Help me, please. I don't even know what I'm SUPPOSED to think about this

[Number23]

'An upside to the ‘angry black woman’ stereotype?'
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/on-leadership/the-angry-black-woman-is-there-an-upside-to-the-stereotype/2012/02/15/gIQAuz5mHR_story.html

"For centuries, the angry black female has been a pervasive stereotype in the United States. Sadly, this overly simplified opinion may be just as inescapable today as it was during the slave era. A new book by Tulane professor Melissa Harris-Perry, for instance, suggests that anger is still one of the most ubiquitous stereotypes faced by black women in modern society. Pepsi was criticized for further perpetuating this negative perception by depicting a black woman kicking, shoving and punishing her husband for cheating on his diet in a Super Bowl commercial. Even America’s first lady must address the stereotype: In a recent television interview on CBS, Michelle Obama denied the “angry black woman” depiction of herself that emerged in some coverage following the release of The Obamas , a book by Jodi Kantor."

"...But in a recent study I conducted with Robert Livingston and Ella Washington of Northwestern University’s Kellogg School of Management, we found that black women leaders who displayed dominant behavior when interacting with subordinates got more favorable reviews than their white female or black male counterparts who behaved the same way. In fact, black women were evaluated comparably to white male leaders who displayed similarly dominant and assertive behavior." ((Number23 Edit: Say WHAT now??!))

I'm scratching my head on this one. BIG TIME. A DU stalwart and legend in this forum, noiretextatique, wrote a really fantastic OP on DU about how she was disrespected, and (almost deliberately) misunderstood working in corporate America. And there was not a single black woman in that thread that didn't know EXACTLY what she was talking about and didn't have similar experiences.

I personally have had white team members shaking in their boots (sometimes literally) before I even uttered a word based on their preconceived perceptions (aka biases) of how I'm going to behave/perform based solely on my race and gender. The idea that we are now viewed "more favorably" for exhibiting traits that we are STEREOTYPED as possessing (whether we actually possess these traits or not is apparently immaterial) makes about as much sense to me as a winged wombat on a skateboard.

[southernyankeebelle]

1. Wow,who knew. I have worked for all kinds of people. I have had men, white women, black women and

the one thing I found in general was I respected all of them. I have worked in an office where I being a white woman was a minority but I loved all my co-workers who happened to be black. I never looked at their color. My immediate supervisor who I loved was an elder black woman and she was good to us all. She never treated me different then the other girls. Then we got a couple of young white girls in and a middle aged white woman in. Believe me all hell broke loose. The middle aged woman was a complainer about everything. Nothing to do with race. She was unhappy with life but she was unhappy. Our immediate supervisor really tried to be a friend. She was older and kind of understood her. But finally I guess she was unhappy and was able to get another job at another place where she ended up unhappy there. I have to say that was one of the best places I ever worked at. I never saw bad behavior on anyones part. Great group of women to work with and call my friends. When I moved from home and came back to visit I always stopped by to see the ladies. We'd have so much fun yapping our mouths.

[JustAnotherGen]

5. syb

Here's something you'll never hear me say at work: Girls.

I'll never be 'friends' or try to be 'friends' with an employee.

I'm not there to be girlfriends with my employees. Now will I mentor, develop and take someone to task that misses a deadline, objective or internal team goal? You bet. This is regardless of their gender, race, ethnicity, religion.

It's that approach that some think is 'An angry black woman'. Granted I work in a technology/communications focused company in the North East/Greater NYC Area - but women will report other women to HR that refer to them as girls. And if a man does it? Look out!

[southernyankeebelle]

7. I would like to say I am sorry I have offended you for using the dirty word "girl". I come from

an older generation. I will leave it. I guess I shouldn't have comment in the first place. Have a nice day.

[JustAnotherGen]

8. No no no

You didn't offend!

But it's something men get called to task for saying in my work place. Keep in mind I work for a huge wireless carrier that is under constant attack for law suits . . . So anything they can do to avoid a lawsuit? They will.

[southernyankeebelle]

9. Oh I see. Well you know when I was working and I heard it I never thought about it. But then again

I am older and yes I guess thinking back on it I can see the point now.

[onpatrol98]

10. Depends on who says it...

I don't think of girl as a dirty word. At the workplace, we do have to be careful sometimes, though.

