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Empowerer

(3,900 posts)
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 10:44 PM Jan 2016

Coates: "Bernie Sanders and the Liberal Imagination"

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/01/bernie-sanders-liberal-imagination/425022/

Last week I critiqued Bernie Sanders for dismissing reparations specifically, and for offering up a series of moderate anti-racist solutions, in general. Some felt it was unfair to single out Sanders given that, on reparations, Sanders’s chief opponent Hillary Clinton holds the same position. This argument proposes that we abandon the convention of judging our candidates by their chosen name:

When a candidate points to high unemployment among black youth, as well as high incarceration rates, and then dubs himself a radical, it seems prudent to ask what radical anti-racist policies that candidate actually embraces. Hillary Clinton has no interest in being labeled radical, left-wing, or even liberal. Thus announcing that Clinton doesn’t support reparations is akin to announcing that Ted Cruz doesn’t support a woman’s right to choose. The position is certainly wrong. But it is hardly a surprise, and doesn't run counter to the candidate’s chosen name.

What candidates name themselves is generally believed to be important. Many Sanders supporters, for instance, correctly point out that Clinton handprints are all over America’s sprawling carceral state. I agree with them and have said so at length. Voters, and black voters particularly, should never forget that Bill Clinton passed arguably the most immoral “anti-crime” bill in American history, and that Hillary Clinton aided its passage through her invocation of the super-predator myth. A defense of Clinton rooted in the claim that “Jeb Bush held the same position” would not be exculpatory. (“Law and order conservative embraces law and order” would surprise no one.) That is because the anger over the Clintons’ actions isn’t simply based on their having been wrong, but on their craven embrace of law and order Republicanism in the Democratic Party’s name.

One does not find anything as damaging as the carceral state in the Sanders platform, but the dissonance between name and action is the same. Sanders’s basic approach is to ameliorate the effects of racism through broad, mostly class-based policies—doubling the minimum wage, offering single-payer health-care, delivering free higher education. This is the same “A rising tide lifts all boats” thinking that has dominated Democratic anti-racist policy for a generation. Sanders proposes to intensify this approach. But Sanders’s actual approach is really no different than President Obama’s. I have repeatedly stated my problem with the “rising tide” philosophy when embraced by Obama and liberals in general. (See here, here, here, and here.) Again, briefly, treating a racist injury solely with class-based remedies is like treating a gun-shot wound solely with bandages. The bandages help, but they will not suffice.
43 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Coates: "Bernie Sanders and the Liberal Imagination" (Original Post) Empowerer Jan 2016 OP
so he's wrong twice. ypsfonos Jan 2016 #1
He's not wrong. n/t snpsmom Jan 2016 #2
Do you mean Sanders or Coates is wrong twice? brush Jan 2016 #6
agreed snpsmom Jan 2016 #11
I don't think this article is a negative against Sanders JustAnotherGen Jan 2016 #15
you're correct about Senator Sanders nt steve2470 Jan 2016 #29
he's not wrong nt steve2470 Jan 2016 #28
So liberals are the only group that one should expect or demand fairness from? And why is that? Schema Thing Jan 2016 #3
Ummm - because liberals claim that they are all about fairness and equality? Empowerer Jan 2016 #12
If they are in the Democratic Party - yes JustAnotherGen Jan 2016 #13
Yes! brer cat Jan 2016 #16
I agree, been a registered Democrat since 1976 nt steve2470 Jan 2016 #24
I... really don't even understand what this post is even supposed to mean Number23 Jan 2016 #17
aren't liberals the ones that support reparations ? JI7 Jan 2016 #21
You seriously think conservatives are going to be for fairness to African-Americans ? steve2470 Jan 2016 #25
What? gollygee Jan 2016 #32
Have you been asleep for several decades? Starry Messenger Jan 2016 #40
I completely agree Kalidurga Jan 2016 #4
The measures you note are good, but they don't go far enough Empowerer Jan 2016 #8
I agree with that too Kalidurga Jan 2016 #19
I agree also... mountain grammy Jan 2016 #9
This is very interesting and not, I think, anti-Bernie. SusanCalvin Jan 2016 #5
Plus 100 JustAnotherGen Jan 2016 #14
you are correct, the problem is many so called Sanders supporters turn any issue into being about JI7 Jan 2016 #20
If you are really serious about schools wilt the stilt Jan 2016 #7
I'm in favor of year-round schools. SusanCalvin Jan 2016 #10
I want everyone to have 10 weeks vacation a year, paid. Dont you? randys1 Jan 2016 #33
K&R for the amazing discussion Number23 Jan 2016 #18
You have the best gifs! betsuni Jan 2016 #22
That gif seemed ENTIRELY appropriate for that quote! Number23 Jan 2016 #23
yep, everyone needs to read your highlighting of his words! nt steve2470 Jan 2016 #26
Donald Trump's Support is very Clear it is JI7 Jan 2016 #27
Did you miss the other day where he opined he could shoot someone, cold blood, on 5th ave randys1 Jan 2016 #34
Reverse it all and we would be paying white people reparations without interruption or randys1 Jan 2016 #35
It IS interesting how heroin has become a national crisis to be treated as a health issue, not a Empowerer Jan 2016 #36
It is racist and white privilege is what it is. I say take the attention it is getting and use randys1 Jan 2016 #37
We see this across many spectrums Empowerer Jan 2016 #38
Best post I am going to see on the internet for weeks, maybe months. randys1 Jan 2016 #39
Damn good points, randy. And none of it will come as any surprise to anyone who's watched this Number23 Jan 2016 #41
Heroin will sink me JustAnotherGen Jan 2016 #42
I have to agree with him. I didn't think he meant to demonize Sanders femmedem Jan 2016 #30
Paul Krugman is getting the same response JI7 Jan 2016 #31
Love this guy. K&R n/t OneGrassRoot Jan 2016 #43

