African American
Related: About this forumMy impression of the candidates at Democratic Candidate's Forum ...
I missed most of Martin O'Malley's segment, so I have no impression; but, of HRC and Bernie, I came away thinking ...
Bernie was saying: "I know the problems, you know the problem, I have my thoughts; and, here is the answer. Get behind me and let's make it happen."
HRC was saying: I know the problems, you know the problem, I have my thoughts answer; but, let's get together and figure it out, so we can make it happen."
Personally, I see the latter as the more practical, and my preferred, approach.
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brer cat
(24,577 posts)You captured it perfectly.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)I think that better captures my thoughts on what I heard.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)You have to figure it out then make it happen.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)and that, entails more than, telling someone something to do.
brer cat
(24,577 posts)I responded earlier this morning to an OP by ism about books for Black children. I didn't include it in my post, but I was thinking about the difference in writing to and writing about children. Bernie is good at talking to. I think both Hillary and MO'M have demonstrated a willingness, even eagerness, to listen...learning about... before making decisions, while Bernie seems to believe that his policies are the bee's knees if only we would listen.
Digital Puppy
(496 posts)Not only does this resonate with me when trying to understand a particular political candidate, it resonates with me in my life when figuring out problems at work, home, etc. I want to feel I am part of the solution, not just a wedge or leverage in someone else's grand plan.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)just as others are attracted to Trump's certainty, or Carson's certainty.
Stellar
(5,644 posts)I missed it too.
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)
JustAnotherGen
(31,828 posts)2nd highest median income for blacks in America.
52K given back the right to vote.
Low infant morality.
Decreased prison population.
comprehensive gun safety legislation
15 years Of executive experience doing things with his progressive values.
Black lives matter means a lot more than changing the drug laws to cater to pot heads and stopping the police from inflicting pain on our community.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)
lovemydog
(11,833 posts)
sheshe2
(83,791 posts)Thank you 1SBM.
Dawgs
(14,755 posts)Is that right?
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)
randys1
(16,286 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)I trust, and have trusted, with my life.
...maybe you should whitesplain your position at me. I'm really slow due to all this Stockholm Syndrome.
Dawgs
(14,755 posts)All I did was ask a question. And it wasn't even directed at you.
Digital Puppy
(496 posts)..and be a good lil pup. Sorry to make you upset. Please don't alert on me. I promise to be good and agree with everything you are trying to learn me!!
Dawgs
(14,755 posts)I don't care, and never did.
Digital Puppy
(496 posts)...After you come in here being an ass??
That is apparent.
The question is why did you come in here and post in the first place?
Dawgs
(14,755 posts)Wasn't being an ass. It was an honest question.
You assumed something you shouldn't and talked down to me. And then responded in a snarky, condescending when I responded. I'm not the one with issues here.
Digital Puppy
(496 posts)You came in and posted a dumb ass comment and then got mad when you where called out. Don't be mad and catch the vapors ("Gasp!!! My stars, why are you attacking poor lil ol me!?!?" to your obvious attempts to attack a member for supporting a candidate....
Did you ever get the answer to that 'honest' question, by the way? No? Probably because they saw through your b.s.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)And, am still waiting for a reply.
What I wrote had nothing to do with "trust".
Dawgs
(14,755 posts)I read the OP wrong.
That doesn't mean, as the other poster suggested, that I was trying to whitesplain something to someone, or that I was trying to tell others what to do.
I am genuinely curious about why people trust Hillary and I'm searching for a good reason, as I don't trust her YET. Again, I was wrong to think that about your OP.
I'm sorry.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)I trust very few politicians and then, only on a few topics, and after much history.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)I imagine you'll allege your question is both sincere and relevant...?
randys1
(16,286 posts)of what they the questioner doesnt understand which if he or she did would not ask the question in the first place.
I dont know if my friends here trust Bernie or not, or dont trust Hillary.