I have heard white and black people say it and didn't get offended because I knew the people. Sometimes they were older, sometimes my age...and you just know they didn't mean to offend. I even have a couple of white male coworkers who call females (regardless of color) "gal". Now, that perplexes me a bit more, but they also seem to call all males "fella" or some such. Of course, they never call a man of any complexion a boy. One is ultra liberal, one is quite conservative. But to be honest, as coworkers go, they have been great.

Of course, in the past, I have worked for some men and women that I thought probably had their "white hoods" in the cleaners. If one had said, "Good Morning", I was left wondering...what did she really mean by that?

These days I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt. And, political party truly does not seem to make much of a difference. You have to consider people, one at a time...and over a period of time.

Please feel free to continue to comment. In this group, we like a spirited discussion. Every voice of reason adds to the conversation.

[southernyankeebelle]

11. Thank you for your comment. I just really never thought about it much. Of course am coming from a

white woman's prospective. But I will tell you I can honestly say I was never raised to look at a person's color. I grew up on a military base. I had all kinds of friends. They were no different from me. I invite my girlfriends to my house to eat and sleep overs and they did the same. I never understood what the fuss was all about. I have to say I have lived a sheltered life up til then. When we left the military life and drove through MS and I saw the way people of color were treated I couldn't understand that. I asked my parents. He said he some people can't get pass people of color and we will not be like that ever. We never were. I remember in the 60s and the riots in the streets when dad was coming home and he was late we worried he got in the middle of the fighting. When he got home he told us this elderly woman of color was trying to get a cab and she couldn't get home. He drove her home. Then he came home. Don't get me started when I do hear a person say something about anyone of color. I tell them you should thank your lucky star that anyone, especially people of color fight for your freedoms everyday. I remind them they are dying and spilling their red blue just like mine every day so you can have it nice at home. Like you I think there are good and rotten people in every group of people. Believe me in the white community there are many I wish wouldn't be part of our race either. LOL. I want better for my grandkids. But we will only get this better nation if we all go to the polls and make sure we vote. Encourage our relatives to make sure their papers are in order and if not take them to fill out the right papers. I went Friday and early voted and I voted Obama again. I believe in him because he believes in our country. Thanks again for making me feel welcome.

[onpatrol98]

15. No Problem!

Quote: "I was never raised to look at a person's color."

Hmm...what an interesting perspective? I hear people say that quite a bit. I always marvel at it. I understand it to mean that you take people at face value. You don't make blanket assumptions based on race. I can respect that. It's a worthy goal.

I just haven't been able to escape a color consciousness. Especially here in Mississippi. I've never lived anywhere else. My parents were teenagers in the 60s. I was told my grandmother's father was killed for "passing" or looking so white that he could do things that he wasn't allowed by law to do. I now work at a school my grandmother wasn't allowed (by law) to attend. Because a color consciousness was forced upon them, they simply didn't have the luxury of not seeing color. In fact, I would say that I was taught to consider color. Never mistreat a person. But, don't forget what you are and what you're not.

# 1 - Rule from Mom
You must make straight A's. You aren't allowed to be average. You must be twice as good. Twice as nice, twice as polite, twice as talented...in whatever you do. Susan can be average and the world will reward her. That won't ever be you. Don't get mad about it. Just do what you need to do.

# 1 - Rule from Dad
You must never go where you're not wanted. Walk and/or drive around some neighborhoods and not through them. Policemen, state troopers, teachers are always right, even when they're obviously wrong. Johnny can have a smart mouth, be a brat, and mouth off at a police officer at night. But, that won't ever be you.

***From an early age, I was annoyed with mythical Johnny and Susan and I haven't met either of them, yet.***

But, the message was always clear. Life's gonna be hard for you, kid, because you're black. There's nothing wrong with being black, except people will assume the worse about you before they know you. Who are these people? Well, white people, of course.

Now, to be honest. I haven't had a bad life. I've had a very blessed life. Life hasn't been very hard for me, because of a lot of people who sacrificed a lot before me. But, my parent's rules were pounded into me and quite frankly, they were quite practical and helpful.

Now, even though I don't mention Johnny and Susan with my children, I still have the rules. You still need straight A's. And, if we're talking about my 17 year son, he knows the police officer, trooper, and teacher are always right. Even when they're wrong. We can discuss how wrong they are when he's safely in our home. I never mentioned it in terms of race. But, I didn't have to. He's already had his own compelling experiences.

