Cornel West Surrogacy highlights a major problem with the Sanders' campaign's outreach strategy

[Empowerer]

Jonathan Capehart wrote a compelling piece explaining why Cornel West is not the right person to do outreach to the black community. If you haven't read it yet, I hope you will: https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2016/01/22/how-cornel-west-hurts-bernie-sanders/?postshare=4561453490135953&tid=ss_fb

But beyond his failure as an influencer, the Cornel West surrogacy epitomizes a serious problem with the Sanders' campaign's outreach strategy, not just with regard to African Americans, but to a broader audience. They spend too much time and effort looking inward and not enough effort reaching outward - at least not reaching outward in an inclusive, thoughtful way.

The campaign and its supporters seem to be more about satisfying themselves than in reaching out to bring others in. It has the atmosphere of a clique, a "cool kids club" that is all about reinforcing how cool and correct the current members are. If you're not one of them, you are an "other." And if you don't jump on board immediately and wholeheartedly, you are promptly dismissed and subsequently dealt with only as a subject of derision and contempt. I have seen very little effort to find out what those who not already in the camp think or want. Instead we're all told what we SHOULD want, who we SHOULD support, who we SHOULDN'T support, why we're crazy to do otherwise and if we don't agree, WE are the problem because we just don't get it. If we don't "FEEL THE BERN," it's our loss, not the campaign's. And then with a "Screw you - we don't need you anyway" kiss-off, they turn back inward to talk amongst themselves, telling one another how great Bernie is, how enlightened they are and how awful and clueless everyone else is.

That is evident in the embrace of Cornel West. Dr. West is much more popular with white liberals than he is with African Americans who generally (with some exceptions, of course, since we don't ALL think alike) believe that, while he was once a substantial scholar he has deteriorated into a rather silly, shallow and petty figure. I suspect that many white folks think he's wonderful because they don't know too many black people and believe that he is unusually brilliant; however, black folk know all manner of brilliant people of color, so we're not all that impressed with Dr. West's erudite sounding but hollow pontificating.

Yet, despite his low regard in the black community, Dr. West was brought in to attract more blacks to the Sanders campaign. It obviously has not worked. We have made that clear. But instead of listening to us and respecting our view, Sanders supporters just tell us how much THEY like Dr. West. But frankly, who cares if THEY like him? He's not there to get their support - they're already on board.

That seems to be totally lost on the Sanders campaign and many of its supporters.

[1StrongBlackMan]

38. And your concern about anything Black is duly noted. n/t

[99th_Monkey]

39. I trust the AA community to sort things out, come crunch time.

which is coming right up.

My only problem w/the article is that it focuses more on denigrating and insulting
other AA's who support Bernie and Bernie supporters in general; than it does on informing
us about exactly why AA's should vote for Hillary (with her spotty record on racial injustice)
as opposed to Bernie, who has been a steadfast ally to PoC for decades, despite being
elected to represent a mostly white state.

It has the smell of a calculated hit-piece against Sanders, rather than giving AA's a convincing
reason to support Hillary.

[1StrongBlackMan]

61. Trust , we will ...

Last edited Sun Jan 24, 2016, 01:13 PM - Edit history (1)

But the question is what will you do when we choose? Will you continue to refer to us as low information voting Stockholm Syndrome suffering, 3rd way lackeys, or will you finally recognize what most of DU's African-Americans have been telling you ... You do not get to telk us what are interests are.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

93. AA voters are very smart, but tend to exercise strategic voting more than anything.

The very false meme that black people blindly vote for Democrats could not be further from the truth. As a whole, the black electorate weighs its options according to who, strategically, has a better chance of representing its interests. Knowing that Republicans collectively either do not care, or are openly hostile to the plight of black Americans, will choose the "lesser of two evils"--the Democrat, by and large.

I maintain the argument that the black electorate doesn't really like the Clintons, but feel that Hillary Clinton has the better chance of beating the Republican nominee. I'm being completely honest. Bernie, as much as I like him, simply doesn't come across as strong and presidential. It seems to me that he'd allow Republicans to run all over him---much worse than Obama. All the tough talk that has gotten liberals fired up over Bernie would dissipate as soon as he realizes that he has no choice but to compromise and work with Republicans---even moderate and conservative Democrats--to get anything done.

As much as I can't stand HRC, I argue that people are looking at her to be the only option we have. Again, until Bernie changes that perception, I'm not sure he stands a chance, and this is something that his supporters don't seem to grasp; they just think black voters haven't warmed to Bernie and that it's unfair.

First, Bernie supporters need to stop belittling black people and insulting them--trying to tell them what's in their best interest. Black Americans aren't children; we know what's best for us.

Second, Bernie still has a problematic agenda in terms of placing class considerations and economic justice above social justice and understanding the preeminence of race. That is HUGE in the black community. And that Bernie and many of his supporters either don't understand that or are deliberately unwilling to accept it is a problem for many (not all) black voters will be his undoing.

[Empowerer]

102. THIS!

First, Bernie supporters need to stop belittling black people and insulting them--trying to tell them what's in their best interest. Black Americans aren't children; we know what's best for us.

Second, Bernie still has a problematic agenda in terms of placing class considerations and economic justice above social justice and understanding the preeminence of race. That is HUGE in the black community. And that Bernie and many of his supporters either don't understand that or are deliberately unwilling to accept it is a problem for many (not all) black voters will be his undoing.

[Number23]

42. Why are people who AREN'T black coming into the AA forum in an OP created by a black DUer

to post an article written by a BLACK MAN and acting as though what's being said is not representative of the black community?

What EXACTLY do you hope to gain by doing this?

[99th_Monkey]

54. Actually it was my bad. I didn't see which forum I was in until after I'd posted

and I didn't know whites were not welcome, provided they are respectful, which I
try to be wherever I am.

Sorry for any offense I may have cause you, or others.

[Number23]

55. An adorable attempt to excuse your behavior. You could have stopped at "I'm sorry I was

being needlessly intrusive and offensive" but nice touch to toss in the "I didn't know whites weren't welcome" bit too.

