African American
Related: About this forumthe argument by many
in the last 2 years or so is that economic parity between the races in this country will go a long way in solving the problem of white racism and AA economic depression because of lack of opportunity, especially in the urban areas or ameriKKKan 'homelands' as many believe the segregated 'urban' areas are and as I see the segregated "urban" areas of ameriKKKa. How ludicrous.
President Obama as a POTUS of distinction was faced with unprecedented white hate in our Congress and was still referred to as n***** by many in the alternative and main medias. His success didn't stop racists. Ophrah Winfrey and any successful POC, no matter how much "economic parity" they possess, are still seen for who they are, POC, therefore open to white racist hate and white supremacist threat. Charleston S.C. church massacre and the recent charlottesville white terrorist riot, murders and beatings of counter protestors to their hate prove that point. And Boston? Just proved to me that though 40,000 showed up to protest racist, white supremacist hate, they still had to show up to make the anti-racist point that while many oppose racists, many in this country support racism and white supremacist hate and I venture to say a huge portion of the 66 millions that voted for the idiot potus, do.
I just hope in spite of sessions attempts and local attempts to suppress voter turnout among POC that the numbers in 2018 will be so overwhelming as to put white supremacist on notice to follow their leader in the WH and crawl back into that toilet from whence they came.
Money, "economic parity" has NOTHING to do with white racism and white supremacist ideology.
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laserhaas
(7,805 posts)He documented millions were denied thrir right to vote ("blocking"
; and knows the preponderance are African Americans.
If we don't unite to fix this, 2028 & 2020 will be a loss
Link to tweet
Eliot Rosewater
(31,112 posts)And I support him, financially and otherwise, but it kinda still has to be said that racism is everything on this issue.
Greg knows and says that, but to some you might hear that black people are not the only ones disenfranchised, or POC, but they really are.
White people are not disenfranchised, not here.
Nobody is making that point in this thread but it is getting loud out THERE by a certain faction of progressives.
Donald Trump got 3 million less votes of votes cast, 6 million less if all eligible voters who TRIED to vote were allowed to
AND
he lost in the EC in those 4 states as well even without crosscheck, as in KGB agents flipping votes at precincts they have worked at for decades.
Racism is the sole reason to oppose Obama, period. Those on the right opposed him purely out of hate and racism and those on the left who opposed him used bullshit excuses, I mean think about it
NOBODY brings us anywhere NEAR this close to single payer like Obama did and yet it was STILL not good enough, abandoned in 2010 by white progressives. FUCK that
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)Just sayin....
heaven05
(18,124 posts)
sheshe2
(83,766 posts)I am in complete agreement.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)no other way from my experiences in this life.
sheshe2
(83,766 posts)though not from your standpoint. That would be impossible for me. I never stood in your shoes. I am just a friend who cares.
brer cat
(24,565 posts)to talk about economic inequality than to talk about racism, and we certainly must not introduce a conversation that might suggest even liberals and progressives may have issues when it comes to race. Even the continual refighting of the Civil War and blaming the south for all racism is a form of deflection to avoid having uncomfortable conversations. We are generations removed from that war and the Jim Crow era, yet Black Americans still are not accorded value and dignity and it is hardly unique to the south. Getting defensive when the subject is brought up is not having an honest conversation. Black Lives Matter? Many progressives attacked their tactics without bothering to discuss, much less applaud, their goals. White privilege? Not me...I was born poor and had no advantages.
My hope is the same as yours. Voters can turn the leadership of this country around, but if only republicans vote or count the vote, they stay in power. We must put some overwhelming numbers on the board to stop it.
too easy to talk about economics when racial hate is the culprit that has poisoned relations for generations between the black and white races
GaryCnf
(1,399 posts)please forgive me.
Your view of economic parity with regards to at least my community is, to put it nicely, skewed. Your attempt to sever it from racism is misguided.
Economic disparity -- together with the resultant lack of power in a political system that many would just as soon leave in the hands of the wealthy -- is the primary weapon of racism, not the gun, not the KKK march, not even the 66 million Pollies who voted for Trump. This is because economic disparity is not "White guy makes $15/hour, but I make $10/hour" and for this reason it is not corrected when, to use your examples, Barack Obama became the greatest president in history, or Oprah became wealthy. That is accepting the same "tokenist" argument used against us by white folks as your starting point. It is also the reason why we will never be anything to white folks no matter how many of us become individually wealthy.
