that supports West and Tavis Smiley (though when I run down the organization, it appears to be one guy and his hacked website making claims ...)

Here are a couple of the threads, not links to specific posts.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=590934

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=588739

[GitRDun]

49. It starts here.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=590958

[brush]

14. There's quite a bit of pushback by Sanders supporters in the Cornell West

threads.

Many, including myself have questioned why the Sanders campaign is using a well known Obama hater as a surrogate in his quest for Obama coalition votes.

IMO that seems counter intuitive. Like, why Cornell West of all people? No one else without West's baggage was available?

And many Sanders supporters are adamant in defending West, as if his long-standing trashing of the President and dislike by many in the black community means nothing.

[JustAnotherGen]

19. Because hating Obama

Can only be done by "real" black people.

We aren't really black unless we lock step with Corny! . We are just "playing at" it to them.

[brush]

29. It's weird to me

They seem to want to completely ignore the dislike of West in the black community yet want black votes.

No Dem candidate can win without the Obama coalition vote
(90% of black voters, 67% of Latino/a voters, 55% of women voters)

[noiretextatique]

45. irony: black people keep telling you that not all black people dislike West

and you keep insisting that WE do not exist. i find that more than ironic since the black clinton supporters here keep claiming sanders supporters are doing that...and more... to them. i am done with this shit. sanders will peel some black votes, but clinton will get the majority. and that will have nothing to do with random internet posters "turning off" supposedly open-minded voters (HA! what a JOKE that meme is). nor will it be because of the completely made-up bullshit about sanders not appealing to black people. black people will vote for clinton because of the belief she has the best chance of beating a republicon, like most voters.

[brush]

48. To each his own, but I'm willing to bet that way more AAs despise West

than are in his corner. He is a brilliant man who went way off the rails with his crude and vile trashing of Obama. With his huge vocabulary he chooses the most vile, disgusting, gutter-level terms imaginable to bash the first black president. Why?

I also keep asking why Cornell West, of the Sanders supporters? Are there no other prominent AA supporters of Sanders without West's baggage?

I get no answers to those questions.

[noiretextatique]

50. sanders up from 6% to 14% among likely black voters, since June

now it all makes perfect sense. i guess they don't give shit that cornel west introduced sanders either.

[brush]

54. Link please

Last edited Tue Sep 15, 2015, 12:38 AM - Edit history (1)

The time line seems a bit off. West was just introduced as a surrogate in the last few days.

Your post says Sanders' AA support is up a few percentage points since June.

What you suggest doesn't figure since West just joined the campaign in September?

[Tarheel_Dem]

89. Doesn't compute does it? n/t

[underthematrix]

64. So does Bernie appeal to black voters?

The only time I would have to think about Bernie is if he becomes the DEM nominee. Then it would simply be a matter of voting for him. Does he appeal to me? No. Do I want to keep my healthcare? my social security? my medicare? yes to all three. Really it's a no brainer.

I'm not a HRC supporter. But I would vote for her if she became the DEM nominee. It's just common sense. Bernie supporters are purist so they might have trouble switching it up.

The truth is I want BIDEN to be my #45. He's my guy. But he hasn't even said he's running.

The bottom line is the DELEGATE count. This is what HRC gets and I think what Bernie gets as well but they are going about it in different ways.

I'm trying to imagine a scenario where a DEM superdelegate goes for Bernie over HRC. I can't imagine it but it could happen. I just don't see it because the politics for that scenario seem almost insurmountable.

[stevenleser]

95. No one has said that "All black people dislike West". We say that black people overwhelmingly

are upset at West for his treatment of Obama.

Not just the treatment of Obama, but the reason for the treatment, which is that West (as was Smiley) was miffed at not getting preferential treatment and seating at the inauguration.

That's what it was about, and the vast majority of black people have not forgotten that.

Surely you must be aware of this.

[Cha]

133. Or as that poster said yesterday... "Black people buy into the fairy tale that is Pres Obama.."

paraphrasing here, Gen.

Thankfully there were plenty of comments calling her own fairy tale out.

[JustAnotherGen]

134. You nailed it

I find West's words repugnant -

So evidently according to that poster - I'm buying into a fairy tale.

[Cha]

138. West's words are "repugnant". Bernie evidently is fine with him attacking our President with

his vile venom.

[Number23]

25. "as if his long-standing trashing of the President and dislike by many in the black community means

nothing"

It probably doesn't. Not to them.