And if that's you being "respectful" then God help us all. I didn't see respectful from your posts at all, but I did see a big old heaping serve of paternalistic dismissiveness as if the black man who wrote the piece, the black person who posted it and the forum for AA members where it was being discussed couldn't possibly represent "the black community" and understand its thoughts and beliefs better than... you, apparently.

And then you topped i fall off with a great big heaping of "Stop attacking Bernie!!1one" for flavor and I TRULY cannot tell you how tired I am of white people on DU braying about how black people are "attacking" Sanders.

Like I told the other poster, if it upsets your constitution that black people will talk about what WE want to talk about and think what we want about the candidates, you don't have to read this forum. And if you trash it, it would prevent you from "accidentally" stumbling in here again.

[99th_Monkey]

56. I'm not going to continue this. I apologized, and it's not accepted. Got it.

I will be more observant in the future to make sure which forum I'm posting in, and will
attempt to avoid AA altogether, as I'm clearly not welcome.

[Number23]

57. If the only posts you find worthwhile in this forum are ones that discuss your pres candidate in

glowing terms and if you think that black people are "attacking" by merely discussing your or any other candidate's many, MANY flaws then maybe you should just steer clear.

[1StrongBlackMan]

98. And, if your "I didn't know" was sincere ...

You could have just self - deleted.

BTW, you do realize that a majority of the posters to the AA Group are white/non-black, and though we/they certianly don't always agee, it seems only a special few (non-regulars ... who only appear to come into the Group to spout Bernie) feel the need to express the paternalistic stuff, like "I trust that Black folks will figure it out."

Well, first we have, and second, who the fuck are you?

[Empowerer]

103. LOL

Your last line . . .

[lunamagica]

76. Shows how little you know about this forum. I'm not black, and I've felt very welcomed here.

Why do you always have to be so condescending and rude ?

[wildeyed]

84. I'm white.

I feel very welcome here.

Next time, try this instead:

Actually it was my bad. I didn't see which forum I was in until after I'd posted. Sorry for any offense I may have cause you, or others.

Pretty sure that would have been warmly accepted. BTW, regular posters here WELL understand Clinton's flaws without outside assistance. But thanks for you concern

[greatauntoftriplets]

92. I'm white and feel very comfortable in this forum.

[Dawson Leery]

2. West is trash.

He referred to the President of the United States as a "n***er. What does that say about Cornel?

[JustAnotherGen]

7. If he wins - he will indeed need that

He could also just use White House.gov

If I want it direct I go there or listen to Obama.

I'm sick to death of jabs from the MSM and Left AND Right leaning blogs at Obama.

Enough - a black man won twice n now America needs to get over it.

Though I would say - America has been doing everything it can to punish black Americans since he won at the NON Federal level. The chips on the shoulder have been astounding.

That's why I state emphatically - racist piece of shit country.

[BlueMTexpat]

10. Excellent points and

WhiteHouse.gov is a great site!

[draa]

22. WhiteHouse.gov is not a political blog.

I'm going to post another comment I made concerning Obama. Please disregard the opening sentence because it was directed at another person on DU.

You also seem to be oblivious to many things. The racist shit we see today is also part of the propaganda they sell. Keep every one fighting while they steal our lives and those of our children. You do realize childhood poverty is HIGHER now than during the recession, right? 22% in fact. Why do corporate profits and the 1% get richer while our children starve? Hmm, I wonder. And not understanding that, as you're doing now, only proves their propaganda works. Rant or not that's the truth.

As far as the jabs from various blogs directed at Obama? That doesn't bother me because Obama, who I voted for twice, is in that big chair for a reason. I'm pretty sure he can handle that. Also, we can't stop people from lying and promoting conspiracy but we can build more honest infrastructure instead of the neoliberal crap we see today.

The status quo has lead to mass killings, black youth being gunned down, record poverty, the income of 1% growing out of control, unending wars for profit, the rapid rise of extremists (here and abroad), and many other social and economic issue.

Those are features of Neo-policies that both parties push. They aren't by accident either. But no one sees it because the establishment propaganda - which is now blogs - keep everyone at each others throat. They push hate of the other party. They push fear of the other party. We can and must change that and begin to reverse course. We can't do it with the existing infrastructure our party has so new Democratic Socialist blogs are needed. Thanks.

[JustAnotherGen]

34. I understand plenty

The staus quo lead to none of this - individuals have made a choice to operate from a place of fear. And it's not new - its been going on since 1976 - just white racists have been insane since Obama handed McCain and Romney their asses on a platter.

[Number23]

40. This web site is full of places where this kind of belligerance will get you plenty of fans

This is not one of them. Please do not return to this thread.

[draa]

41. Go ahead and try to stop me.

I haven't violated any TOS and you nor anyone else will shut me up. In fact, if you don't like what I have to say don't read the fucking comment. Thanks.

[Number23]

44. You can post your bewildering and needless rage at nothing everywhere else on DU

But you won't do it here and you will not continue to disrespect minority DUers because we have the unmitigated gall to discuss something that upsets your delicate constitution.

If you don't like what black DUers are writing, you don't have to read US. Second and last time I am going to ask you to stop participating in this thread and in this forum.

[draa]

46. That's fine. And for what it's worth I do apologize.

And as far as I know I didn't violate TOS but I did disrupt the group and that was uncalled for. And if I insulted the DU'er you defended then I apologize to them as well. I'm also not angry but I do get defensive at times so...

Again, I apologize to the group. Thanks and stay safe.

[JustAnotherGen]

65. Whoa - don't know what happened

But thanks. As you know - I'm a cynic.

So my cynical attitude must have sparked the comments now deleted.

[wildeyed]

26. And the money they spend to make sure we stay that way is immense.

"Though I would say - America has been doing everything it can to punish black Americans since he won at the NON Federal level. The chips on the shoulder have been astounding."

There has been furious backlash in NC. Remember how Obama squeaked out an electoral vote victory here in 2008? But I want to emphasize that much of the backlash comes from the elites who have been running NC for generations. They were so freaked out by that loss, they began throwing tens of millions of dollars at us, aided a abetted by Citizens United and the rolled back sections of Voting Rights. They spent a million dollars on a state level judicial race alone. http://www.southernstudies.org/2014/05/5-players-behind-the-big-money-attacks-in-nc-supre.html

Obama was a very visible win in NC, but it was powered by a systematic organization of grassroots groups, representing a full spectrum of color and class, who focused on expanding voting rights as the primary path to electoral victory. We had been working on that problem for YEARS before Obama came along. And OMG, he was the perfect fusion politics candidate. Could not ask for better.... But his victory was predicated on the fact that we had been expanding the electorate and turning out more poor and young voters than ever in the states history for years.