Economic disparity begins with the $60 TRILLION of wealth white folks stole from us during the Atlantic slave trade and the institution of North American slavery and it grows from there. So long as this remains a capitalist country, we will not be free and equal until it is repaid because we will never have any power other than that which white folks allow us to have. The generational wealth gap is simply too great by multiples to correct it with education, opportunity, and whatever piecemeal solutions they propose because there will never be enough of us to change seat of power. It is this fact which makes the achievements of Barack Obama so monumental, so above anything any white politician has ever accomplished. It is what makes Oprah's wealth so much more impressive than Trump's. It is what makes the rise of someone like Cornell West to the platform committee of the Democratic Party almost unimaginable. They didn't end economic disparity, they conquered it.
This, by the way, is why the most prominent figures in the fight for liberation, from Huey Newton and the BPP to Martin Luther King to Malcom X were socialists. As much as they valued education, opportunity and the like, they knew that curing this disparity, the disparity created by 400 years of slavery, was the only path to our liberation as a people and the only path to political power commensurate with our numbers AND our contributions.
Why do the racist chant with greater fervor than they have for years? Because they can. Because they have the privilege that comes from controlling a disproportionate amount of this country's wealth and they know that many of the people we call friends will not lift a finger to change that. Because they know that we can, but more often can't, win redistricting lawsuits but all they have to do is just draw a new district.
AND
Because they know far too many of us have forgotten what OUR leaders taught us and listen instead to people who don't look like us when they say to keep being patient even though it has been more than 4 centuries after they took everything from us AND that all we have to do is to win the next election. I have never voted for anyone but a Democrat since my first election in 1968 -- and that was even after being a participant in a third party "convention" -- and I never will -- I know what I lose when Republicans are in power -- but I am still not so naïve as to believe that one. We will be free when we get what is ours.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)when it comes to economic parity as a socialist might understand it, I see that as a 'pie in the sky goal' never to be achieved if there is no respect for the person trying to achieve that parity.
What community exactly, are you referring too? The AA community at large or just your local community? I have been around in the AA community since birth by virtue of my skin color and as long as you in the voting game of american politics-4 years.
I have found, in my experiences, that the systemic racism of american culture, that's in justice, educational and societal systems, social programs ect: are THE major hindrance to advancement in the area of race relations, not the lack of wealth as your 60 trillion dollar example and socialist ideological leanings tries to impress upon one. The primary weapon of racists, the rich and knowledgeable racists holding that 60 trillion prize, is playing on the ignorance of their foot soldiers and having them believe their skin color is superior to the smartest, richest AA, as exhibited by them in Charlottsville. They have just as little or much as the next person struggling month to month, week by week, day by day to just keep the lights on and food in their bellies. Those foot soldiers have one thing and one thing only that they feel makes the lowest of them better and more superior to a Winfrey or even an Obama and that is their white skin, that is my point and not tokenism as you put it....but socialist arguments always put the onus on economic disparity on those denied parity because they have not fought hard enough to get their reparation dollar prize returned to them.
Money has nothing to do with the racist mindset....just an attitude fostered by the 60 trillion bunch onto their 66 million foot soldiers. Do you actually think if the 60 trillion prize stolen during the Slavery Era was somehow divided between just the Caucasian and AA races that racism would disappear and we would have power enough to change a racist mindset?
Capitalism vs Socialism as played out by those you mentioned from our era of fighting for human and civil rights and respect proved woefully inadequate in gaining human and civil rights. No money, blood and sacrifice got me some measure of human respect and the right to vote in a rigged system. Money won't change that system just more blood and sacrifice by those committed to fair play and a just political system that truly is all inclusive.
All those AA leaders mentioned by you were socialist precisely because they knew neither major party gave a damn about us and as quiet as it was kept, neither did the socialist movement, writ large. I was there, I was one and race was a factor in those meetings as much as it was with the two other major political parties. Why, because race gets in the way of many an ideal, in amerikkka, not the holding of wealth or lack of it.
You leave out an important factor I feel and that factor is the religious component in ameriKKKan racism. The RW religionist, who hold a sizable portion of that 60 trillion dollar prize in america have always had an agenda of white supremacy and ideology in america. No ifs, and's or buts. It had to do with money, race and white supremacist ideology....Manifest Destiny. RACE, as in superior vs inferior skin color in human beings is the major cause of racism, not dollars. They achieved those dollars by subjugating millions of people NOT of their race. SKIN COLOR, is the major cause of racism in AmericKKKa, and I respectfully disagree with your arguments based on wealth.