[demosincebirth]

30. Totally agree. West is going to be like and anchor around Bernie's neck

[Cha]

132. And, he asked for it.

[cantbeserious]

3. Riddle Me This - Why Would A Female Ex Republican Be Preferred Over Bonafide Civil Rights Activist

eom

[Agschmid]

4. Your premise is flawed...

Why is the "female" part important... Please explain.

What an odd post.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

6. Read the article.

It's not actually as lopsided as the title would suggest. There are actually people in it who suggest the problem might be in his style, for instance. That he simply wants to talk policy - he wants to be your President, not your friend, whereas other politicians 'connect' more personally because they're willing to act like a friend.

[Starry Messenger]

7. Are you talking about Elizabeth Warren?

Oops.

[Chitown Kev]

41. Who was a Republican even as Hillary Clinton was FLOTUS

All throughout the Reagan Administration, Warren was Republican.

[Starry Messenger]

51. I like her positions now, but I still find that shocking.

The Reagan years turned me into a raving anti-establishment punk. He defended apartheid and made popular the myth of the welfare queen. He thought AIDS was an answer to his prayers. He fired all the PATCO workers. And even that wasn't enough to bring Warren in from the cold during the Clinton years?

[Chitown Kev]

56. That's one of the reasons that if someone was and is needed to run to Hillary's left

I prefer Bernie to Elizabeth Warren, hands down.

We can quibble here and there about the significance of Sanders' civil rights work but we can't quibble about the fact that he did that work.

[Number23]

59. 100% agree

We can quibble here and there about the significance of Sanders' civil rights work but we can't quibble about the fact that he did that work.

[Starry Messenger]

85. And I think for good reasons, the party didn't want to run two women at the same time.

So, yes.

[6chars]

124. Warren is the anti-Reagan

He was a democrat who became the ultimate republican.

[Number23]

10. Let me guess... Sanders supporter??

[Agschmid]

18. Yeah...

Known for "No Citizen Shall Settle for the Less Of Two Corporate Evils"

Which is a fine thing to say... The "women" thing is new

[Tarheel_Dem]

91. Probably for the same reason Elizabeth Warren was preferred at one time. HRC was 17. EW was.....

damn near 50 when she gave up her Republican cred. Hillary couldn't even vote at 17. Nobody gives a shit about BS' "Civil Rights Activism" 50 years ago, just as most don't care what Hillary was doing when she was teenager.

[MADem]

112. Liz Warren isn't running. nt

[zappaman]

9. I got 5 bucks says this gets alerted on.

Any takers?

[Number23]

13. It if is, then this place is even more gone than we imagined.

[JustAnotherGen]

22. Oh it will be!

Trust me - it will be. They will probably accuse you of being sexist when this thread has nothing to do with gender!

[Number23]

67. Hey everything we type in here is already racist! Why not add in some other shit in for flavor??!

[Cha]

130. I ain't takin' that bet.

[jeff47]

17. Uh....He still polls at around 40-50% "don't know him at all".

To claim "Black voters" have completely made up their mind at this point ignores that rather important bit of polling.

[Number23]

20. Um..I believe that is the first is not one of the first two points that the article even ATTEMPTS to

raise.

I even highlighted it in my money quote.

[jeff47]

23. Yes. That's my point. By ignoring that half of the relevant voters

say they are "not at all familiar" with Sanders, you can't really draw conclusions about who they will end up supporting when they vote. Because with that many "not at all familiar", the statistics in your "money quote" are going to drastically change.

That doesn't mean they will flock to Sanders - they could turn even further away. But leaving that out of the article is pretty bad statistical analysis. They are drawing a firm conclusion when they know there is no basis to make that conclusion "firm".

[Number23]

24. Look, stop pretending that point wasn't raised and raised extremely clearly.

The gist of the article is that black folks are not "feeling the bern" either because too many don't know him or are supporting others.

No one is pretending that's not in there but you.

[jeff47]

28. It was raised in two paragraphs, which are quotes from Sanders supporters

Yet the rest of the article ignores the "not familiar" statistic, and ignores it in all the analysis.

We just can't draw anything like a firm conclusion until either that "not familiar" goes down, or it gets so close to the election that there is no longer time to change it. After all, "not familiar" was a problem for Obama for a long time in 2008. And it was a benefit for Romney in 2012 - the more people got to know Romney, the less they liked him.