Sure, there are racist individuals who were threatened by Obama's victory. But the RW power people spent MILLIONS fanning that flame, using the oldest play in the political book, divide and conquer. Without their influence, I doubt it would have added up to anything like we are seeing, at least in my state.


That was a long and circuitous explanation of why I agree that yes, this is a racist piece of shit country but also, a few very powerful individuals spend a ton to make sure we stay that way anytime they see we might be making progress in the other direction.

[JustAnotherGen]

64. Moral Mondays!

My mom sitting up in Rochester NY has followed what has gone on in NC closely.

She has been saying for a few years - this is blood thirsty retaliation.

Note - prior to retirement by a year or two she was a VP at a hotel management company - and had quite a few hotels in NC. Marketing side of the house so she really knows demographics. She can't believe NC is willing to throw its rep as an innovation longitude and latitude under the bus for in her words - the ideas of knuckle dragging mouth breathers.

[wildeyed]

68. I believe it is worse than that.

The GOPs driving this mess are mostly old school guys, Art Pope (rich NC businessman and Koch brother disciple) and his crew. I think they understand EXACTLY where the demographics are going and that their time is limited no matter how many voters they disenfranchise. It is basically a smash and grab.

They are passing rules that benefit their cronies, privatize public services, etc. They are pumping as much money out of public coffers and into their own pockets as possible and vandalizing all the nice public things the state has on the way out. White supremacy is really ugly when it feels cornered....

An example, charter school oversight is basically nil now. They increased the number allowed and weakened the fiscal oversight rules. A guy in Raleigh who is also a Civitas board member (Art Pope's political action group) owns a for-profit charter school chain. He owns a separate company that rents the school building and all items in it to the charter school group. And then he is the chairman of the charter school board of directors. And the state is not overseeing the money that is changing hands AT ALL. But if the charter school is not able to pay its bills, guess who is on the hook? You guessed! The state and the taxpayers! And guess who gets to keep his real estate and other assets? Yep. The guy who is politically connected and set up the whole disgraceful boondoggle in the first place.

And they are set on destroying our excellent public university system too. They have particular political beefs with UNC-Chapel Hill, the flagship campus. Despite being listed as one of the best values in higher education in the country, they have cut budgets and installed their own political puppet as the president.

And then there are voting rights..... And this is my personal passion too.... The Moral Monday coalition came into being long before Moral Mondays were a thing. We were a loosely organized progressive coalition group. Our members included a huge spectrum of individual interests, but we all agreed that we had the same enemies and that by organizing our efforts, we would all see more progress in each area. And it was agreed that the most efficient path to victory was to first expand the electorate to include more poor, young, black and latino voters. So we started doing tons of grassroots voter education and mobilization drives on the ground, and lobbying the Democratically controlled legislature for better laws in the legislature.

We got same-day voter registration, longer early voting periods, publicly funded judicial campaigns and ran some tests with instant-runoff voting (so cool, google it) in primaries. OMG, the GOP here hated Sunday early voting because we facilitated a Souls to the Polls campaign where black churches would do a BBQ after services and run vans to and from early vote sites all afternoon. All completely legit because no one told anyone which candidate or party to support. And no one was stopping white churches from doing the same, right? But it seemed to enrage the GOP. We divided up underrepresented precincts and would canvass during early voting to increase turnout (remember, we had same day registration too!). Um, we turned out the homeless shelters and through that effort got some low income housing built for that population. Ex-felons re-enfranchisement education. Registering new citizens. ACORN (and another organizer after they got disbanded) did turnout in public housing. On and on.... And we were successful! Voter participation increased.

But we were still under the radar. The power people would laugh and point, but didn't really take us seriously. Until Obama won the NC Electoral College votes. Since then, 10s of millions of dollars have been spent in this state to role back all the great strides we made. Democrats lost the state house in 2010 and as a result, we were brutally gerrymandered by the GOP to the point where we don't really have democracy in this state any more. Because sorry, when 51% of the citizens vote for a Democratic statehouse rep, but the GOP comes out with a veto-proof majority, something STINKS. My vote was still STOLEN, but they did it "legally" with fucking math and lawyers. Since almost no one pays attention to white criminals in suits, most voters don't even see that it happened.

Anyhoo.... I am blathering on.... Moral Monday, what I refer to as the Fusion Party now, is one of my most favorite topics. But this is what I want to say about our country's racist history. YES, it is bad, but there are rich people out there who spend million and millions to MAKE SURE it stays bad. In NC at least, the people always come back around to some sort of people's coalition group that includes black and white. It has been happening here, off and on, since reconstruction. So it seems like The People bend history toward justice periodically, but they through a combination of our own inattention and power the very rich exert over the system, we get bent back

Anyone who is really interested in the Moral Monday movement and fusion politics should take a look at Rev. Dr. Barber's book on the topic. I am about 2/3rds through. Since it is my state and I was there for some of the grassroots work, of course I love it. But anyone with a serious interest in progressive activism should take a look.

[SusanCalvin]

71. See, this is why I love this group.

It is a continuing education.

[wildeyed]

72. Glad you liked it!

I felt like it was too long for a message board, but I can't restrain myself on this particular topic.

[SusanCalvin]

74. Well, I read all of it!

[JustAnotherGen]

78. I will read it

And thank you for this background.

When people try to say -voting rights aren't a big deal - I say:

Then why did Eric Holder focus on it

AND

Pennsylvania 2012 - It was not your Father's Jim Crow


AND

NC Moral Mondays

I will see if I can download Dr. barber's book today!

[Number23]

82. An AMAZING post!! Darn you, I'm supposed to be cooking breakfast!

[wildeyed]

85. BREAKFAST?

Where do you live? Dinner soon and FOOTBALL where I am

But I understand. The Coates/Reparations/DuBois/Hardy/all the other awesome thread made me late to work the other day..... I burned soup another time recently. That is not easy.... This forum has been fantastic recently.