A major candidate held your views in the last campaign and he had a major blind spot along with his many followers when it came to understanding racism AND HATE based on skin color. Many followers of this candidate could not because wealth was the factor they concentrated on. Many were guilty of a lot of racial insensitivity toward many fighting for racial justice after the murders of many young unarmed AA, men, women and children.....money would not have saved them. They were killed because of racist hate....period.
GaryCnf
(1,399 posts)This has some great stuff!
Here is the issue I have. To deny the power bestowed on ruling whites by virtue of their unjust enrichment through slavery or that it is correctable is to concede our subjugation into perpetuity. This is precisely because you are correct about the nature of racism. It is genetically -- in a practical sense -- embedded in white folks. There is no mechanism to induce them to voluntarily break the chains other than to alter the connection between wealth and power or to alter the distribution of wealth, both of which have occurred at least to some extent in the last century.
As for our failure, and I say "our" as a former member of the Panthers - or should I say a member of the former Panthers, I ask you to consider whether we failed because workers withheld their support or because the wealthy held the bigger guns in Oakland or the bigger bombs in Philly and other lesser known battlefields? Not saying you're wrong, just asking you to consider it because I too was there and the "be patient" white folks were the ones sending the cops after us because they couldn't stand the inverting of power and the radicals were the ones getting their heads busted by the same cops.
And they still are.
I could be wrong about all this, of course. I am old now and past glory is just that, past. Sometimes when I speak to young people about that time, all I see is hopelessness and acquiescence to the reality that whether their name is LeBron, Oprah, or even Barack, it will still be . . .
I cannot express my appreciation for the work you put into your response or my respect for your intellect. I ask only that you remember that there a million or more people who share our experiences and who like us may well vote Democratic Party without fail but who feel no more part of it than the leaders you and I grew up admiring.
Thank you
heaven05
(18,124 posts)I feel that. As a man who lived his convictions in dangerous times, such as the courageous warriors in BLM today, I have always applauded that type of total commitment to cause you have shown and no doubt still feel, as I do....I worked diligently on the Free Angela Davis committee at Boston U....that's my claim for cause. And I did see her in New York after she was freed...exciting and satisfying to have gotten her away from the clutches of the types running our government today. Angela Davis, George Jackson, Fred Hampton Mark Clark all are representative, no matter the political leanings, of warriors committed unto death to change a system that has not changed that much from our days in the sun.
We did well to agitate, at that time, for our again eroding human, civil and voting rights, the difference today is so many more americans realize the extreme danger WE ALL are facing with the confederate/nazi coalition running amok in the streets at the behest of the idiot potus and the shadow executive triumverate of bannon, miller and gorka. Bannon is not out of the picture I feel, his so-called 'departure' was window dressing for the RW to point to and the media to play up as something important and of substance. It wasn't.
I appreciate your responses and feel we are not really that far apart when it comes to knowing the danger we are in and what it will take to alleviate that racist RW juggernaut rolling, literally, over the bodies of people opposed to them. It will take people of varying leftist ideologies and courage to defeat the current racist government, from the top to the bottom. We have to try .........that's all I know...peace
GaryCnf
(1,399 posts) GaryCnf
(1,399 posts)and how "millions" might have been "small" exaggeration - corrected - when something you said suddenly struck me.
Are you saying that Newton, King, and Shabazz were only socialists because the Democratic Party wasn't paying attention to us, otherwise they would have jumped on the capitalist bandwagon?
I think that may be a bit of a stretch, not to mention an unintentionally denigrating one - if I am reading it right. The truth, which I happen to know first-hand with regards to Newton, Cleaver and Seale, is that each of them were insightful, fully informed and widely and deeply experienced men who weighed the benefits of both economic theories for black Americans before they chose their path.
Of, course, as I said before, it was a long time ago.
sheshe2
(83,767 posts)Cable news media’s coverage of Donald Trump’s reaction to the white supremacist terror and mayhem in Charlottesville has been an emotional spectacle. Hosts and panelists have cried, yelled at each other, become unhinged, hurled insults, acted stunned and displayed almost every range of human emotion. This is the tragic melodrama that helps to define a medium. America in 2017 may not have a Hindenburg disaster but it does have Charlottesville.