[Number23]

32. It does NOT ignore it. If anyone is ignoring anything it is you with your attempts to minimize

the findings of this piece.

If you don't like or understand this article, fine. I don't think anyone cares. But please stop pretending that it does not clearly state on at least several different occasions that many, many black people have no idea who Sanders is despite his 25 years in Congress and his centuries old support of black causes, as endlessly espoused by many of his supporters.

[jeff47]

35. Could you point to where they consider it in their analysis?

And not as a quote from a Sanders supporter responding to their analysis?

The thrust of the article is Sanders can't connect with black voters. That it's utterly impossible to move the poll numbers much.

Coming to that conclusion requires "not familiar" to either be low, or no time to move it.

Again, it could hurt Sanders - becoming more familiar could cause black voters to hate him.

[Number23]

38. How about this...Why don't you take off your fighting gloves with me and the universe and actually

READ THE ARTICLE. Sound good?

Then maybe you can see the MULTIPLE TIMES it is mentioned that Sanders is unknown in the AA community.

[jeff47]

46. And maybe you could too, and realize I'm asking about the conclusion they draw

and not the few literal sentences in the article that they immediately dismiss?

[Tarheel_Dem]

92. What does it say about BS that so many AA's don't know him & his alledged "Civil Rights Activist"...

credentials? He's been on Capitol Hill for decades now. I don't think his relative obscurity, after all that time, is a selling point.

[Number23]

96. That's the whole point of this entire discussion. I don't understand why some are working so hard

to be confused that the focus of the article is saying that many blacks don't know him. Which after 25 years in Congress as you said, opens up an entirely DIFFERENT can of worms.

[DCBob]

26. FWIW... I saw my first Bernie bumper sticker today.

White guy in a BMW.

[Number23]

27. I sent a note about his visit to Atlanta to my family, friends, sorors and former workmates

Most had no idea he was coming or had no interest whatsoever.

The sad thing, I'd love to hear him speak live. I know I'd agree with much of what he says.

[Agschmid]

31. I'm going to see him, and all the other candidates speak on Saturday.

Should be interesting to be able to compare them like that.

[Number23]

33. Would you mind giving a report? Contrary to the ravings of people that don't post in this forum

or more accurately -- SHOULDN'T post in this forum -- no one candidate is supported here. Most of us are un-committed.

I'd love to get your feedback from your event this weekend. If you want to.

[Agschmid]

36. Yes, its a 8-hour event and it looks like a WHOLE LOT of people will be there.

I'll try to let you know how I feel about each of them after. I am most excited to see O'Malley to be honest, he is the only one I haven't met.

http://nhdp.org/convention/

[sheshe2]

72. Thanks Agschmid.

I look forward to your findings.

[lunasun]

78. Please post if you can

[lovemydog]

122. Thanks.

I look forward to hearing your description.

Hopefully we'll get some good video feeds too.

Have a great time at the convention.

[Number23]

142. Echoing the requests for your to post your thoughts. Thanks!

[tishaLA]

39. I was feeling more positive about him today

when he sad, in response to a question at Liberty University about American racism, that the US was founded on "racist principles." Of course I know it's demonstrably true, but I also know he's going to get a lot of blowback because of it.

He then went on to discuss the election of PBO as indicative of some kind of progress, an opinion that's very problematic, and then talked about racism in criminal justice. These are all good things. I'd like for him to integrate a critique of racial justice into his overall message, but that's hoping for too much.

[Number23]

42. Considering the number of times he's said Obama should face a primary opponent

that's just weird to me that he's now saying Obama's win was any sort of progress, racial or otherwise. That is entirely inconsistent with what he's said in the past.

I'd like for him to integrate a critique of racial justice into his overall message, but that's hoping for too much.

I think so too. He seems to be very focused on the economic aspect and very unable (or unwilling) to pivot from that.

[Tarheel_Dem]

94. He's hoping no one remembers him saying that. The Obama coalition should be reminded early & often.

[Cha]

131. Here's Obama VS Sanders on the "Obama Coalition"..

[Tarheel_Dem]

136. So, BS is a big old liar? Who knew? That one clip brings everything into clear focus. Thanks.

[Cha]

139. Yep, BS is out there lying about President Obama. Unreal. It's documented and thankfully the

O TEAM was thoughtful enough to put this Vid together for us.

