"I do have a very clear memory of the day when I first learned I was black."

[ZenLefty]

From Ice-T's new memoir:

As hazy as a lot of my childhood is to me, I do have a very clear memory of the day when I first learned I was black. Before that, I guess, I never really knew I was black. Everybody figures out there’s something called “race” at some point in their life, and for me it happened when I was about seven years old.

At the time, I was going to Brayton Elementary School in Summit, and I used to have a white friend named Alex. He was one of my closest friends in school. Alex and me were walking over to his house one day after school and we bumped into this other kid from our class named Kenneth—he was one of the few other black kids who went to Brayton with me. Soon as we ran into Kenneth, Alex told him, “Kenneth, you can’t come over.” Kenneth looked pretty bummed out but he just walked on, head down, kicking the curb the way little kids do. Then we ran into some more kids from our class and Alex had no problem inviting them to his house to play. We walked along the sidewalk in silence and the question just popped into my head.

“I thought you told Kenneth you couldn’t have any more friends over?” I asked.

“Kenneth?” Alex laughed. “Oh, Kenneth—he’s a darkie.”

...

It was confusing as hell. When I got home, I told my mother about it. She looked at me with this half smile.

“Honey, people are stupid.”

That was her line. It’s one of the things I recall her saying to me a lot. People are stupid. She didn’t break that down for me, but I understood her to mean: You can’t necessarily change the ignorant way people think—but you can damn sure control the way it affects you personally. And then you keep it moving.

http://www.npr.org/books/titles/137892828/ice-a-memoir-of-gangster-life-and-redemption-from-south-central-to-hollywood

That really stood out to me. As a white* guy, I never had a conscious realization of my race. Where I grew up, you were either Italian or Not Italian. And either way, it wasn't much of a big deal. No special rules, we just ate better food than the Not Italians.

I'm guessing this means the day he realized he was different, and could be treated differently because of the color of his skin. I do wonder if other black DUers had a similar experience. I'm guessing it would predicate on how much racism or prejudice one was exposed to, and maybe different for young or old. I do think this is one of those things that white people can never experience.



* Full disclosure: it's possible that I'm the reincarnation of Tupac, but that's a long story.

[msongs]

1. "...we just ate better food than the Not Italians." hmmm, no consicous realizations lol nt

[ZenLefty]

17. Yeah, I'm busted.

Some of the Not Italians made really good baklava, but they just couldn't compete with our homemade lasagna.

[JustAnotherGen]

2. I do

I was five. We had just finished eating the restaurant within the at that time Hilton Hotel on Jefferson Road in Rochester NY. They were friends with the owner and we had dinner with he and his family. After dinner as we were walking out he grabbed the bowl of mints off the counter and told me to grab some. I did - and he put the bowl down and this older white couple comes up and the woman - I'll never forget this . . .

She has this look of shock on her face and says, "You expect me to eat that after a black child touched it!?" That was the first. North East United States

A few months later was my second - we got turned down service at a Dairy Queen (well my mom did with us and our cousins) in Northern Alabama.

But the thing is - I'm kind of like Paul Mooney. I'm just going to say it. I was a cute kid - I was a smart kid. I knew both. Neither incident ruined my self-esteem . . . for years I used the R-Word to describe people like that. It's not appropriate anymore so now I just say the Damaged Ones. The Damaged Ones could be white, black, Asian, Latvian, Gentiles, etc. etc.

[Number23]

4. Five??! Wow

See, it was much later for me but that was because I grew up in an environment where EVERYONE was black. My teachers, my doctors, hell even my mayors were black.

I would say I was probably much older, maybe even 11 before it really dawned on me. We listened to black music and watched as much black tv as possible so even the media and the lack of black folks in media didn't really penetrate. But I went to Six Flags when I was about 10 or 11. That was pretty much the only time I even SAW white kids my own age when I was growing up.

I was standing in line for a ride and my hand accidentally touched a white boy's hand and he acted as though my hand actually SINGED his. I remember looking at him like, "just what in hell is your problem?" and then it dawned on me. There was no going back after that.

[nofurylike]

8. fascinating, whole other take on that! thank you for that, Number23!! nt

[JustAnotherGen]

27. Keep in mind

my mother is caucasian . . . so I asked questions at a VERY young age. As well, I spent my years prior to that time in West Germany - mostly caucasian but the base at that time was very diverse. I think there was a 'we are all army green' mentality too.

Then you come to the United States and it's like "Wow!" Whole new world - whole new set of rules.

[Number23]

28. Mmmm hmmm

Then you come to the United States and it's like "Wow!" Whole new world - whole new set of rules.

For this reason, I am actually kind of dreading when we come back to the States. Because God help anyone who gives either of my children a hard time about their racial heritage (as if they have any control over it anyway).

