Report: Pats' Spygate Cheating Lasted 'At Least 40 Games'

[RockaFowler]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/09/08/report-patriots-spygate-cheating-was-widespread-over-many-years/?cid=eref:nbcnews:text

An ESPN Outside the Lines report, citing interviews with more than 90 sources around the NFL, says that the Spygate cheating lasted “at least 40 games over a period of several seasons from 2000 to 2007,” and that the league never fully investigated all the accusations against the team.

According to the report, the taping of opponents’ signals reached the point where the Patriots had diagrams of the stolen signals that they could use during games.

The report also says that other teams were much more upset about the Patriots’ cheating than they let on, because NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell convinced the rest of the league not to press the issue. Former Rams coach Mike Martz, whose team lost to the Patriots in Belichick’s first Super Bowl, said he was pressured by a “panicked” Goodell to issue a statement saying he was satisfied by the league’s investigation of the Patriots. Martz said he agreed to go along with Goodell’s request to issue a statement backing the league not because he was completely satisfied by the investigation, but because Goodell convinced Martz that a prolonged scandal could badly damage the league.

[Iggo]

1. Patriots cheat.

It's a known fact.

[Capt. Obvious]

2. You misspelled win

[trotsky]

3. Gee, could that be why the NFL destroyed all the tapes? n/t

[hughee99]

4. It sounds like the issue here is with the commissioner...

The one that everyone thought was great just a few weeks ago.

[mythology]

5. Just because the commissioner didn't punish the Patriots enough

Doesn't remove the team's obligation to not cheat.

If the allegations in the report are true, the existing organizational structure needs to go, from the owner on down.

Put real teeth into punishments for cheaters.

[hughee99]

7. It sounds like the issue is the punishment they didn't get. That's the commissioners issue, not

teams's issue. If they allegations in the report are true, and it's also accurate that these issues are unique to the Patriots, then you make a good point. If it turns out that this is not a unique patriots thing, if signals have been video taped for decades (which John Madded mentioned on a broadcast as far back as 1992, sideline communications are being interfered with (as was alleged that Bill Walsh did back in the 80's), if these issues are league wide, it seems kind of hypocritical to ONLY address them with ONE team.

But if your issue is "real punishment for cheaters" then your issue should be with the commissioner. And you should expect that commissioner to take cheating seriously in all situations, not a slap on the wrist for tampering, piping in crowd noise for 2 years, heating up footballs in front of the camera on national tv, or hiding a stickum-filled towel on the sideline because the particular team isn't one you care about.

[mythology]

10. I think any cheating like taking peds or deflating footballs or illegal filming

should get a 2 year ban like cheaters get in Olympic sports. A second offense would be a lifetime ban. Piping in crown noise, a GM texting to the sidelines, all of it. But while you can blame the commissioner for those last two punishments being a farce, you can't blame him for the negotiated penalties for drug cheats and such without blaming the NFLPA.

In all of the U.S. sports, the punishments are so laughable that it almost incentives players/teams to cheat. Where would Seattle be if their vaunted defense had 4 or 5 players suspended for 2 years over the last few years? But instead it's 4 games which is a joke. Also not revealing what the players failed for (also negotiated by the NFLPA) makes it possible for people to claim they were taking Adderall (the Seahawks claimed drug of choice) or a fertility treatment (Robert Mathis, who already had multiple kids, claimed his failed drug test was for a fertility treatment that is only approved for women).

The NFLPA fought tooth and nail against harsher ped suspensions and left loopholes big enough to drive a tank through on testing. For example the current best test for HGH is already fairly useless, but the NFLPA negotiated an especially useless testing regime that is designed to not catch anybody.

But in the end, it comes down to honor and self-respect. To me, cheating is ultimately dishonorable. It shouldn't matter if there is no punishment other than the knowledge that one broke the agreed upon rules. I get that it's an old fashioned concept and is one of the reasons why I could never play team sports because I would absolutely turn in a cheating teammate and do so gladly. If a player or a team cheats, it's because they lack honor. Just like I don't feel the need to not kill somebody because I fear a deity consigning me to hell, I don't think players or teams should need the threat of punishment to not cheat.

I understand that no matter how harsh the punishment, some number of people will be unethical and cowardly enough that they see nothing wrong with cheating as the growing evidence suggests the entire Patriots organization is. It's unfortunate that the punishments aren't harsher, but cheats will always have the advantage of knowing the rules and being able to find ways around them. But at the end of the day, there is still no moral right to break the rules just because you think the risk of being caught and punished is less than the potential gain. I don't blame the EPA because their fines aren't enough to discourage companies from dumping waste. I blame the companies and wish the EPA could do more.

[hughee99]

11. I agree with much of what you say, though I think a 2 year ban for NFL players is essentially a

lifetime ban anyway. I would say that if the penalties are going to be this harsh, though, the league should have to prove it's case. "More probable than not" is not a sufficient standard to end someone's nfl career, nor are vaguely written clauses like the "integrity of the game certification". The NFLPA is trying to protect their players, and I completely understand that, but in doing so, they are certainly complicit in covering up some rules violations.

[trumad]

6. Come on hughee

If you read the ESPN and SI reports ya gotta shake your head and say WTF.

I honestly had no clue on how bad it was but its pretty f'ing bad.

[hughee99]

8. Yes it sounds awful. It's also a whole lot of "supposedly", "was reported to have",

and "allegedly". If the NFL is serious about this, it should be investigated. The NFL should have to prove their allegations. They should punish the offenders, and when possible, change policy to make things more difficult. Video taping defensive signals isn't going to do anyone much good now that the defense has the helmet communications, for example, but screwing with helmet communications is hardly a new thing or one that's unique to the patriots. Running a sham investigation and then when you don't get the proof you want, just declaring people guilty anyway is not the way to go about it.

[El Supremo]

9. But Shanyhan says everyone cheats

http://itiswhatitis.weei.com/sports/newengland/football/patriots/2015/09/09/mike-shanahan-everybody-was-trying-to-steal-signals/

Well, that is his alibi.