[Chitown Kev]

44. Well...

I don't think that Sanders ever expected that he would get into the presidential race or that he would catch on in the way that he has...I don't think anyone is as surprised by all of this as Bernie Sanders himself.

I think enough of Sanders that he knows the work that needs to be done within communities of color and if he had planned on getting in the race all along, he would have "prepped the ground" somewhat.

Someone was needed in the primaries to run to the left of Clinton.

Warren said no, and I don't believe that anyone really liked O'Malley, so Bernie gave it a shot.

and now the shit done got real.

My $.02.

[Number23]

57. So you still think that Sanders is in it for reasons other to win? That he's making some sort of

point and not really trying to win?? I said in another post to someone that something seems to be holding him back from really resonating with black folks.

I think enough of Sanders that he knows the work that needs to be done within communities of color and if he had planned on getting in the race all along, he would have "prepped the ground" somewhat.

That could be it.

[Chitown Kev]

98. Most of Sanders' campaign staff

worked for ReadyForWarren...meaning Elizabeth Warren, of course.

It get that this gets me dangerously close to the Glen Ford sheepdogging theory of Bernie Sanders....oh, lookie here, BAR is still up to the sheepdogging theory...this is JUICY...I'm tellin' ya, these nice white progressives don't want the black loony left...

Why is Cornel West Sheep-Dogging for the Democrats – Once Again?

Cornel West has thrown his support to Bernie Sanders, the nominal socialist – but unquestionable Democrat – running for president. Dr. West says Sanders “tells the truth about Wall Street, white supremacy, empire, patriarchy and homophobia.” Really? The author says West has some explaining to do. “Brother West, you can’t quote King on his stance against militarism and support a candidate that is unable to utter a word against U.S. militarism.”

Rosa Clemente, who ran for Vice President with Cynthia McKinney in 2008, reminds us that Cornel West and many other notable left activists and intellectuals who have given lip-service to the need for an independent left politics in the U.S., dutifully lined-up to give their support to Barack Obama. For many of these leftists, the rationale offered to support the Democrat candidate wasn’t even about the traditional “lesser of two evils,” but a strange belief that somehow this individual, selected and pushed by powerful forces within the liberal Democrat establishment and some defectors from the Clinton DLC wing of the party, represented a significant break with the neoliberal agenda that both parties had committed themselves to since the late 70s.
************************************************************************************
And brother West, you can’t quote King on his stance against militarism and support a candidate that is unable to utter a word against U.S. militarism. You can’t condemn Obama as the “drone president” and give moral cover to a candidate that confesses that he would continue that immoral policy.

You can’t proclaim the value of Black lives and support a candidate that is just as willing as the other imperialist candidates to shed non-European blood from Yemen, Gaza and Syria to the 651 military operations carried out by the U.S. military in Africa last year, in the interests of maintaining Pan-European colonial/capitalist hegemony.

“Every sheepdog candidate surrenders the shreds of his credibility to the Democratic nominee in time for the November election. This is how the Bernie Sanders show ends…”

Brother West, I raise these questions as someone who defended you when the Obama Negroes were calling for your head. You should consider that as black people in the U.S. build a militant, independent resistance movement for liberation and socialism for themselves and the people of the world, you risk your credibility in the “chocolate” cities of the U.S. and the non-white spaces of the world by once again giving your support to a Democrat Party candidate that is committed to upholding the interests of empire.

Now that's just shade! Pooor Cornel West can't win over the black (sometimes) loony left...a loony left that can't STAND Bernie Sanders

I just saw this piece of shde tonight...yes, we do have diverse opinions in the black community, nice white progressives!

Anywho, Sanders might now believe that he can pull this out

[Number23]

111. Holy Christ on a cracker... BAR is MAD at Cornell for endorsing Bernie Sanders???!!!

BAR, the "publication" for every "leftie" that hates Obama and wants to use a black face to slam him in ways that they can't???

They are pissed off at Bernie Sanders AND Corny??! Holy moley....

Sheepdogging??! Good grief, I never knew about any of this...

And brother West, you can’t quote King on his stance against militarism and support a candidate that is unable to utter a word against U.S. militarism. You can’t condemn Obama as the “drone president” and give moral cover to a candidate that confesses that he would continue that immoral policy.

That's it. I'm dead. You just killed me.