I hope you and AnotherGen (and anyone else who is interested) will let me know your thoughts if you get around to reading the book. What we were doing at the time seemed great, but I didn't see the larger implications. But put it together with what #BlackLivesMatter is accomplishing, and I see a line forward that makes me hopeful. Curious if others see that, or if I am being hopelessly optimistic.

[Number23]

86. The grits are burned half to death and my 9-year old is glaring at me

This forum is going to turn me into a HORRIBLE mother.

I'm going to have to re-read your post again there was so much stuff to get through. You guys should start a thread on recommended readings! Recursion had some GREAT ones a few days ago and 1SBM and JAG are like the AA Group librarians, always suggesting amazing things.

[wildeyed]

88. So many books, so little time.

I am also part way through Invisible Man. If I get off the DU, I might finish the Barber book tonight, too.

[scarletwoman]

87. Fabulous post! I've read every word of it twice.

Thank you so much for the education! A lot of food for thought...

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

95. PREACH!!!

[SusanCalvin]

4. I'm afraid Mr. Capehart may be right.

I like him and am interested in what he has to say, anyway.

From what I've heard here, I'm no fan of Dr. West. I say this as (still, in spite of some of his "fans&quot a Bernie supporter.

[Empowerer]

5. Thanks for the thoughtful response Susan

I like Bernie Sanders, but his loudest fans are doing him disservice. It's nice when his decent, rational supporters (who I'm sure represent the majority of his supporters but get drowned out by noise and vitriol of the "fans&quot actually break through and can be heard. I hope to read more of what you think.

[BlueMTexpat]

12. +1 eom

[JustAnotherGen]

66. I wish you posted back here

More! Much like randy and steve - I can "hear" your thoughts on Sanders the Candidate.

[SusanCalvin]

70. Awwww, thanks!

I'm afraid I don't have that many original thoughts - I'm mostly just a listener and sometimes reacter.... ;->

[FrenchieCat]

6. Cornel West is no longer what he may have been a decade ago for many in the Black community

Well, the ones that vote, anyways! and that is the truth!

Capehart is correct on this!

[Number23]

45. Am I seeing this right??!! Are you really here???!

[FrenchieCat]

62. ha ha!

yep...
All refreshed and ready to go!

[Number23]

81. You are a DU veteran but if I can give you some advice

Ignore the shit out of GDP and the "black people say" crap from there. Because 9 time out of 9, the "black people say" crap is the result of some white libertarian, I mean "liberal" scouring the Internet trying to find something that a black person says that they agree with -- no matter how ignorant or unhinged -- even if it goes 487% against what the vast majority of black folks are saying on an issue.

My rule of thumb, I only respond to posts about "black people say" in GDP ONLY when they are posted by a black poster. It's spared me a ton of grief although I have to admit, I seldom bust a gut laughing more than I do at the "black people say" posts breathlessly posted by white people who never seem to give the first shit about what black people say or do unless it aligns perfectly with what they already believe.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

96. EXACTLY!!!!

[1StrongBlackMan]

101. +1,000 and then some. n/t

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

97. YAY!!! FrenchieCat ***bowing down****

[FrenchieCat]

111. Hya!

[JustAnotherGen]

8. Cornel West is no longer relevant

Substantial Scholar - yes. But - he's never translated it into legislation. He's made a lot of money from an unjust system

[randys1]

23. Cornel is an important voice, sometimes I dont like what he says or the way

he says it, but I want him around as long as possible.

I wont judge his critiques of Obama, I havent walked in his shoes.

I hated when he called him that word, but I realize there is a history there (not between them but in general) that I cant relate to.

Cornel is a bright bright bright man.

[Empowerer]

24. My point is that the fact that you like West is irrelevant. You are already on the team

But the black voters whose support Sanders is still trying to earn don't feel him and certainly haven't responded to him in a positive way that has led them to support Sanders.

Among other things, most blacks deeply and viscerally resent anyone attacking President Obama, especially in the ugly ways that West has. And they're not impressed with his intelligence since intelligence is not a foreign concept in our community - we are surrounded by brilliant black women and men, so West is not all that exceptional.

[randys1]

28. My points have nothing to do with politics, and I should have made that clear.

I realize that is big part of who he is, but just in general he is an important voice, but yes what he said about Obama was horrid.

[JustAnotherGen]

35. He doesn't rub shoulders randy

You should see the house he lived in - in top 3% Princeton.

He's made a lot of money off of black people being down.

When someone in NJ says Rise Up -Booker - he no likely that.

[randys1]

43. Booker or West?

[JustAnotherGen]

63. West

Booker - rubs shoulders. He had no choice as the Mayor of Newark. I just checked -

Sanders is still not on the ballot in NJ for the June Primary.

ETA - He didn't endorse or come out for Bonnie Watson Coleman. Maybe he didn't realize he was going to endorse Sanders - he probably did not. Sanders wasn't running then.

However - that tells me all I need to know. Look at the Demographics of her district.

[wildeyed]

27. What is the deal with Cornell West these days?

I am not familiar with his actual intellectual work, only his status as a public figure. Does he still do academic work or is he mostly a pundit now?

I recently acquired a copy of Black Prophetic Fire. I flipped to the last chapter on the "Age of Obama", and yeah, it seems rather heavy on political rhetoric. But I guess I need to read the entire book to make a real judgment. Some of the other parts look interesting.

[highprincipleswork]

9. It's not lost on me. I've been told by Black colleagues the same for months now.

I do believe that Bernie's heart is in the right place, as do some prominent African American politicians, leaders, celebrities. I do believe he is the one who will fight hardest for change. But I surely wish he would get more Nina Turners out there and less Cornel Wests. Unless of course there is something not convincing and inclusive about Nina Turner.

It really doesn't seem that hard, and wish it would get high-octaned right now!

The POC community deserves to have their vote earned, through increased visits to their communities and through personal communications and collaborations with people they know and trust. I know the Sanders campaign has done this, even while busy trying to win the very important first states, but they certainly can't do this too much.

That's the kind of marching that is called for right now.