[southernyankeebelle]

18. Wow, Your right. I am not in your shoes so I know I can't feel what you feel. But I don't have to

contribute to that feeling. I would never ever want to put anyone in that place. I see your momma's point clearly. Your momma is very very wise. I always try to make anyone welcome around me. I mean anyone. My mother came here from another country. We were living in TX and her best friend was a black lady who lived next door to us. My momma and my next door neighbor were pregnant at the same time. Both each had already 4 children and we all played together. Both husbands were senior enlisted men together. Lots of times we played outside wild our parents sat in the yard. When my momma went in to the hospital to have her baby my neighbor took care of us kids and feed us. When about a month later she went in to the hospital to have her baby and my momma took care of them the same way. Talk about being strange my mother just couldn't understand why people treated other terrible. I thank god I had wonderful parents who taught us to open our eyes and meet all kinds of people because they enrich your life. I always followed that motto. But I surely can understand your momma's position.

[Number23]

21. I LOVE this post

Every bleeding word of it.

[onpatrol98]

22. That's because you know the rules, too!

That's because you know the rules, too. Right. It's like a club. Where you're members with people you don't even know. I'm from Mississippi. But, I can meet a black person from Illinois about my age, and usually we still had the same set of rules. I remember watching an interview with Jamie Foxx.
---------------------------------
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0502/28/sbt.01.html

FOXX: You have no idea how -- how this -- how incredible it was to have you behind me. And then you walked up...

OPRAH WINFREY, TALK SHOW HOST: Oh, yes.

FOXX: ... and she gave me a tissue.

WINFREY: Yes.

FOXX: And I`m thinking, Well, does she think I`m going to cry?

WINFREY: No.

FOXX: And she said, Give me that gum. Give me that gum. Get that gum out of your mouth. Give me that gum.

***Now, you know O was checking Foxx on Rule #1. Don't you go up there in front of all those people on camera with that gum in your mouth***
-------------------------------------------------------------
Or, when I read about that fact that when Malcolm X was shot, his children stayed with Sidney Poitier. I was thinking of a different article.

http://www4.lehigh.edu/mobile/news/newsarticle.aspx?Channel=%2FChannels%2FNews%3A+2012&WorkflowItemID=1a99eaa0-ad85-495a-98dd-418159a33094
-------------------------------------------------------------
Patti LaBelle would talk about how really small and tight the families of black performers were...that it was a small world. You would find several of them eating in each other's homes.

In America, African Americans are less than 14% of the American population. Sometimes you meet black people from different parts of the country for the first time and still finish each others sentences when you talk about life in America.

But, I wouldn't trade it for anything in the world.

[bigtree]

2. everything looks like an advantage on the other side

. . . from a losing or insecure one. People sometimes look for anything they can use against someone, just to gain advantage. Likewise, there's also a defensiveness which sometimes insecure folks to resort to labeling and such. Race, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation are just convenient avenues for divisiveness. It's typical for there to be people looking to define someone outside some perceived norm; whether it's a minority stereotyped and labeled to separate them from the majority, or a non-black in a similar imbalance of alliances.

I'm not understanding why anyone is paying this person saying these things any mind; except to wonder, I guess, as you have, what the hell they're talking about. I do think some folks would like to use these simplicities in some debate for their advantage, but I don't believe the dynamics of our personal insecurities and how we project those as we interact with each other are altered by someone declaring that there's some simple characterization that defines an entire gender or race. That's more the point for me, as I read this.

[MADem]

3. That is a bit off-putting and even confusing at first look.

The author of the article is a researcher at Duke: http://www.fuqua.duke.edu/faculty_research/faculty_directory/rosette/

She gets more into her analysis on the second page of that piece:

...There is only one black female chief executive in the entire Fortune 500 — Ursula Burns, the CEO of Xerox — and when she was named in 2009, she became the nation’s first for companies on that list.