I must confess to a guilty pleasure. For me, the most “entertaining” part of the post-Charlottesville TV spectacle has been watching black conservatives with all their tears and feigned outrage and surprise at Donald Trump and the white supremacists, neo-Confederates and Nazis he coddles. The cognitive dissonance of today’s black conservatives in Trump’s America is almost awe-inspiring.
For roughly the last 50 years the Republican Party has been the United States’ largest white supremacist organization. To that end the Republicans have tried to keep African-Americans and other people of color from voting, relied on an electoral strategy of both subtle and overt racism to win white voters, supported the racist conspiracy theory of “birtherism” against our first black president, and advocates a range of public policies that disproportionately harm nonwhites.
Republicans are also much more likely than Democrats to hold racist attitudestoward African-Americans. And of course, the Republican Party is led (at least nominally) by Donald Trump, a man who by virtue of his words and actions has repeatedly shown that he is a racist.
In today’s Republican Party, black conservatives — especially the professional cheerleaders who are trotted out on cable news shows — occupy a very specific role. In the post-Civil Rights era, displays of overt racism have largely fallen out of favor. However, the Republican Party is addicted to using white racism to win elections and advance its policies. To help make this strategy viable, black conservatives serve as a type of human shield for the cause of white supremacy. In essence, they are professional “best black friends.”
As they blubber and bemoan their “pain” about Donald Trump and Charlottesville, black conservatives face a basic question which they will likely never answer.
Oh please read it all. Chauncey DeVega nails it once again. http://www.chaunceydevega.com/2017/08/black-conservatives-who-support-donald.html
https://www.democraticunderground.com/118762731
West sold himself for 30 pieces of silver.
GaryCnf
(1,399 posts)I liked your OP on that article and expressed my agreement in a reply.
West is no conservative. His refusal to support our candidate doesn't make him one.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)my feelings toward black conservatives. period. And cornell west? Yes, massa, they ran this way!!!! Follow me, we'll catch those runaway n******!!!!!
Exactly, he is a betrayal.
Peace~
cwydro
(51,308 posts)There are real dyed-in-the-wool racists in this country. I doubt they are capable of change, even if they wanted to...and they don't.
I have to admit that the numbers and virulence of those in Charlottesville took me by surprise. The fact they they've been encouraged by the shitstain in the oval office is frightening to me...terrifying.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)ameriKKKan racism will never be solved? And if POC, immigrants, 40% of total population, relocate out of ameriKKKa like white racists want, taking skills and experience with them, who will racists blame when they turn on each other for whatever reason and they will find fault among themselves because ameriKKKa went down the tubes into a vicious 3rd world status, and Africa and every other country of american emigres returned would be rising......
for sure......got to cut the grass, been trying to for the last hour and a half...I get so involved here.....
YoungDemCA
(5,714 posts)Other than emphasizing to them how supporting a President and party that condones racism and white supremacy won't raise their wages, won't get them jobs, won't help solve the opiate crisis in many of their communities, won't help their children and grandchildren have good lives, won't get them any access to health care or education...you get the point.
Unfortunately, most white people - even many of those who aren't explicitly racist - don't give a shit about racism because they aren't directly affected by it. It's not an immediate, pressing issue for them. Hard to get white people to support social and racial justice when they have more immediate concerns in their OWN lives.
Does that make any sense?
heaven05
(18,124 posts)whether they are struggling to make a living, like most of us, white privilege and entitlement gives them the choice to turn a blind eye to the hate and misery caused by white racism. Therefore, "they don't give a shit about racism". So it will NEVER be solved or end because of the self-centered reality of white privilege and entitlement among the group of white you use as example.
YoungDemCA
(5,714 posts)Ugh!
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)For almost a year, I've been listening to far too many people tell me that if our greed and consumerism are equally slaked by all citizens, racism will end.
I happen to think it's an idiotic sentiment, unsupported by historical or even economic precedent, designed to rationalize and brand a sacred cow.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)will not face the truth about themselves and racism and why racism has NEVER died out in this country.....too many don't want it to end because entitlement and privilege would be in jeopardy for many, many people and that just can't stand...people need their entitlement bubble to feel their superiority..
qwlauren35
(6,148 posts)I remember a year ago when various Bernie supporters tried to ram down our throats that economic parity would eliminate racism.
Only a white person would say something so stupid.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)is the entitlement and privilege angle and it's 'deniers have always kept racism in place to assure a comfort level, emotionally, physically and financially.