[Chitown Kev]

117. Number 23, I LOVES IT when nice white progressive Bernie Sanders supporters

try to pull BAR out on me in an attempt to criticize Obama.

Oh, the Bernie Sanders "sheepdogging" post was to die for and makes white progressives LIVID...I wish they would pull some stuff like that on me.

[JustAnotherGen]

149. I'm there with you

Isn't the BAR the gold standard of black thought and reason in some circles on our side of the aisle?

[Number23]

151. I knew that the socialists didn't like Sanders but this is a whole 'nother kettle of fish right here

Like you said, BAR is the gold standard for a particular type of person. And they love to throw this publication in the faces of black people who support Obama. Which goes to say, this publication gets thrown in ALOT of black people's faces.

So this is just curioser and curioser.

[Chitown Kev]

103. OK, getting back to your question

(I do love posting BAR stuff on occasion just so nice white progressives can leave me the fuck alone with "what Glen Ford and Bruce Dixon thinks...but I digress)

I think that Sanders got into it to push Hillary to the left. It is possible that Martin O'Malley was going to fill this role but people determined that O'Malley didn't have "it" and that Bernie Sanders does have "it" (an assessment that I would agree with).

I don't think that sanders got into it to win, but he may believe that he can win now.

(IMO, a Sanders-type politician can't win in 2016 but could win in 2020).

[PeaceNikki]

146. I do. I think he's in it in an attempt to move Clinton left.

Just over a year ago, at Fighting Bob Fest in Wisconsin, he said he wanted to get into the Democratic race to bring the conversation left. He said he would definitely NOT run 3rd party. I don't know if he specifically said that he didn't expect to win, but there was a definite implication.

[Number23]

147. I wonder if that's changed now. If he genuinely believes that he can win now???

[PeaceNikki]

148. Only he and those closest to him know that for sure. I imagine good crowds are invigorating.

And his supporters are among the most dedicated I've seen, as we all know, even going full circle to a point of weakness often.

I definitely think the support was greater than he initially expected and, like you said, maybe he didn't have all of his ducks in line on all of the issues the way he should have out of the gate as a result. Like many here, I like Bernie and his message. But his supporters are really turning me away from wanting to rally behind him. I won't worship him like a hero. The only politician I would give that kind of loyalty to is Russ Feingold. I like Sanders, I like Clinton and I like O'Mally. But around here in called a Third Way Sanders hater for any criticism of him at all. Like the way he handled BLM. I think he fucked that up royally.

Meh. The candidate will likely be chosen well before the Wisconsin primary again so who I support in it probably won't matter much anyway. In any case, I will support our nominee with great vigor. Nothing will make me sit out our go third party in 2016 or ever, I think. SCOTUS is far too important for that irresponsible and selfish act.

[Number23]

150. I could have typed your post myself it aligns so much with how I feel as well

Everything except the bit about having alot of loyalty for Feingold (who I don't know that much about).

But everything else, I agree with 100%.

Like many here, I like Bernie and his message. But his supporters are really turning me away from wanting to rally behind him. I won't worship him like a hero. The only politician I would give that kind of loyalty to is Russ Feingold. I like Sanders, I like Clinton and I like O'Mally. But around here in called a Third Way Sanders hater for any criticism of him at all. Like the way he handled BLM. I think he fucked that up royally.

I'll vote for whoever the party puts forth too. I don't have a problem with any of the candidates running. But not one of them has energized me in the way that Obama did. And I'd probably be happy to support Sanders more than I am if his supporters stopped being so fucking unrealistic about what's he's done in the past and what that could mean for what he's going to do in the future.

[Exultant Democracy]

47. The only really relevant number in this is how Black voters haven't heard of him

Like most americans black americans are just not that into the campaign season this far out. In general the longer voters look at Hillary the less they like her, she is the lead balloon of national politics.

Once the Afam community actually tunes into this race chances are a lot of the same black people who decided not to vote for Hillary last time will probably not vote for her again.

[noiretextatique]

53. you missed the relevant number: Sanders has gained among Black voters

well, likely black voters. from 6% to 14% since June. so...he is actually doing precisely the opposite of what this article claims.

[Number23]

55. We'll add your analysis to the ones from the academics, authors and journalists in this OP

[sheshe2]

79. I read this someplace here.

I don't remember who said it.

They stated that if Bernie has been fighting so hard for your civil rights for 50 years, then why does no one know who he is? I think that is a great question. Supporters keep saying there is no name recognition at the very same time they say he has been fighting for you his entire life.