What I do know is MY education or frame of reference or non minority status does not qualify me to have any clue, whatsoever, why a minority would or would not trust any politician.
I would never assume that they could trust one over another, even though I personally believe they can, but I do not dare ASSUME it is true or lecture them about it.
Because my position and theirs could not be more different. It would be like me trying to explain to a bird how to fly or something.
Kind of Blue
(8,709 posts)1SBM gave an analysis. He said this is "my preferred position" and "better captures my thoughts." Then you come with the question of where his trust lies. Though your mind is made up for Bernie, as for me, I'd say we in this forum consider ourselves more like at a bargaining table where trust hasn't Even been established. This is what the candidates are doing and they've got a year to do it. We have a right to analyze and hash things out before we can assess trust. Trust in what and with what at this stage are you even asking? Especially since 1SBM's analysis was dealing with the question of handling problems and nothing specific.
So asking such a question is premature and does not sound sincere at this early stage in the game.
randys1
(16,286 posts)you than to us?
I know it myself and yet sometimes I find myself typing a lecturing type post about why Bernie is probably better than Hillary, then I catch myself.
How do you even being to explain to us how drastically different an election is for you than us?
It encapsulates the whole white privilege thing as well as so many other things.
Kind of Blue
(8,709 posts)From what I've witnessed you seem to be able to give people the space to be, randys1. It's other people's unecessary anxieties at this point that's the problem.
"It encapsulates the whole white privilege thing as well as so many other things."
Exactly, for a group far less likely to wind up a police statistic, among other things, the pitches and pushing and prodding are annoying to say the least, especially here.
Rebkeh
(2,450 posts)I think the first one is better though. Bernie sounds like a leader, Hillary sounds like a boss (not the good kind). The country is not a company or business, it is more like a community.
My assessment is Hillary knows how to play the game. Bernie wants to change the game.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)While I agree Bernie wants to change the game; but, like that bad boss, he strikes me as having little concern for allowing me input into the how or the timing of that change, or what the end state will look like.
IOWs, "I got this ... now, March that away!"
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)Which some of the true-believers hate because that sounds like "compromiser" -- which they think is terrible.
Maybe it's generational, because when I was growing up the ability to compromise between different viewpoints was viewed as a good thing -- and an absolutely necessary part of our system of government.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)I don't see "negotiating" for inclusiveness/participation with Democrats, as compromising ... I see it as being inclusive.
After that ... I, also, don't see compromising with the gop as a bad thing ... so long as the needle is moved to the left. I really don't care what thing "enthusiastic" left, THINK we could've gotten, if only ... I only care that any compromise move the needle, even slightly, to the left.
I know ... I know ... I'm a oligarch captured, 3rd way, Stockholm suffering, corporate lackey.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)And all of our candidates would want that.
But what I hate to see is a kind of "all or nothing" approach. I don't want "nothing." I want progress.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)I really don't care what thing "enthusiastic" left, THINK we could've gotten, if only ... I only care that any compromise move the needle, even slightly, to the left.
Spazito
(50,365 posts)I would add Martin O'Malley as saying, in essence, the same as Hillary, showing he wants to listen, learn from those affected and not just push his own answers as THE answers as Senator Sanders seems to do.
JustAnotherGen
(31,828 posts)Change is incremental.
Spazito
(50,365 posts)I thought he did very well last night, was able to expand on his thoughts on the issues while giving those watching/listening a sense of the man himself. The format served him very well, imo.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Every social movement has taught us that.
Rebkeh
(2,450 posts)But only because we want it to be. We can change it all in six months if we had consensus on how to do it, if we really wanted to. There are obstacles, racism is one. We often think all of us have to change - not true. Most of us have to change and we are closer than we think.
That said, we can only play the cards we are dealt, by dealing with the realities directly in front of us. I realize that.