brush

(53,787 posts)
6. Do you mean Sanders or Coates is wrong twice?
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 11:23 PM
Jan 2016

IMO Coates is right on. I'm voting for Sanders but I think his response on reparations was, unfortunately, safe and calculated to not alienate voters.

JustAnotherGen

(31,828 posts)
15. I don't think this article is a negative against Sanders
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 12:05 AM
Jan 2016

I think it's a negatives against the party as a whole.

Schema Thing

(10,283 posts)
3. So liberals are the only group that one should expect or demand fairness from? And why is that?
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 11:10 PM
Jan 2016


He's doubling down on wrongness.

Empowerer

(3,900 posts)
12. Ummm - because liberals claim that they are all about fairness and equality?
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 11:57 PM
Jan 2016

So why not expect and demand it from them. If that's a problem for you, you probably aren't really a liberal.

JustAnotherGen

(31,828 posts)
13. If they are in the Democratic Party - yes
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 12:00 AM
Jan 2016

I don't care about the Republicans. The Greens. Liberal Libertarians. Etc. Etc.

I've been a registered Democratic Party member since 1991.

I've shown up for, voted for, canvassed for, driven people to the polls for and given money to the Democratic Party as well as individual out of state failed candidates (Grimes comes to mind - epic fail.)

I've been more than fair with "liberals" in the Democratic Party.

This black woman right here demands fairness.

I'm with Coates. Even though I'm voting O'Malley - I'm with Coates on this. A lot of us are.


Anyone who thinks the majority of us are not out for our collective "selves" this election is at best naive.

brer cat

(24,576 posts)
16. Yes!
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 12:28 AM
Jan 2016

He speaks truth: "A left radicalism that fails to debate its own standards, that counsels misdirection, that preaches avoidance, is really just a radicalism of convenience."

Number23

(24,544 posts)
17. I... really don't even understand what this post is even supposed to mean
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 12:40 AM
Jan 2016

And am blown away that someone actually typed this on DU.

steve2470

(37,457 posts)
25. You seriously think conservatives are going to be for fairness to African-Americans ?
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 04:36 AM
Jan 2016

Moderates, yes I think there's hope for them.

Incredibly....something post. I'm being kind here.

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
32. What?
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 11:44 AM
Jan 2016

Do you think he should ignore a lack of fairness from Democrats because Republicans are not fair?

Kalidurga

(14,177 posts)
4. I completely agree
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 11:16 PM
Jan 2016

This is a very good take down of Hillary. It's not something I would post in support of her. On the other hand he makes a good case against Bernie not coming out strong enough on dealing with institutional racism. We can only pass laws that could help. We can't make people stop being racist, though I think laws that deal with the issue will push racists even further to the fringes of society.

So, we do away with war against drugs that somehow gives cops the idea they must stop more AA people or POC than white people. We can do away with disparate sentencing. We can make sure that Urban Schools are in good repair and all students get excellent teachers and we can stop taking money from urban centers and funneling it into the suburbs. Speaking of schools we can stop using test scores to take money away from schools that aren't performing as well. We can set up an independent investigative unit for all police shootings. And we can work a whole lot harder on creating human connections.

Empowerer

(3,900 posts)
8. The measures you note are good, but they don't go far enough
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 11:27 PM
Jan 2016

They simply help to make separate a little more equal.