I am a tad confused here, which is it?

[Number23]

113. I know. It doesn't make even the tiniest shred of common sense.

Supporters keep saying there is no name recognition at the very same time they say he has been fighting for you his entire life.

which is it?

Exactly.

[sheshe2]

115. Yup.

Hugs.

Nite.

[Exultant Democracy]

120. Your version of common sense is directly opposed to logic apparently

To think that fighting for civil rights and gaining fame and name recognition go together is not only illogical it is also very insulting to the vast majority of brave people who stood up with Dr. King a generation ago to make a fundamental shift in America.

[Number23]

141. And you sound so incredibly angry. I really don't know why.

To think that fighting for civil rights and gaining fame and name recognition go together is not only illogical it is also very insulting to the vast majority of brave people who stood up with Dr. King a generation ago to make a fundamental shift in America.

Black folks tend to know who is fighting for us. Especially if someone has been doing it for 40 years the way that Sanders supporters keep saying.

Even if no one else knows or cares, we do. This ain't got nothing do with being famous. This is about being KNOWN in the communities that you are purporting to have fought so hard for. And I think you know that. Which is why you seem so inexplicably angry.

[Exultant Democracy]

119. Sounds like a false dichotomy that could only makes sense to someone grasping as straws

There are plenty of people that have been fighting hard for civil rights for 50 years with little to no recognition, pretending one assumes the other is just plain nonsense.

[noiretextatique]

52. per the article, Sanders gained 8 points among likely black voters since June

among black voters...from 6% to 14%. how on earth do you explain the gain, if he doesn't appeal to black voters, etc., etc., etc.?

[Number23]

58. From going to beyond horrible to not quite almost as beyond horrible, and that's good enough huh?

[noiretextatique]

60. can you post on this subject with hyperbole?

really? clearly...not all african-americans share your view.

[Number23]

61. WITH hyperbole? Most definitely.

But this thread is taking an analytical, nuanced look at Sanders support in the black community. And I would say that right now, the view of many of the black posters in this forum is the one that the vast majority of black people actually share and not yours.

[noiretextatique]

62. great...thanks

[Number23]

63. I did an edit. If you're interested

[Exultant Democracy]

121. Doubling his numbers with the name recognition he has is rather amazing

With the voters he is adding and the voters Hillary is shedding all things being equal if this trend holds much longer they will be looking at polls with support levels around 25%-35% of the black vote each by the end of the year.

[Number23]

143. The lack of name recognition he has despite his decades in Congress is what's amazing

[Tarheel_Dem]

145. "The lack of name recognition he has despite his decades in Congress is what's amazing"

That's what's baffling to me. He has to introduce himself after decades on Capitol Hill? WTF?

[lovemydog]

77. I hear you, and it's a good point.

He's gaining popularity with black voters. He will probably make further gains. Whether it's enough to win him significant primaries, we won't know until they take place. It's a remarkable campaign.

[Warpy]

65. Some are, some aren't.

I find it a little insulting, that idea that any demographic group is going to march in lock step, whether it's black folks, women, Hispanics, or anyone else.

Stupid stories like this one don't help anybody.

[Number23]

69. This is an ANALYSIS. It has nothing to do with lockstep. It is a current analysis of where a large

block of demographic voters feel about a candidate and how he has addressed their issues.

If you think that's stupid, then there are lots of other analysis here that you can read about. I wonder if you think all of them are stupid or just this one.

[lovemydog]

80. Agree. It's not stupid at all.

If the elections were held tomorrow he would lose most every state to Clinton.

But he is making some gains. The real question to me is whether he can make much more, enough to win the nomination and if so, how. He & his campaign have their work cut out for them.

P.S. You're one of the smartest posters at DU!!!

[Number23]

90. "P.S. You're one of the smartest posters at DU!!!"

I thank you very much!

And up against such STIFF competition too!!

[lovemydog]

101. Reminds me of a joke.

Winning an argument on a message board is like winning a medal at the special olympics. Sure you won, but consider the competition.

I find you really smart & funny & cool regardless of the minimal competition here.

[Number23]

106. The Special Olympics holds a place near and dear to my heart

And I think you're pretty cool too.

[libodem]

66. If Cornel West isn't a sign

I don't know what to tell you. Damn.