Still it may not be an accident that Burns’ leadership style helps to illustrate our findings. Burns has been described by her colleagues as candid, forthright and exhibiting a no-nonsense approach when communicating with her peers and colleagues. According to The New York Times, in Burns’ speech at her inaugural annual meeting at Xerox in 2010, she described the company’s culture as “terminal niceness” and encouraged her employees to be more frank when exchanging ideas with one another. Fortune has called her “hard-charging and blunt,” quoting Burns talking about her “big mouth” and saying that “patience is not one of my strengths.”

The counterintuitive advantage we found in our research about black women and stereotypes may not be enough to open the gates for more women like Ursula Burns on its own. And surely, the advantage is slight compared to the barriers such negative stereotypes have long imposed. But if it helps aspiring black female leaders find a way to embrace the elements of their personality or leadership style that they might otherwise try to hide, perhaps it will help pave the way for more women to join Burns in the future.

What jumped out at me is that those phrases used to describe successful black women, and Ursula Burns--dominant and assertive behavior, no nonsense, blunt, hard charging, frank, not patient-- are indeed often routinely used to describe the most successful MALES at the highest corporate levels.

I'm thinking of Rex Harrison singing that "Why can't a woman be more like a man?" ditty from My Fair Lady. He should have looked for a black Eliza Doolittle and put her in charge of his corporation and he would have gotten his wish--at least according to this research!

[JustAnotherGen]

4. first

I would love a candid discussion about Harris-Perry's book - and having read it . . . Twice now? That discussion needs to happen here - not the Women's Rights or Feminists groups because it is about our unique experience as women in America.

Second - lots of thoughts run through my mind.

Why is Ann Coulter strong and outspoken (an IndieTeaPublican said that to me prior to the 2008 election) but Michelle Obama is angry?
Why are the women in the book/movie 'The Help' applauded - yet working poor black woman in modern day America is STILL looked down upon as a welfare queen?

I have lots of questions. And Harris-Perry does a great job of explainng where these negative beliefs towards black women come from and what challenges they present to us in America currently. But it impacts not just us - but our fathers, brothers, sons, husbands, etc. etc. as they impact our collective prosperity.


Now on topic and in regards to this study. . . I think it depends.

In my current company I have had the following immediate supervisors:
1. Caucasian woman 7 years older.
2. Caucasian man 7 years older.
3. Caucasian man 5 years younger - and a staunch conservative
4. Caucasian man 4 years older and uber liberal.
5. Caucasian man (current) 20 years older and he's just fabulous to work for.

#2 Is the only one I've had issues with. #3 actually ENCOURAGED dominant and assertive behavior.

#5 has me in the formal Back Fill program where when he retires in a few years - that Executive Directorship position is mine. He not only encourages the dominant and assertive behavior in me - but having worked in cross functional projects/programs with members of his old team when I was in the Marketing organization (they were logistics/reverse logistics at that time) . . .he selected me for back fill not only due to merit - but when he offered me the position - he clearly stated: I need someone who will communicate in a straight forward manner and will not deter from doing the right thing for the business and our customers.

Then again - his wife was in corporate America long before me so I think he has the sensitivity chip in regards to women in general. And when you look at what people who have worked for him in the 12 years he's been at the company are now? His direct reports he has an expectation that we will be leaders. And that means sometimes in meetings I have to tell people to stop the pissing contests (exact words) we Gotta Get It Done.

I'm not emotional. I'm flat when I say it. And I have a reputation very little tolerance for nonsense. And I'm also tough but fair. And I'm highly visible at major wireless carrier in the U.S.

Now I'm sure that there ARE some people that think I'm an 'Angry black woman'. But you know what? Let them. It's all they know. That's their ignorance. Because while they are whining about it - I just moved ahead and got ALL of the 'lift' in my team in my annual bonus check on Friday. So let them chew on that.

This study is interesting, but does it hurt NON black women in America? Does it say "It's okay for them, those ones over there" but if YOU step out of line you will be called a bitch? I don't know - it's not my personal experience. I know my mother dealt with that for many years - and I will say this - she's in the same league as Ursula. Literally - same leadership levels/social circle in Rochester NY. So my mom, turning 65 this year and still pushing forward as a caucasian woman at an Executive Leadership level in Rochester NY - and having shared this link with her yesterday said . . . Wouldn't it be funny if the woman who have been pissed on in this country for 400 years shattered the 'she's a bitch for speaking up' panel in the glass ceiling.

She then emailed in rapid fire - Yes. It would be funny. Because it might be my daughter who knocks another panel out of the ceiling.