For example, making urban schools better is a good thing, but one of the reasons that urban schools are in the shape they're in is because they are segregated by race, relegated to ghettos created by government and business policy. And, as Charles Hamilton Houston proved 75 years ago, separate can never be equal - because the very separateness is intended to impose a badge of inferiority on African Americans.

This all goes well beyond just investing more money in segregated communities.

Kalidurga

(14,177 posts)
19. I agree with that too
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 12:51 AM
Jan 2016

But we need some starting points. Racism isn't going to go away in a day. I hope that the people who remain racist are relegated to fringe communities and they stop making things difficult for the rest of us.

I am all for busing white students to urban schools btw. My girls look white they went to urban schools for most their early education. I think it was good for them. I think that busing won't be entirely necessary if all schools really are equal. I know that will take decades so in the meantime bus kids in and let their parents raise hell to make the schools better then that goal will be accomplished a lot sooner. I don't know how to pick the kids perhaps a lottery or make it semi voluntary and no I don't care if some white people get pissed off.

mountain grammy

(26,623 posts)
9. I agree also...
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 11:34 PM
Jan 2016

I think Coates' "The Case for Reparations" is one of the best things I've ever read. Here's a link for anyone who might want to read it.
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/06/the-case-for-reparations/361631/

The war on drugs was and is 100% racist. The justice system, school systems, and the banking industry are racist. I think Bernie Sanders will best address these issues.

SusanCalvin

(6,592 posts)
5. This is very interesting and not, I think, anti-Bernie.
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 11:23 PM
Jan 2016

It seems to me, based on the excerpt, that he's arguing for going even further. Works for me.

JustAnotherGen

(31,828 posts)
14. Plus 100
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 12:04 AM
Jan 2016

This is a good analysis of what is going on in the minds of black folks - More and with a plan for implementation.

The Democratic Party's best is no longer good enough.

JI7

(89,252 posts)
20. you are correct, the problem is many so called Sanders supporters turn any issue into being about
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 12:56 AM
Jan 2016

the Primary itself. this is especially true when it comes to race issues. when the point is much bigger than that.

Coates point is a good one and many of the idiots out there complaining about it haven't even read it .

 

wilt the stilt

(4,528 posts)
7. If you are really serious about schools
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 11:26 PM
Jan 2016

you have to pay them the same wage as business and we have to end this 10 weeks off in the summer. If you want to get the top students to go into teaching you have to pay top wages. It will take 10 years to get out the bad teachers. This amount of time off is ridiculous.

SusanCalvin

(6,592 posts)
10. I'm in favor of year-round schools.
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 11:48 PM
Jan 2016

The summer break is a holdover from the family-farm age. Me, I started going to school year-round as soon as I could, in college. (My semi-rural high school did not offer summer school.)

When you consider that the teaching profession makes all other professions possible - yeah, sure, the best and brightest should be recruited and paid accordingly.

I will say that the pedagogical part is either instinctive or acquired only through a lot of hard work, experience, and proper attitude, IMHO.

Number23

(24,544 posts)
18. K&R for the amazing discussion
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 12:50 AM
Jan 2016
We know that in a city like Chicago, the wealthiest black neighborhood has an incarceration rate many times worse than the poorest white neighborhood. This is not a class divide, but a racist divide.


I am so freaking grateful to Coates for spelling it out. Apparently, there are large swaths of people who need it.

And now, in our time, politicians tout their proximity to that same King, and dismiss the completion of his work—the full pursuit of equality—as “divisive.”




The need for so many (although not all) of Sanders’s supporters to deflect the question, to speak of Hillary Clinton instead of directly assessing whether Sanders’s position is consistent, intelligent, and moral hints at something terrible and unsaid.


Ho. Lee. Hell. Coates is SERIOUSLY not playing right now.

JI7

(89,252 posts)
27. Donald Trump's Support is very Clear it is
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 04:39 AM
Jan 2016

Trump is bragging about being wealthy and all the crap he owns. but his biggest supporters are from low income white people . and that's because of his attacks on minorities . that's the only reason he has support.

he even fucked up on the religion thing with the bible quotes showing he knows nothing about it . but his support seems to actually have increased with his attack on minorities.

the "how about Hillary" just shows how out of these people are. their biggest injustice is that Hillary has a lot of money. for minorities it's things like police abuse, equal treatment in housing and hiring .

(can you imagine all the hate mail Coates got from that latest piece) ?



randys1

(16,286 posts)
34. Did you miss the other day where he opined he could shoot someone, cold blood, on 5th ave
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 01:34 PM
Jan 2016

and not lose a single vote?