[Number23]

70. Preach.

[libodem]

76. No Doubt

[Cha]

127. +1111111!

Thank you, libodem.

[4139]

68. An outsiders view: Bernie from VERMONT???! ....

.... It kinda sounds like the Jamacian Bobsled Team... Too weird to be true. Vermont????

[SusanCalvin]

71. All I can say with regard to some Bernie supporters is

I don't understand the not listening. I just don't.

[Number23]

74. Neither do I, Susan.

[lovemydog]

83. I've wondered about that myself too.

The kindest conclusion I can reach is that the ones who aren't listening are on cell phones, jacked up on double espressos. They never read more than a headline of an original post before spouting off their jibber jabber.

[MrScorpio]

84. That and the knee-jerk reactions nt

[JI7]

86. i think some white people think Hillary lost Black Support in 2008 because they grew to hate her

that they were voting against her. when the truth is that it was about love for another candidate which turned black voters from her onto him. but they can't accept that black people love Obama .

black voters still had a positive view of her. and yes most know about the ugliness of that campaign . but they also know what happened after the campaign was over and before that. the clinton's continue their relationship with the different communities even when there is no election . they don't just come up when they need something from them during election time. this is true with all minority groups and why she is popular among them. remember that hispanics stuck with her in 2008 . she is very popular among gays , especially gay men.

so now these people who think black voters voted for obama because they hated hillary can't see why they are supporting hillary over sanders . and their entire strategy to get black voters seems to be to convince them that hillary hates them . the clintons hate them and made everything worse for them.

as for as crime goes. this was the 90s. white democrats in places like new york supported republican thugs like giuliani . it's fucking stupid to claim it was all the clintons and they alone could have changed things. much of their strategy was to get support from racist whites(including democrats) in order to win the election. remember what brought Dukakis down in 1988 was being soft on crime.and Sanders himself supported the crime bill.

yes, the reality of the whole thing is fucked up. but it's a cultural issue . the same goes for those who demand why Obama hasn't done anything to stop innocent blacks from being attacked by racist cops. do they really think Obama could easily fix this problem but doesn't want to ? these people have no idea how much of a problem racism is in this country.

if you are a minority you have an idea of how you are percieved and how during election time you need certain types to win.

i think SAnders himself is just fine and i plan to vote for him. there are criticisms in how he is reaching out to people. but i do think he is the type that listens to people. being in vermont he didn't have many minority constituents who would tell them the issues that concern them. but now that he is campaigning across the country he is meeting different people and seeing this.

i also think some of his so called supporters are angry with minorities for making him discuss these social issues. some of these people seem to feel more close to the people who are supporting trump and rand paul and looking for some unity and common cause with them in order to get the so called revolution.

but minorites are bringing Sanders back to where the democratic party is today. a party which many of these people are negative towards.

[Number23]

97. That is an incredibly interesting point.

so now these people who think black voters voted for obama because they hated hillary can't see why they are supporting hillary over sanders . and their entire strategy to get black voters seems to be to convince them that hillary hates them . the clintons hate them and made everything worse for them.

I know there are probably tons of enthusiastic black Hillary supporters, but most of the black people I know are pretty "meh" about her. But you're right, I don't know any black people that openly hate her. And that's even once you include the idiotic stuff she said during her 2008 campaign.

Glad to see your support for Sanders is still in tact! And I'm also really glad that your support is still in tact while still being able to see and acknowledge the Grand Canyon-sized weaknesses in his campaign. Acknowledging his many weaknesses doesn't make Sanders a bad person or even a bad candidate. But he is someone who has ALOT of work to do.

minorites are bringing Sanders back to where the democratic party is today

Now that's one HELL of a way to look at things.

[gwheezie]

105. Most of my friends moved from HRC to BHO

During the 08 primary. Obama had to win them to his side. I had to get to know him better, so did the rest of us. We still like HRC. My younger relatives like Bernie but my friends are democrats and have little interest in Bernie. He's just not getting to them.

[Chitown Kev]

109. Let's add that

Hillary's campaign manager when she said the ugly racist stuff was a black woman, Maggie Williams.

But that did not and does not negate the decades of networks that the Clintons built up in the black community nor does it negate the fact that Hillary went to work for Obama nor does it negate that Bill Clinton campaigned for Obama's reelection with enthusiasm while Sanders wanted Obama primaried.