All that said Now I need some coffee - and will re-read my comments later when I'm actually awake.

Yet another great topic from Number23!

[onpatrol98]

13. Mentoring

Quote: "He not only encourages the dominant and assertive behavior in me..."

This struck a chord with me. I've been in IT related positions for the past 16 or 17 years. It tends to be predominately male. In fact, in my area, predominately white male. When I was younger, my "mentors" on the job, tended to be white males. They did tend to encourage a more assertive stance from me. I was in the military, also (about a minute). It's a hard habit to break. But, even when I worked for a black female and a couple of white females, if they considered "taking me under their wing" as part of their job, they always encouraged a more direct stance from me. The underlying tone tended to be...if you want to stay here, be respected, and get promoted, you have to speak up. And, so far, that has always rang true.

But, I think I would want even more details about what is considered dominant behavior.

[JustAnotherGen]

14. Number 3 and me

Were originally peers. There's a bit of a back story but #2 made a huge mistake when I moved into his group and wanted me out . . . Ie hired me to manage a team - the men all made more than me. A lot of politics went on - and the reality is #3 knew I didn't deserve what happened, was far more qualified than he . . . And wanted one person on his team that did not need to be babysat. So . . . Dominant would be:
Be prepared, do my research hold my ground on initiatives.
We are a billion dollar a year company - as the product to device lead - don't take shit from RIM, Apple, Moto etc etc
Knock other products out of the way every chance you get
Etc etc

From my time on a team prior to that (device launch) - I know that PCD, prior to that UT Starcom, prior to that used to call me. . . . the Little Dictator.

Marcomm, PR, Testing Teams, etc etc heard it at their holiday party for us in 2007 and when people at wireless HQ refer to TLD - they know it's me. I think our CEO refers to me as that too . . . Btw she is a woman.

And the irony of the rep - my fiancé will tell you I'm the sweetest soft spoken person he knows.

When I'm at work tomorrow I'm going to ask #3 what it means and a few people what makes me a little dictator.

[onpatrol98]

16. the Little Dictator

[onpatrol98]

17. Now that you mention it...

I have a rather tall black female friend, I mean she's 6'1 or 6'2 if she's an inch. She has a great personality. Well read, well spoken, etc. But, she is aware of the fact that she comes across as intimidating to some people. She's convinced it's her height and her dark complexion. So much so, that even if she asks (to her understanding) a question for a better understanding with no intent to challenge authority or to antagonize a coworker, she knows it's perceived that way. I have no advice. Her stories are hilarious. But, she is clearly annoyed that her mere presence is considered intimidating. She has had at least one coworker to confirm her suspicions in so many words.

[Number23]

19. FANTASTIC post

I have been so flummoxed by this article. I have actually found myself thinking about it when I'm doing other stuff.

I would love a candid discussion about Harris-Perry's book - and having read it . . . Twice now? That discussion needs to happen here - not the Women's Rights or Feminists groups because it is about our unique experience as women in America.

SPOT ON. I know there is a feminists forum here (and Lord knows after this past week or so, EVERYONE on DU knows there is a feminist forum here on DU) but I've largely stayed away from it. I have been fairly turned off by what I've always perceived as interest in only WHITE women's issues. I have always found it odd that the very people who immediately become so vocal about any alleged sexism towards Hillary or any other white woman become suddenly deaf and dumb when sexism is turned towards Michelle Obama, Sonia Sotomayor or any other woman of color. In fact, I have seen some of the very women who jump to Hillary's defense at every opportunity actually rush to pile on to criticisms of Michelle. It has always seemed to me that for many women (certainly not all, but enough), feminism and women's rights seems to be the domain of WHITE women's right. I have no interest in that whatsoever.

A black, female DUer named AspenRose (who has long since left this place in disgust) had one of the most amazing posts about this issue. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=258&topic_id=7992&mesg_id=8120

Why are the women in the book/movie 'The Help' applauded - yet working poor black woman in modern day America is STILL looked down upon as a welfare queen?

Damn. You just blew my mind. I have never been able to explain why I cannot bring myself to watch this movie. But I just can't do it. I'm sure that it's lovely and a delightful yarn about black, female subjugation and oppression, but for some reason I just can't bring myself to watch it.