[nofurylike]

7. "the Damaged Ones" yes! thank you so much for posting that, JustAnotherGen! nt

[Number23]

3. Lovely thread. Thanks for this

[mzteris]

5. In my younger son's 2 yo preschool class

There were two "Brads" - my son - black, and the other Brad - white.

The other children started calling them "Black Brad" and "White Brad" to differentiate between them. The preschool teacher intervened as soon as she realized and started using their first and middle names all the time.

It was pretty funny when months later, the other kid and his mom went somewhere and they asked for his name. She said, "Brad Lastname". He quickly corrected her, "That's not my name, it's Brad middlename!" lol...


about 2 yrs later, I took my son to a children's sign language class (my older son was homeschooled and it seemed like a good extra curricular) - - - they had to make "sign nicknames for themselves".... My older chose a "C" while using the sign of a dragon. Brad used a "B" and drew the line across his forehead that meant "black" - so he was "Black Brad".... of course he thought it was a very cool pirate name! HA!


My problem now is that my son - now 13 - is realizing that while his SKIN is BLACK - he's very different from most of the other black children he's met in middle school. It's more a case of socio-economics and education than anything else, but he's getting a whole lot of grief from the other black kids, "You don't TALK black!" "You don't DRESS black!" (His pat response is, "Neither does President Obama!&quot "You don't ACT black." "Why do you act like your so smart?" (He is.) "Why do you talk like you're white?" "Why are you in that Spanish class?" (it's a Spanish immersion program.)

Of course now he's started calling them racist. ("What does 'acting black' mean, anyway?!?&quot Along with the the white kids who want to "act ghetto". All black people aren't "ghetto" he says. All BLACK people don't have to speak incorrect English, sag their pants, fail school and belong to a gang. . . Fortunately, he's big enough no one really messes with him much, but he certainly feels left out. By EVERYBODY sometimes.

Funny thing - he's a dancer (and a football player). He takes dance 'cause he likes it - ballet, jazz, tap, modern, contemporary, and HIP-HOP - and it's great exercise. He takes hiphop from some very very good black hiphop dancers. Yet ye refuses to dance at the school dance 'cause they'd make fun of them even though he actually KNOWS how to hip-hop and they're just hopping around! Of course he is a pretty big kid, ya know, but he's still afraid they'll laugh at and make fun of him.

FWIW - He told me a few months back that he didn't think of himself as "black". I got a little tense thinking OMG have *I* screwed up this kid's life!! Then he continued, "I just think of myself as a PERSON. Why do people get so hung up on what color their freaking skin is anyway?!?

not sure how all this relates to the OP ....

[nofurylike]

9. your son sounds brave and confident! great! thank you for posting that, mzteris!! nt

[mzteris]

10. He just told me

some of the other (black) kids called HIM a "racist" because he said he didn't "speak Black".

He's just going to pretend he's Hispanic from now on. (I'm kidding of course!)

[nofurylike]

14. from what you have told us, he is going to be good for the other students,

since he is able to take the pressure from them while still speaking his truth to them. you have nurtured great self-esteem in him, mzteris!

great it is Spanish immersion, too!

thank you!

[onpatrol98]

11. Wow...you're walking down my street now!!!

FWIW - He told me a few months back that he didn't think of himself as "black". I got a little tense thinking OMG have *I* screwed up this kid's life!! Then he continued, "I just think of myself as a PERSON. Why do people get so hung up on what color their freaking skin is anyway?!?

----------------------------------
Down here in Mississippi, my 16 year old went through this experience. We really encouraged every activity he considered...within reason. So, now he's an Eagle Scout, plays a number of instruments including piano, guitar, trumpet, drums, most sports (football, basketball, baseball, track, tennis), but he's also been on the swim team and enjoys diving.

Well, I'm black but my husband is white. My 16 year old is also black. But, he's always enjoyed friends of any nationality, ethnicity, complexion, etc...LOL.

In his first year of high school, he had a miserable experience. But, it was from other black children. They didn't like the fact (and told him), that he had a white stepfather. One day, I guess he made the "mistake" of saying that he had a great father and several of the black kids jumped him after class. Essentially they told him, "that white man" can't love you and you shouldn't tell people you like him. (They saw him getting picked up from school)

Now, I should mention. These were older kids, although they were in the same class. Whenever he attempted to answer a question, they called him all kinds of names. I mean, it was all out harassment. Now, they did initially try to get my son to "hang out" with them. But, it was a relationship doomed to failure. This group made no effort to study, played no sports, majored in saggy pants and underwear display. But, whenever they saw my son with any white friends or unacceptable (to them) black friends or Hispanic friends, they made his life miserable.