[lovemydog]

102. Great points JI7!

I've been thinking more and more lately that all the arguments on DU about all this stuff. Frankly I think it boils down more to frustrations that existed long before Sanders entered the race and will exist long after this race is done.

I do hope Sanders and his campaign listen and keep reaching out and keep adding more diversity to their staffs. I hope the same for the O'Malley and Clinton campaigns too.

Regardless of whether Sanders wins the nomination, I truly hope we build a very strong grass roots movement that reflects a more leftist perspective, to move our country on a forward path.

[MrScorpio]

137. I totally agree

Excellent points.

[uponit7771]

152. " they don't just come up when they need something from them during election time" Amen and Amen

[MADem]

104. I think it's the "you people" thing. You know, "You people don't understand what I'm saying, here."

He dismisses the social justice issues, and he continues to insist that a rising economic tide will lift all boats.

An economic rising tide will not change "Last Hired."

A receding tide won't change "First Fired" either.

I mean, come on, we KNOW this. He doesn't seem to get it, though.

I don't think he means ill, I think it's just a big fat bright and white blind spot with him. I think he actually believes that institutional racism can be solved with an improved, Kumbayah economy.

His AA support seems to come from kids who like the Robin Hood message--it sounds great, but there's no way those rich bastards are going to hand over "their" money without a lot of hell to pay, and it will take YEARS to roll back some of the tax give aways to the wealthy, even with the help and support of Congress (which Sanders does not have).

However, those same kids are less likely than their parents and grandparents, who remember how it was (and how it still IS in some communities) to stand in line, sometimes for hours, to exercise their franchise. It only counts if you show up at the polls.


"I can't hang anymore, this is TAKING too LONG--my cellphone battery is dying....gotta bounce."

I think his support is thin and soft in the community, to be blunt. Maybe he'll change that--I can't see how dragging Cornel behind him will do that, though. And what happens when Cornel gets left behind, or isn't given a large enough role to suit himself? We saw how he turned on "Dear Brother Barack." And all that took was a miscommunication over inauguration tickets that was ENTIRELY Cornel's fault!


And as for the "I marched with MLK" thing, well, support for the community isn't like "Community Service." It's an ongoing thing, not something you do once and demand that The Black Leader in Authority sign your completion sheet to prove you did it. "Hey, I did my thirty hours--I got my ticket punched! I got my framed certificate!!!!! I'm outta here!"

[Number23]

107. If Cornell does turn on him, PLEASE forget to tell me about it!

Because I can only imagine how ugly that would get.

And what happens when Cornel gets left behind, or isn't given a large enough role to suit himself? We saw how he turned on "Dear Brother Barack." And all that took was a miscommunication over inauguration tickets that was ENTIRELY Cornel's fault!

[lunamagica]

114. "But if Sanders has been fighting for the civil rights of black people for decades, how come

so few of them know about him?"

Wow, just wow... Number23, that's brilliant, and it says it all...

[Cha]

128. "But if Sanders has been fighting for the civil rights of black people for decades, how come so few

of them know about him?"

Outstanding question, 23. He can say anything but that doesn't mean it's true.

[uponit7771]

153. That video shows my biggest problem with Sanders mindset about government; they're either ignorant

... on how America's government works and the ramifications of a only twice in US history gerrymandered congress or they're being assholes.

But Sanders makes some shit up about Obama leaving the post of a revolution leader and expects the president to be the leader of a cause while running the country.

I never saw Sanders lead 12neasd9fhj8rh million people on marches for single payer or wall street reform...

It was sit back and watch Obama roll that bolder uphill and when he wasn't rolling it fast enough or rolling it to the correct side of the hill Sanders boo'd



Not feeling the Bern, not hearing how Sanders is going to deal with gerrymandered GOP congress or persuade most people to vote for a not as well funded socialist


In the end I feel some of his supporters will just blame black folks if Sanders has to step aside

[Number23]

154. "In the end I feel some of his supporters will just blame black folks if Sanders has to step aside"

Some of them are PRE-EMPTIVELY blaming us already.

Talking about black people have "created a wedge" between progressives of all colors and it has nothing to do with the slew of white Sanders supporters that have been chasing after and harassing black people on DU, on Twitter, at Netroots Nation, and at Dem gatherings. Their behavior caused Occupy, Thom Hartmann, Van Jones, and an endless list of white progressives and Sanders supporters to denounce them, but it's US that have created the problem.