Reading about your experiences at your job was incredibly interesting. I have had several white, male supervisors and several white, female supervisors over the course of my career. WITHOUT FAIL, I have had more problems with the white females who seem to be so easily intimidated and threatened. In my experience, the white men I've worked with just want you to do the job and get it done. They have also been much quicker to mentor me than the white women I've worked with.

Wouldn't it be funny if the woman who have been pissed on in this country for 400 years shattered the 'she's a bitch for speaking up' panel in the glass ceiling.

She then emailed in rapid fire - Yes. It would be funny. Because it might be my daughter who knocks another panel out of the ceiling.

Now, THAT I wouldn't doubt for a second.

[JustAnotherGen]

23. Wow

That post you linked to is abfab!

I had a post in Feminists about Jan Brewer and the finger point seen round the world and what I didn't put there that I will put here . . . Black feminists issues are NOT separate from those of the men in our lives. That man (Obama) and I share very similar racial backgrounds.

I saw in that image someone like me that even 35/40 years ago would have been lynched for being too close to a white woman even though she had invaded her space. And truth be told - if it WERE a female or male - it would have been the same thing/fate for her getting in 'our space'. They can argue: But it's 2012.

My counter point - THAT woman in AZ has it in for ALL people with a touch of color. Don't defend her. She would have done the exact same thing to Michelle Obama if she had the chance - it makes her look 'good' to those who don't like the 'brown folk'.

And I agree on the Michelle Obama and women of color in the public eye thing. And I'm going to take it one step further . . .

Why "The Help"? Why now? Why NOW when the image of 'women' in America is wrapped up in well dressed, well read, well spoken, well educated, extremely accomplished in her OWN right woman - who just happens to be black.

[Number23]

25. "Why "The Help"? Why now?"

Honestly, I have no good answer. I don't get it either. I felt the same way when Chris Rock had his stupid little "Good Hair" movie.

I can't explain it, but it almost feels as though both movies are a way to minimize any feeling of ascension that black women may be feeling. And for a black man (Rock) to be involved makes it even more disturbing for me.

[onpatrol98]

26. Two excellent points...

Two great points, little dictator. I'm just kidding. These are great points, though.

"Black feminists issues are NOT separate from those of the men in our lives."

So True: Struggle is struggle.

Good point also about the Help. Why now? Did women of color need a reminder of our past? Behind every good man is a good woman...and behind every good black woman???

What would we assume from watching, the Help?

Hey, maybe I'm stretching. Surely,there is no underlying agenda. Okay, I have to stop now. I'm starting to creep myself out.

[Number23]

27. You know, I've thought about this all day

Maybe The Help came out now to dispel the still lingering (though Lord knows why) myth that white women simply cannot under any circumstances EVER be racist because they suffer gender discrimination.

Maybe the author wrote that book and somebody made that movie in an effort to kill that myth once and for all. Yeah, I'm going to go with this, I think.

[JustAnotherGen]

28. Catherina posted this in the Feminist Forum yesterday

This link:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2033369/Her-family-hired-maid-12-years-stole-life-Disney-movie.html

It's a good read. I just think Stockett is an opportunist - and that's the 'American Way' - but . . . she did it at my expense, your expense, and the real life Abilene's expense. Eh? We're 'easy' to pick on and it seems "acceptable" to continue to pick on us. Siiiiiiiiiiiiighhhhhhhh!

[Number23]

29. Good Lord...

‘I just cried and cried after I read the first few pages. In the book, Aibileen has taken her job five months after her son is killed in an accident. My son, Willie, had leukaemia and died when he was 18, in July 1998, three months before I went to work for the Stocketts.

‘I felt the emotions in my heart all over again. Kathryn copied parts of my life and used them without even asking me.’

In the book, Aibileen is a deeply religious woman who sports a gold tooth and a gold cross, as does the real-life Abilene.

And this one:

"Abilene’s lawyer, Edward Sanders, says: ‘It’s not about money for Abilene. It’s about hypocrisy. The Help’s big appeal is to white people. It makes them feel good because it’s about a white woman who reaches across the racial divide to help poor black servants.

Well, let me tell you, it hasn’t done anything to help Abilene. She feels Stockett is just one more white woman who has exploited an African-American.’

Wow. I don't even know how to respond to this. I had no interest in seeing the film before, but after this I think I've changed my mind.