[Empowerer]

19. I agree with you about the need to earn support

And I like Nina Turner immensely.

[BlueMTexpat]

11. This ...

The campaign and its supporters seem to be more about satisfying themselves than in reaching out to bring others in. It has the atmosphere of a clique, a "cool kids club" that is all about reinforcing how cool and correct the current members are. If you're not one of them, you are an "other." And if you don't jump on board immediately and wholeheartedly, you are promptly dismissed and subsequently dealt with only as a subject of derision and contempt. I have seen very little effort to find out what those who not already in the camp think or want. Instead we're all told what we SHOULD want, who we SHOULD support, who we SHOULDN'T support, why we're crazy to do otherwise and if we don't agree, WE are the problem because we just don't get it. If we don't "FEEL THE BERN," it's our loss, not the campaign's. And then with a "Screw you - we don't need you anyway" kiss-off, they turn back inward to talk amongst themselves, telling one another how great Bernie is, how enlightened they are and how awful and clueless everyone else is.

I am not AA and I still have exactly this impression. I can only imagine how much more many AAs may have it.

[SusanCalvin]

13. My take exactly.

I've lost count of how many times I've objected to people being told how to feel. That's never going to work. It hasn't chased me off yet, but it did cause me to change my avatar.

[BlueMTexpat]

15. Thanks for your comments, Susan.

This forum is a great one, with some of the best discussions anywhere on DU - regardless of whichever candidate we support.

I come here when I need a breath of fresh air.

[steve2470]

18. some of my fellow Sanders supporters are totally tone deaf when it comes to the AA community

They (the some I'm referring to) have told you and other PoC how to vote and how to feel and it's exactly the wrong way to approach things.

[steve2470]

14. Despite being a Sanders supporter, I think he's blown it overall with his outreach strategy

Using Dr. West is one of the failures. He also should have been campaigning heavily in AA communities from day one. It's probably too late or almost too late now. Because of the failures, I think he's going to lose the primaries.

off-topic, but this sunk like a stone in GDP (big surprise NOT):

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511045696

Sen. Bernie Sanders Speaks to the Issues (Ebony magazine interview)

http://www.ebony.com/news-views/sen-bernie-sanders-interview-jamilah-lemieux#ixzz3xzEKAubK

Democratic presidential candidate Senator Bernie Sanders has surprised many pundits as of late (and, perhaps, the leadership of the Democratic Party), entering the 2016 primary and caucus season much closer to former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton in the polls than some may have predicted. A self-defined "democratic socialist," he has been touted as an alternative to what he has called Secretary Clinton's "establishment"-approved approach. Here in a two-part video, Sen. Sanders speaks with EBONY Magazine's Senior Editor Jamilah Lemieux on his candidacy and why he believes he deserves your vote.

In Part 1, Sen. Sanders talks about critics of his campaign, about the African American community's relationship with the Democratic Party, differences between himself and Hillary Clinton, and wealth inequality.

In Part 2, Sen. Sanders addresses the rise of Donald Trump in politics, the threat of gun violence, the ironies of who is and is not called a "terrorist," and racial attitudes in America.

Read the full interview with Sen. Bernie Sanders in the upcoming March issue of EBONY Magazine. Also, check out EBONY.com's October 2015 interview with him.


videos at link, of course

[BlueMTexpat]

16. Thanks for the link, steve. eom

[steve2470]

17. my pleasure, BlueMTexpat! nt

[Empowerer]

20. Thanks

This interview is a perfect example of what you're talking about, Steve. It's a good one, but it's a day late and a dollar short. This should have been done months ago. While it is possible that the campaign tried to get this earlier, knowing how the media in general and the black press in particular work, I suspect that EBONY tried to get a Sanders interview and the campaign did not make him available until recently - since an interview with a presidential candidate is a "get" that EBONY surely would not have pushed off if it had been offered. Perhaps the campaign didn't fully recognize the value of EBONY magazine in the black community - many people outside of the community don't grasp the tremendous influence of EBONY and JET.

If I'm correct, this is indicative of the problem that you and I are talking about. The outreach to the black community seems to have been tailored around how the campaign insiders tend to think, not how their intended audience operates. While EBONY magazine is available online, there's a strong tradition and culture of subscribing to the print version and reading and sharing the hard copy - often for months after it originally runs. A running joke among my family concerns the stack of EBONYs and JETs on every black grandmother's coffee table and in the basket in her bathroom, that we binge read whenever we visit. And, of course, there's also the big stack in every black barbershop and beauty salon. You can't expect to reach a broad swath of the black community by simply doing an interview that shows up on EBONY.com a couple of months before the primary.

[steve2470]

21. yes I wasn't aware of the huge importance of the print edition but it makes perfect sense!

The people in his campaign have failed marketing 101: you market an HONEST Presidential candidate to the correct audiences. They focused way too much on the white community and he's going to lose as a result. It's a really braindead mistake for anyone who knows anything about the Democratic Party. Hell, I'm never been in a campaign and I KNOW it! A Republican candidate can get away with ignoring the African-American vote more or less, with some token speeches here and there, but a Democratic candidate ?????

He's going to lose. I'll be voting for Secretary Clinton in the General Election. If he wins the primaries overall, to be frank, I'll be shocked.

[JustAnotherGen]

36. Shhhh

I still subscribe to Ebony.

[Number23]

47. People keep -- RIGHTFULLY -- talking about how much Clinton sucks as a campaigner

And she does suck. She triple sucks.

But the Sanders campaign will go down in history I believe of being a textbook example of political suckage. And I think adding Cornell West to his campaign will be the peak of that suckage.

That new ad that was he just released that had 4 brown people in and a song that few people under the age of 70 would recognize is just the latest example of the suckage. Even the NY Times damned it with faint praise saying it was the nicest ad they'd seen since Hillary's announcement ad -- almost a year ago.

[steve2470]

50. Yes that ad of his was so tone deaf, so WHITE.....

and yes, so old with the music. If he loses (which I think he will), he has no one but he and his staff to blame.

[Number23]

53. After seeing the denizens of GDP moaning about how they "cried like babies" over that ad, I realized

that ad was doing the ONE thing that Sanders didn't need which was appealing to his already committed and INCREDIBLY limited supporters. He needed something that expanded him to minorities more than anything and that ad was NOT it.