He was proven correct, by the reaction.

Supporters of Trump dont know, yet, that he actually DESPISES them.

Cant wait for the day he tells them.

randys1

(16,286 posts)
35. Reverse it all and we would be paying white people reparations without interruption or
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 01:41 PM
Jan 2016

debate.

An example of how this works is the sudden "heroin problem".

Since it is cheaper to use heroin when one cant get the Oxycontin one is addicted to because of an injury, and since we have so many people now addicted, most of them white, we have a crisis.

We have politicians like Chris Christie talking about his friend who had his life just torn apart by heroin and painkillers.

Now what did we do when there was a "crisis" of crack cocaine users?

Anybody need a hint?

You see when white people need or want something, they get it.

Empowerer

(3,900 posts)
36. It IS interesting how heroin has become a national crisis to be treated as a health issue, not a
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 02:07 PM
Jan 2016

criminal/moral matter, now that it is disproportionately hurting white kids.

randys1

(16,286 posts)
37. It is racist and white privilege is what it is. I say take the attention it is getting and use
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 02:08 PM
Jan 2016

it to help ALL drug addiction issues including alcohol and crack cocaine.

Empowerer

(3,900 posts)
38. We see this across many spectrums
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 02:15 PM
Jan 2016

High unemployment rate among blacks = black people are lazy and don't want to work
High unemployment rate among whites = national jobs crisis

Objection to photo ID requirements to vote = whiny minorities trying to cheat in elections
Objection to photo ID requirements to board a plane = We the People fighting for God-given rights to fly wherever they want

BLM unarmed, peaceful protest against police brutality = riot by thugs
White militia armed takeover of federal building to protest enforcement of a law = Americans exercising their First Amendment rights

White men walking walking around with guns = Second Amendment freedom
Black child walking around minding his own business = threat = dead

Number23

(24,544 posts)
41. Damn good points, randy. And none of it will come as any surprise to anyone who's watched this
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 03:57 PM
Jan 2016

country's sad and blatant history of race-based discrepancies in health and prison sentencing.

JustAnotherGen

(31,828 posts)
42. Heroin will sink me
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 05:57 AM
Jan 2016

In a local election.

I agree with every cop having the emergency treatment for overdose.

We have an epidemic in NJ - mostly in our wealthiest communities - including mine.

I'll give them that point.

However - some coddled little brat made an active choice to take the drug the first time instead of going to over priced SAT Prep classes, cheer practice, or diving classes for the next family vacation.

I'd prefer to reward the kids in my community who do the right things than coddle and excuse the kid who took heroin because they didn't get their 10th Coach handbag for Christmas. That's who the heroin users are here and I have very little tolerance for spoiled brats.

And I grew up in a similar community with parents who had the same financial resources - but who said they would meet me halfway on my ONE Liz Claiborne handbag when I was 16. It was called babysitting money

I still have that handbag almost 27 years later because it meant something. It's not a litmus test of "value" its a litmus test of values and what my parents taught me -

Wealth is not guaranteed - and a work ethic is earned.

The special snowflakes in this town need a wake up call - and that's a hill I'm willing to lose on.

femmedem

(8,203 posts)
30. I have to agree with him. I didn't think he meant to demonize Sanders
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 07:21 AM
Jan 2016

although the MSM press has attempted to spin it that way, and use Coates' writing to drive a deeper wedge between Sanders and the African American community.

Rather, I think Coates wasn't trying to help or hurt a specific candidate so much as he wanted to raise the visibility of an important issue. In other words, making reparations part of the conversation is more important to him than any election season--just as improving police practices and reforming our criminal justice system is at the center of the BLM movement.

I don't know to what degree Sanders thinks he can't win if he comes out in favor of reparations vs. to what degree he genuinely opposes them. I wish his campaign had gotten back to Coates, and at least acknowledged the lasting effects of the racist housing policies that Coates has written about. If he can't see a path to individual reparations, he could talk about targeted urban investment as a way of making reparations to whole neighborhoods that have suffered as a result of redlining and other discriminatory practices, at least as a first step. He could also propose putting together a panel to study how the AA community has been harmed, and what reparations might look like.

I'm glad that Coates has clarified that he doesn't think Clinton would be better on this issue, but rather, singled out Sanders as a way of showing that even the most liberal Democrats don't quite get it.

JI7

(89,252 posts)
31. Paul Krugman is getting the same response
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 10:45 AM
Jan 2016

Krugman supported Hillary in 2008 also so it does show a difference in how the other side reacted. And I'm sure he got some complaints from Obama supporters back then also but nothing like the hate he is going now.

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