While lasting change is incremental, it's not necessarily linear. Progress ebbs and flows, circles around, and every once in a while, leaps forward. Windows of opportunity present themselves to get to the root of the problem. In terms of the primary election, the root is the establishment and one candidate is invested in the very establishment she (says she) wants to change. At this time, with the window open, it doesn't make sense to vote for her. Not when we are primed for a leap.
Bernie is uniquely qualified to change the game from within, Hillary could but her game is to protect the system that supports her.
So he may be saying "get behind me," but he actually wants to upset the apple cart, as it were. I want that. Besides, it's a hell of a lot better than a wink and a nod with "trust me, I know the game."
In other words, right now it's the people vs. the system, not dem v repub. Not yet. When that time comes, I will vote for the dem, whoever it may be.
MH1
(17,600 posts)If the losers lose too much too fast the backlash will reverse the change, potentially regressing back to worse than it was before.
Incremental change gives people time to adjust their thinking and adapt their lives (and hopefully see why the new way is the better way), that is why it has a better chance of sticking.
I just don't understand how a Sanders presidency amounts to unstable change to that degree, he's just one man. But it's a start, and a chance to set in motion change that could stick for once. With Hillary, there would be no change at all.
People are dying - it's worth the risk at this time. After the primary election is over, the chance will be gone. Any of the three democrats can beat the republicans in the general so why think small?
JustAnotherGen
(31,828 posts)"no change at all" is true about Hillary Clinton.
Just like I don't believe revolution is a given with Sanders.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)But I think that language is more campaign hyperbole ... for most.
The political needle will move to the Left with HRC and the revolution sought won't come via the ballot box. History demonstrates, both.
Cha
(297,317 posts)Thank you for saying this, 1StrongBlackMan~
a sales pitch with a plastic smile. A hustle.
Bernie keeps it 100.
JustAnotherGen
(31,828 posts)And knows how to get things done.
Bernie - eh? I don't trust him. I don't.
But I have a huge problem with Washington D.C. Lifers in general. He has the same misfortune with me that Clinton has - wrong place, at the wrong time, for far too long.
It's been too long. Let's get someone in there who is young and from outside the beltway without a long history of bad blood in those halls and byways.
Rebkeh
(2,450 posts)He's my second choice because I trust him more than Clinton, but he's still part of the of the mainline dem party. I believe he would step in formation and align with the establishment rather than be true to progressive principles. There's a time and place to fall in line, going along to get along is often a matter of survival, but there are also times to buck the system - this is one of them. Neoliberalism is not what progressivism is about, the Democratic Party is heading in the wrong direction.
I want to be clear that I'm not anti-Hillary, vote for whoever you think best. I'm no "Bernie Bro." I'm also concerned that so many of the Bernie folks are getting it so wrong when talking with poc and about racial issues. How they get it so right and so wrong at the same time boggles my mind. They also underestimate the black vote, to their own detriment, thinking we are a monolithic bloc. I've gotten into it with several of them but it's not changing my vote for Bernie. I've been a fan of his for years.
Cha
(297,317 posts)"100".
Hillary is performing. Bernie is authentic, even when it can hurt him politically and he's been this way for decades. Hillary has never given me any reason to believe a word she says - she may be sincere but other people own her. Oppressors own her, the very people invested in injustice own her. She is beholden to people that are invested in inequality.
These are facts.
Cha
(297,317 posts)
Number23
(24,544 posts)I've been away from DU for about a week and have heard absolutely NOTHING about him in all of that time. Not a peep in the national or international media about him.
Even read a Vanity Fair article where he was referred to only as "one of Hillary Clinton's challengers" and "a 74-year old Socialist" and they didn't even bother to name him specifically. Kind of says it all...
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Now you've done it ... You've just took the media is conspiring against Bernie, international!
Number23
(24,544 posts)of nobodies." Literally.
And this was on the ABC (Australian Broadcasting Co) which is about as leftie as you can get.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Rebkeh
(2,450 posts)That says more about your news sources than his campaign.
Number23
(24,544 posts)