It was after all of this, that they finally explained the "rules" to him. Believe it or not, this was my son's experience of realizing being black really made a difference. I was struck by the irony. According to their rules, he was not supposed to have white friends or even like white people. Certain sports were not acceptable. Acting like he knew answers in class was not acceptable...etc. My son took this as...being "him" was not acceptable. He was the wrong kind of black, I guess.

Well...thankfully, he picked up on the fact, that he didn't have to be anyone else's version of what a black man should be. I tried to emphasize to him. Look we didn't fight for freedom, to get a new form of slavery!

So, in my house, although I tend to look skeptically at black republicans. I'm quick to tell my sons that black people are a diverse group. We're not monolithic. And, should he get the urge to besmirch them...I remind him about how he felt when others choose to second guess his intentions and put him in a box.

[mzteris]

13. I love this line. . .

"we didn't fight for freedom, to get a new form of slavery!"

Sounds like you're a great mom and he's a good kid.

[nofurylike]

6. great thread! thank you for posting that, ZenLefty! nt

[ZenLefty]

18. These are really great stories so far.

Heartbreaking, sad, insightful, all of that at the same time. Even inspiring, just to see how people can overcome the hate and the adversity and not let it destroy them. I appreciate everyone who's shared and I've read every one of these with a little bit more understanding than I had before.

I did finally buy Ice-T's book. I'm not much into his music but I think he's a good actor and from what I've heard he's lived an interesting life.

[nofurylike]

21. they are great, and yes, heartbreaking, sad, and inspiring ....

thank you, everyone who's shared, and you, ZenLefty, for gifting me with this "little bit more understanding than I had before."

more, please!

[onpatrol98]

12. My first day...okay

I remember being in a little department store. My sister and I are supposed to buy a birthday gift for a boy in her class. I'm standing there...bored...and my sister is holding a box looking at it. I can't even remember what's in the box. She's about 5 years old at the time. A few feet away, there's this little white boy on the floor, playing with this car. I mean he's zooming and driving and making all these sounds. We had been trained not to touch things in stores. Especially not in the downtown stores. But, she was holding this box and I'm telling her...put the box down.

Well, this white lady comes over looks at me and my sister with the most evil look imaginable and yells at us about playing with the toys. Now, mind you. I'm not holding a toy. My sister is holding a box. But, she is by no means playing with anything. Although our parents aren't with us...we know the routine. Don't play with things in stores.

Well, I look over at the kid on the floor because I'm thinking...she's got to be talking to him. But, the kid never looks up and she never looks at him. So, now I'm slightly panicked. Because heck...I'm a kid. I say, we weren't playing with anything. And, then she looks at my sister. So, I tell her to put the box down.

I grab her hand and we leave. We lived in one of these small towns. You're two blocks from every place. So, we start walking home. And, I can remember holding my head down. My cheeks are hot. My sister doesn't know what's wrong. She figures it out a few weeks later when a neighbor's kid tells her he doesn't play with "Ni#$er" kids.

She was playing in the back yard when this little white boy comes over and tells her this...so, she comes in and asks my father what that means. But, she mispronounces it. She comes in and asks my dad why the kid called her a nickle. Boy, my dad was furious. An old couple lived next door to us, but their grandson was visiting. Now, that old man had helped my father put up my basketball goal and had helped with little odd and end things.

So, we hadn't gotten any hint that he might've been racist. When my father goes over to ask him what his grandson meant by the remark...he apologized profusely and spanked the kid right there on the spot.

Then he told my father that his son in law was racist and he was raising his kids to be the same way.

We didn't interact with the old guy much after that. He really did seem like a good guy. But, somehow, it's just never the same.

Now, this was in the 80s...not the 50s or 60s.

[nofurylike]

15. thank you for telling us about that, onpatrol98!

it is heartbreaking, and indecent, that you were put through that. and it is heartbreaking again, and shameful, to hear, "Now, this was in the 80s...not the 50s or 60s."

may we grow faster and farther by the second!!

[SemperEadem]

16. I don't recall any defining moment

I just recall my mother telling me years later the real reason why we couldn't go to "Holiday Hill", which used to be way out on Natural Bridge Road in St. Louis county, where the road meets I-70W near the airport---there's a White Castle where the amusement park used to be.

My folks tried to protect us from any unnecessary exposure to stupid white people and she said the party line was "Daddy couldn't afford it this week". She didn't have the heart to tell us "we can't go because we're black.." It didn't desegregate until after 1967, I think.

Both of my folks had white grandparents; my mom has hazel-green eyes and very light skin and my dad was dark brown with bone straight, jet black hair. They both had degrees and worked. We were the first black family in our neighborhood and I have to honestly say that I never had an experience of racism that I could say stopped me cold with the realization that I was black. I had both white and black friends whose parents treated me well. My brother and sister, on the other hand, did have problems.