I hope the book and the film reap PHENOMENAL, unprecedented success. I hope the author makes millions. And then I hope Ms. Aibileen sues her for every last damn dime. And wins.

[onpatrol98]

12. Great Topic!

I should probably read the book. I have to wonder about the research. For instance, I do find people respond to confident personalities. What is "really" meant by the term dominant? I think if you walk into many offices as if you know what you're doing...and you really do know what you're doing...and you do it. You tend to do better with people of all backgrounds. I also believe if you walk into an office and come across as insecure or meek, you will probably be overlooked and not taken seriously.

In context, I think an subordinate expects dominant but respectful behavior from a supervisor or manager. After all, I want to be able to confidently walk up to you for direction and then get what I need. It may be that more baggage comes from other group interactions or our preconceived notions.

Totally Made Up Scenarios Follow (For Professional Alerters)
----------------------------------------
Manager ------- > Subordinate ------- > Thinking Pattern of Subordinate

White Male ------ White Male ------ I don't want to answer to him, I want to be him
White Male ------ Black Male ------ I bet he doesn't even know what he's talking about. I could do that job better and I'm probably more qualified.
White Male ------ White Female ------ As long as he treats me right (according to my definition), we're fine.
White Male ------ Black Female ------ Life as usual. He looks like a 12 year old and probably knows about as much.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Black Male ------ Black Male ------ I would think this would work fine.
Black Male ------ White Male ------ I should have that job.
Black Male ------ Black Female ------ He's safe. As long as he knows what he's doing.
Black Male ------ White Female ------ I wonder how he got that job.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Black Female ------ Black Male ------ Hmm. Well, I know she had to be overly qualified just to get the job.
Black Female ------ White Male ------ I should have that job.
Black Female ------ Black Female ------ I want to be just like that when I grow up.
Black Female ------ White Female ------ She scares me...just a little bit.

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White Female ------ Black Male ------ Who did she know to get this job?
White Female ------ White Male ------ I should have that job.
White Female ------ Black Female ------ Who did she know to get this job?
White Female ------ White Female ------ Who did she know to get this job?
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Now, look. Don't email me. I made all that stuff up. I have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA what people are thinking. I don't know if anyone has every actually thought any of those things.

If it comes across as racist, sexist, or something elseist, please forgive me. I offer it merely for an added perspective and chose to be extreme to make a point.

I'm just wondering if our preconceived notions have a major impact on how we feel about the boss. I have personally worked for all of the above with great experiences. Only a couple were pains in the #$%&. But, I think we make assumptions about people based on more than simply our actual interactions in the workplace.

By the way, the White Female part actually does come from a conversation I had with a coworker who felt people treated her as if she wasn't qualified just because she was a young, white, female. They all assumed she had to know someone to get the job and not that she had earned the promotion. She was clearly bright and on top of her game, but she felt like she was constantly being second guessed unfairly. Her youth may have had something to do with that, as well.

[Number23]

20. THIS!!!!

BRILLIANT!!!

Black Female ------ Black Male ------ Hmm. Well, I know she had to be overly qualified just to get the job.
Black Female ------ White Male ------ I should have that job.
Black Female ------ Black Female ------ I want to be just like that when I grow up.
Black Female ------ White Female ------ She scares me...just a little bit.

Oh my GOD!! You just summed it all up. BRILLIANT! PERFECT!!!

As for this one:

White Female ------ Black Male ------ Who did she know to get this job?
White Female ------ White Male ------ I should have that job.
White Female ------ Black Female ------ Who did she know to get this job?
White Female ------ White Female ------ Who did she know to get this job?

I think there is a bit of truth in this as well. I am not a white woman and would never dare to speak for them, but from what I've seen in the corporate environment, there seems to be some truth in this.

[blue ivy schlotsky]

24. I don't care what race a person is, or even the gender

I dislike bullies and others who run roughshod over people. I dislike uncooperative people, thin-skinned people and those who cannot assert themselves without barking out orders and treating people disrespectfully.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

30. to someone who studies stereotyping, this is because there is less of a violation of prescriptive

stereotyping when black women are aggressive. whereas for other women there is a backlash effect because being assertive violates both prescriptive and descriptive stereotypes for women.

this is an explanation not a justification for existing stereotypes