Now there's a post in GDP where somebody has actually COUNTED the number of times "minorities" show up in that ad due to the myriad criticism from multiple sources about how white it is. When your ad is so homogeneous that your supporters are actually resorting to time stamping brown faces... holy shit.

If he loses (which I think he will), he has no one but he and his staff to blame.

His staff has failed him in so many ways.

[wildeyed]

69. That ad does not look like America.

Some people need to get out more.

[Empowerer]

75. It looks like some people's fantasy of America

Kind of like a Woody Allen movie . . .

[wildeyed]

105. There were more POC in an ad I saw for NASCAR

last night.

[uponit7771]

89. We'll be blamed if he's not the dem candidate...

[Number23]

107. They started blaming us the second our response to being told for the thousandth time that he

"marched with MLK" was "that's nice. And...?????""

[greatauntoftriplets]

94. I thought that commercial should have been called Vermont.

It seemed heavy on rural scenes, something that is difficult for me (and a majority of Americans) can't really relate to. As for the music (and I'm under 70), if he ever does an ad on racial injustice, the song should be "The Sounds of Silence", IMO.

[Number23]

106. Ka-pow!!

if he ever does an ad on racial injustice, the song should be "The Sounds of Silence", IMO.

Holy moly!!

[Number23]

114. Steve, have you seen the 2nd version of his ad? He's responded to the LOUD criticism that the first

one was too old and too white.

'Bernie Heard the Criticism. His New Ad Is Optimistic, Inspiring—and Diverse.'
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/01/26/bernie_sanders_new_ad_is_optimistic_and_diverse.html

What do you think?

[steve2470]

115. it's much much better than the old one

It's diverse and optimistic. As long as he keeps doing ads like that, he will do better.

[Number23]

116. I agree. Wonder if the denizens of GDP will "bawl like babies" over this one?

I haven't even seen anyone there discussing this new ad. How surprising.

[steve2470]

117. yea how surprising NOT

So many in GDP have no clue. There was a thread in there that was talking about Coates, and I decided not to make an OP out of it because it would drag in all the clueless. We don't need them in here.

[randys1]

118. I love that ad (the new one), that is the Bernie I want to feel good about, if certain people would

just stop acting like





....

you know

[Empowerer]

58. The ad is consistent with the point I keep making about the focus of the Sanders campaign

It seems to be geared toward its existing supporters, not toward people they need to attract. Sanders supporters are practically in tears, waxing rhapsodic about how wonderful the ad is and it seems to be targeted toward people who already love him. I don't see the value it brings to drawing in people who aren't already enamored of him.

[Number23]

59. I watched that ad twice and it didn't move me in the least.

And I said something along the lines of "I don't get what's supposed to be so moving about this ad" and got a handful of folks tremblingly waxing poetic about how "it's about all of us" and how it's about "coming together to make America great."

So as you can see, it's in complete contrast to EVERY SINGLE OTHER political ad EVER created in the total history of political ads. You know, all those millions of ads that say "Screw America! Tell your community to fuck off! You're in this all alone so VOTE FOR ME!!11"

Yeah, I must have missed them all too...

[Empowerer]

60. LOL!

But don't you know - Bernie Sanders and his supporters INVENTED politics. They are doing and saying things that have never been done or said - or even thought about - before. It's a good thing they've come along to show the rest of us how it should be done, because, otherwise, without them, we'd be lost.

I just responded to a post claiming that Sanders is "our path to a real civilization." They have no idea how ineffective this is for bringing in anyone who is not already with them.

[femmedem]

79. This white woman cringed at the whiteness of the ad.

I think that was a mistake, even though it is running in white Iowa. Everything is national now with the internet.

But I also understand why he would release an ad now that is specifically aimed at his supporters. In Iowa, his campaign is moving out of the persuasion phase and into the GOTV phase, so it makes sense to run an emotional ad emphasizing the enthusiasm around his campaign, firing up his base so they make the effort to caucus.

Btw, I really enjoy your posts. Thought provoking and civil. Thanks.

[Empowerer]

80. Thanks!

I try.

[JustAnotherGen]

67. I went and looked for it and watched it twice

In NJ - we don't see these because we are so late in the process.

It's a good ad - but I only know the music because my mom is of that era and I grew up listening to it. So fair point on "knowing it".

What I didn't see - as they are looking for America - is how the Sanders Administration would empower my small community to do what it needs to do to move forward?

https://martinomalley.com/policy/american-cities-and-communities/

If you dig into old posts of mine from this summer (you don't have to but anyone reading this can) a large part of O'Malley's appeal is his hands off approach if you are doing the right things. I don't need to take resources from Newark, Camden, Elizabeth, Jersey City - I can do it in this tiny borough and give a hand up to those on the coast and across the bridge from Philly.

I've accepted that as long as I live here we will always have Republican representing us in the House. This a fact. It's a legacy seat and is only shared by a few families with a lot of clout. What I can't accept is being stuck with ths jackass until he dies, Coleman losing her seat (Princeton area) and Menendez and Booker holding on for dear life. This ad won't help us down ballot.

Just watched it a fourth time - if there is still a battle going on in June - this can't be shown. Or he needs to get a Jersey band/artists music in there and show a woman (black or Latina) getting up in the dark and making several bus transfers to get to her suburban $12 an hour job - now would be a good time to get footage. The roads and public transport are open tomorrow regardless of the three feet of snow.

People commuting long distances plays very well in this state.

[SusanCalvin]

73. Yep.

You are, of course, right. If it doesn't bring in new people and/or help down ballot, it's a waste of money. Thanks for giving me a general principle I can remember.

Hey, I found a smilie for "getting an education"!

[Number23]

83. Like I said in the thread on it, it's a good ad in that it is unabashedly pro-Sanders and not anti-

anything. And I think that's great.

But it didn't move me in the least and I was struck by how white it was and how old the music sounded and I'm no spring chicken my damn self. So in that regard, I think it doesn't come close to doing what it's supposed to do.

[heaven05]

25. thank you

I totally agree about Dr. West.