My brother's grief was from white boys and my sister's was from black girls. The grief I did have was more from black girls than white girls when I was young all because of my hair and their projection on the "degree of cuteness they felt sure I held for myself".

[nofurylike]

22. thank you so much for posting that, SemperEadem!

bless your mother, your parents, protecting you "from any unnecessary exposure to stupid white people ... "

i am so sorry they even had to.

[bigtree]

19. great thread

You know, most of my revelations about racist and bigoted attitudes (perhaps directed toward me) came upon reflection later in life. I can't believe today just how much I shoved under my skin back then and just laughed it off, or, more troubling, took it all on myself and decided the alienation and the rest was something I was responsible for engendering. Like the time at the big Woodward and Lothrop's in downtown D.C. at a snack counter downstairs when I sat on the stool and my mother snatched me off and apologized to the clerk . . .

[kwassa]

20. and Woodies is now gone .....

like all the regional department stores in DC.

and my mother-in-law picked up all this flatware from the Woodie's tea room at a yard sale somewhere, and gave it to us. On occasions where we have many guests eating at the extended dining room table, like Christmas, we use that flatware. It wasn't a pale crowd. I'm white, my wife is black, and it was mostly her family here, including mother-in-law, of course.

[bigtree]

24. It was a big deal for my mother to shop at W&L. We took at least three buses to get there

I have memories from the late 60's to the middle 70's and it was a microcosm for the remnants of segregation in the city which was part voluntary and part economically driven - both in the pricing of goods and in the ability of folks in the city to afford them. We lost almost all of the small shops along Georgia Ave. which were such a necessity for residents in the riots. The larger dept. stores dominated the marketplace thereafter.

But you didn't see a large crowd of D.C. residents shopping at Woodies or Hecht Co.. My mom would dress us like it was Sunday and take us on the hours long journey. I remember the bathrooms. The stalls were coin-operated. Cost a nickle or a dime or a quarter to get in and do your business. I crawled under more than once.

I don't remember a lunch counter that we actually ate at until the 70's, and when one did open upstairs, Mom made a deliberate effort to stop and eat something there. I know that going there and shopping was, at first, a determined defiance against a social barrier. She saw her role in affecting the struggle for opportunity as well as acceptance in that way. It gave us kids a healthy sense of entitlement, as far as those public accommodations were concerned. Woodward and Lothrup changed their policies and attitudes in keeping and in time with the evolving attitudes and makeup of their customer base.

[nofurylike]

23. thank you for the look in to your experience of it, bigtree!

" ... took it all on myself and decided the alienation and the rest was something I was responsible for engendering."
it seems to me it would be hard not to do that, when so many were denying racism, and blaming the targets of it, blaming you.

i am sorry you had to go through that.

[bigtree]

25. hey, you're welcome

Look . . . we all have positive and negative influences in our lives which may or may not affect us. It just so happens that the issues of race - as well as the issues of the LGBT and other communities in which some attempt to define or legislate members outside of the American mainstream -- are wedded inseparably to the question of our full and unambiguous citizenship. That's what I mostly felt when Rodney King was beaten and the perps were acquitted. That's what I felt as affirmative action was under assault. That's what is at stake for me as I watch some try and denigrate this historic presidency based on their petty and lurid prejudices.

We likely read the same history books. It's a wonder more folks weren't completely blown away by reading our history. Talk about making you insecure or defensive . . . Think about just how close behind us all of that was. Think about how the rights most of us take for granted weren't even a reality for the majority until the passage of the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act. Think of how close behind us all of that was.

I'm not sure we're actually 'through' it all yet.

[nofurylike]

26. "I'm not sure we're actually 'through' it all yet." i can see why it feels that way, bigtree!

Last edited Sat Feb 11, 2012, 08:32 AM - Edit history (2)

so many bigots fight and demand to go back to it! and we are seeing how violent the death throes of their arrogantly ignorant bigotry are.

"Talk about making you insecure or defensive . . . Think about just how close behind us all of that was." you express it so well. i feel it so deeply reading that. "Think of how close behind us all of that was." like haunting; sometimes like lurking, hankering to pounce again? i can not imagine how it must feel to be black and watching what we yearn to celebrate as healing keep trying to fester again.

"It's a wonder more folks weren't completely blown away by reading our history." it is shameful when they are not.

i want to hear and hear ....

thank you, again, more, bigtree.




*edit to clarify

[MADem]

29. You can’t necessarily change the ignorant way people think—but you can damn sure control the way it

affects you personally.

No truer words!

[ZenLefty]

30. Yeah, that really stood out to me.

People with this attitude have an inner strength that others do not.

[MADem]

31. My mother and grandmother used to tell me something similar.

Words to live by, for sure.