[Number23]

48. heaven!!!!

[wildeyed]

29. Nailed it.

"The campaign and its supporters seem to be more about satisfying themselves than in reaching out to bring others in. It has the atmosphere of a clique, a "cool kids club" that is all about reinforcing how cool and correct the current members are. If you're not one of them, you are an "other." And if you don't jump on board immediately and wholeheartedly, you are promptly dismissed and subsequently dealt with only as a subject of derision and contempt."

This is what I saw about the supporters IMMEDIATELY. I had been epically busy and stressed with a huge project at work, so I didn't start looking at the candidates seriously until mid-summer. I came here and my head exploded right out of the gate when I read a thread about how you could not be progressive if you did not wholeheartedly and immediately support Bernie Sanders.

I had not yet decided who I was going to back, but I knew at least a dozen strong, progressive activist who supported Clinton wholeheartedly in 2008. I cannot even tell you the level of respect I have for these people and what they accomplish. So it brought tears of anger and frustration to my eyes to read that because you CANNOT talk that way about people like that, particularly if your "activism" consists or Twitter spamming and clicking online polls. And it is also divisive. I hate to see progressives dividing themselves over something as unimportant as a label. Because while we do that, the real enemy gets stronger.

And they didn't stop there. Historically, Black Americans are often left out of liberal entitlement programs. This is a simple fact. But when Sanders or his supporters were pressed on this, by people who clearly WANTED to support him but simply needed some clarification or assurance that it wouldn't happen with his administration, they were often attacked instead. Not a good way to win hearts and minds.... At first, I would literally rewrite their OPs and responses to be more persuasive, hoping I could maybe teach them to be better campaigners. No success

And now PP, NARAL and HRC are also under attack. Ick.

Initially, the strategy seemed to work for them, making their in-group even more enthusiastic and aggressive. But in the end, winning the Democratic Primary (and GE) is about UNIFYING different groups and building a coalition. To do that, you have to listen and treat other groups respectfully. Clearly not happening with this lot.

[Empowerer]

30. Exactly - you explained this beautifully

I really hope that Sanders supporters that we don't often hear from online - perhaps because they've been shut down by their more vociferous brothers and sisters and have learned not to challenge them - are reading this and encouraged to speak up.

[wildeyed]

32. Yes.

Some do. They get shouted down too. The True Believers demand complete compliance to their ideology and views. I swear there are a couple who post in the Clinton forum just for the peace.

[The Polack MSgt]

31. I saw Dr. West on several TV shows...

Over the years and he seemed to have been accorded the role of Black American intellectual on Meet the Press and other shows of that type.

Sometimes I agreed with him sometimes not. He was interesting and played the tv "debate" game really well - but - He was just another man selling an agenda as far as I could tell.

BTW - My favorite shows were when someone would screw up and book Chuck D. He would get loose and wreck their clueless ass assumptions. SO AWESOME! I miss the 90s. Unfortunately Chuck was seldom invited back.

Any way, I noticed that Dr. West became more and more hostile to the President and never knew why exactly. I quit listening to him because attacks against my favorite politician of all time didn't seem more believable just because they came from a black man.

I'm an old fashioned pro labor democrat from the coal mine hills of SW Pennsylvania. I have baggage regarding race that I can only hope to identify and correct in myself. So I never went on a rant (here or IRL) about Dr West's statements about the President - seriously not my place.
I did find it odd that he got such a prominent role in Bernie's campaign. I asked a good friend of mine (also a retired MSgt) who stays current on politics and he summarized it like this "Man fuck Cornell West, he expected the President to kiss his ass and got mad when it didn't happen"

I've never talked to any Back folks who don't admire President Obama - even the Republicans. Giving Dr West a prominent role seems to be a mistake. Not just with AA voters but with old school Dems as well

[Empowerer]

33. Your post made me laugh, smile AND think! :-)

Your evolving take on Dr. West is similar to mine. And your friend's quote is SO dead on, I think I actually heard his voice! That certainly is a sentiment of many.

I was particularly touched by your comment about the baggage you're working on. We ALL have baggage in this area. Unfortunately, people often assume that if they acknowledge it or, God forbid, point out someone else's baggage, that it means we are calling someone a racist or admitting to being one ourselves. That's just not true.

Race in America is a loaded, complicated, painful thing and it can't be resolved with simplistic, "I never had slaves, so why am I getting blamed," or "STOP CALLING ME A RACIST!" platitudes. We are all prejudiced to some degree and can all do better. That does not mean we are racists. But racism and bias and the other baggage that comes along with it is so deeply ingrained in the DNA of this country and, as a result, in us, that we all have to own it and work to do better.

But a big problem I've been seeing in these discussions is the assumption that one is either a racist or pure as the driven snow and anyone who suggests that someone can do better - for example, pointing out that Bernie Sanders could do a better job in reaching out to and connecting with the black community - is attacked by some who insist they are accusing them of being racist, and then the conversation shuts down. It's troubling and it's unfortunate.

So, I really appreciate your comments and have confidence that whatever it is you're working on, you're going to be fine because you're being honest and open and really trying to find a way forward.

I look forward to hearing more of your thoughts on this and other topics!

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

100. Before 2007, Cornel West was seldom on mainstream talk shows. For that matter, neither was

Bernie Sanders. But back to West: most people outside of black intelligensia or in academic circles did not know this guy, and he would NEVER be invited to a show like Meet the Press. Once he started vocally attacking President Obama, he's on MTP and other Sunday morning commentary shows nearly every few months. Faux News has even invited him on their programming, where he "shucks and jives" for the racists over there---all because he's anti-Obama. Now all of the sudden, those people at Faux want Cornel West on their shows all the time, simply to use a black face to attack President Obama from the left. That's what is majorly disturbing about West and why he's viewed as a joke in many black communities now. He and his friend, Tavis Smiley, though Tavis tends to be a bit tempered in his approach. Few people outside of the black community knew who Tavis Smiley was, either.

That's why so many in the black community are cynical about the white liberals that now drag Cornel West onstage and use him, too. He's been a pawn for both the Left and the Right--mostly to attack the president. Black people see right through it. So now Sanders bringing Cornel West onstage is backfiring because we all know who Cornel West is and how he rolls. And no one appreciates his attacks on the president. However we black folk may have disagreed with the president, or may be disappointed in some of his decisions and policies, we still admire and revere the president---and we are very upset at how he has been treated over the last 8 years. Hillary learned this, too, and that's why it seems that she is very careful about how she addresses issues pertaining to the president. She knows that many of us have not forgotten her campaign's racist rhetoric during the 2008 primaries, either.

[Empowerer]

104. +1

You always make it plain. Thanks!

[Number23]

108. + a freaking billion to every single word of this post

Perfectly, well said.

[The Polack MSgt]

110. Thank you for the reply

The first TV memory I have of Dr West he was discussing "Race Matters" - Probably not on meet the press - Meet the Press is kinda my short hand for all the group talking head shows.

May have been on PBS or C-span, I do know it was mid 90s. He was an intermittent guest no question but was a recognizable face and name in the late 90's through GWB's presidency.

But the market for Black people slamming President Obama on TV has been booming since before the 1st inauguration - So he's pretty famous nowadays

[Number23]

49. Black folks have said this time and again ever since Sanders made the bewildering -- and stupid

decision to add West to his campaign.

And of course, we were shouted down by white "liberals" that know better than us on everything, including apparently, our own minds, families and communities.

[underthematrix]

52. Bitter white folks love their Cornel West who has spent seven years spewing his

hateful ignorant vitriol at the first African American President. Cornel is a piece of shit.

[Gothmog]

77. New Poll Shows ‘Surging’ Sanders Losing Ground With the Voter Group He Needs Most

And Sanders is still not polling well with African American or Latino voters and so maybe he needs to change what he is doing http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/01/poll-sanders-gains-stop-short-of-minorities.html#

Team Sanders is certainly focused on the problem, with a variety of campaign efforts focused on minority voters in the works. The talking points they are putting out there, however, are less than convincing, as I learned as a guest on the public radio show "To the Point" yesterday, when I heard a Sanders supporter argue that an Iowa win would greatly boost Bernie's African-American support just like it did for Obama in South Carolina in 2008. The idea that Sanders's potential to win the black vote in South Carolina is analogous to that of the first African-American president does not pass the laugh test. Still, any early-state win for Sanders, even in exceptionally honkified Iowa and New Hampshire, will likely create some sort of generalized bounce. The question is how high, and how loyal minority voters prove to be to Hillary Clinton, her husband, and her implicit ally Barack Obama. It's worth remembering that she defeated Barack Obama handily among Latinos in 2008, and that Bill Clinton enjoyed robust support in both communities.

Monmouth University has a new national poll out that casts some fascinating, if very preliminary, light on this subject. Compared to its poll in December, Monmouth shows Sanders making pretty big gains: Clinton was up 59-to-26 last month, and only 52-to-37 now. But among black and Latino voters, Clinton has actually expanded her lead from 61-to-18 to 71-to-21. In other words, a legitimate "Sanders surge" nationally has coincided with a deterioration of his standing with the voters he will most need for a breakthrough after the first two contests of the primary season.

Sanders is actually losing ground with African American voters and Sanders' current tactics are not evidently working.

Sanders will not be the nominee unless he can expand his base of supporters. Super Tuesday will be a long day for Sanders. Vermont is one of the last states with 90+% white voting populations

[comradebillyboy]

109. Now that was an interesting read. It certainly goes counter to

the narrative all the pundits pushing about how much trouble Hillary is in. Thanks for the link.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

90. This right here...

Dr. West is much more popular with white liberals than he is with African Americans who generally (with some exceptions, of course, since we don't ALL think alike) believe that, while he was once a substantial scholar he has deteriorated into a rather silly, shallow and petty figure. I suspect that many white folks think he's wonderful because they don't know too many black people and believe that he is unusually brilliant; however, black folk know all manner of brilliant people of color, so we're not all that impressed with Dr. West's erudite sounding but hollow pontificating.

...and this from a man I used to worship in scholarly circles. The tragedy of Dr. Cornel West is that his crusade seems to be more about him and now his disdain for and revenge directed at President Obama. Am I suggesting that West's endorsement of Sanders is insincere? Does a bird have wings? The guy is petty.

Back in 2008, both West and Tavis Smiley fawned over Hillary Clinton who is anything but Bernie Sanders. Both men endorsed her after being supposedly snubbed by Obama. Now that Hillary has aligned with President Obama, Sanders is West's guy. These men have ZERO credibility in my book, and Cornel West--a brilliant scholar who should know better--has done nothing but alienated himself from a large segment of the black American population (in my view). He has become a caricature and a joke.

And finally, my opinion is that many white liberals embrace Cornel West, having disdain for Obama and exploiting the fact that West is black (therefore, Obama is wrong) and using that to justify their attacks on the president. Any time a black person doesn't agree with the white liberal establishment and doesn't toe the white liberal line, they drag Cornel West out like a rag doll. What's so insulting and infuriating about that is the fact that before 2008, many of these white liberals who have suddenly embraced Dr. West either didn't know shit about him or his work; or, even if they knew about him, didn't care until he could be conveniently used to get us "darkies" in line with their so-called liberal agenda.

Capehart is spot on, and sadly either Dr. West doesn't care that he's being exploited or is massively naive.

Not everyone is your brother/sister in the truest meaning of that, so Dr. West should take care to stop calling everyone that.

[Empowerer]

91. Simply perfect explanation

Thank you

[heaven05]

99. I have always had

Mixed feelings about his "leadership" position in my life. He does not have a dependable track record in REALLY appealing to a large cross section of the AA community. His attacks on our POTUS moved me from the mixed column to firm and sure. He does NOT represent me.

[FrenchieCat]

112. Cornel West used to come to my Church in Oakland often enough to speak prior to President Obama....

But not since.....

He is someone that preaches and points his finger from his Ivory Tower, which is easy to do.

He and Tavis make their money from entities like Princeton and (Tavis), from Corporate sponsors,
and then thumb their nose of anyone else who does!

[JustAnotherGen]

113. Don't forget Harvard

The Summers dispute and the rough estimate is that the year prior to coming to Princeton his $12k per engagement speaking fee was well utilized.