Just got back from the most uncomfortable memorial service I've ever attended.

[pinto]

It was meant as a celebration of the life of the deceased, a time for some personal stories, some food, visits with old friends. Held in a non-denominational spiritual center, I figured it would be just that.

It was far from that. A short invocation from a pastor. Fine. A couple of poems. Nice touch. Some personal stories from friends and family. The heart of the thing for me. Then it went sideways. The pastor got back up and after a brief disclaimer that he meant no offense to those of other faiths or no faith framed the thing. "I'm a Christian and will speak from that point of view. Because I'm a Christian and believe Jesus is our life and savior". Read some bible passages.

He asked for more personal stories or comments. One woman rose to apparently speak of the deceased's on-again-off-again attendance at her church. Then began evangelizing. The only real path to a full life was through Jesus. The only way beyond death was acceptance of Jesus. The pastor continued on the theme, recounting at length the story of Lazarus. Life doesn't end at death, it begins because Jesus made it so.

At one point I started counting in my head - the name Jesus was mentioned twice as often as the woman's whose life we came to recognize. And share among friends. What could have been a simple, touching get together seemed hijacked.

My best friend, an atheist, was about to get up and leave or share some of the more vivid aspects of her friend's life. I know her well and could see the possibility. A friend to my right, a Jew by upbringing, was clearly uncomfortable. She just stared at the floor.

I was really taken aback. Totally didn't see it coming. The most uncomfortable hour I've spent in a long time.

We all went into the next room after the whole thing for some food - a pot-luck array. Good stuff. And a few of us stood together actually talking about the woman who died, in a bit more realistic terms. And laughed sharing stories.

Overall, I'm glad I went. Got to see her husband. Some out of touch mutual friends. And glad I showed up, just to be there. For the woman I knew, who the pastor didn't. My best friend said on the way home as we sort of decompressed said, "If I die, don't ever let this happen."

[Walk away]

1. My family knows. Cremation and no fuss....

I would rather everybody just forget I died. As if just lost touch or move to the West Coast.

[awoke_in_2003]

2. Christians have to take control of everything...

whether you like it or not, they want to shove Jeebus down your throat to save you. They know the real truth. My wishes are cremation and NOOOOO memorial. If people need to go somewhere, go get a milkshake.

[TheDebbieDee]

5. I think many Christians are under this misconception that

the only way to be a Christian is to beat everyone over the head with the fact that they are a Christian!

[awoke_in_2003]

6. Exactly. nt

[2naSalit]

15. The crusades never ended...

Sorry that happened to the woman's friends and family. Wish there were some kind of remedy to prescribe.

[pinto]

16. Please see my post #13. I didn't mean this to be about religion, per se.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=100066

I didn't want to imply that. It was this one event and my reaction. I saw it as an anomaly, to be honest.

[Heddi]

3. I'm sorry that happened...same happened at my Godfather's funeral

He wasn't a religious man. He wanted an irreligious funeral.

What he got was a hellfire and brimstone bunch of bullshittery from a preacher who (by his own account) had passed by my Uncle (what I called him)'s room as he was dying and trying to be revived by the medical team.

From what my grandmother said, he hung around and passed out his cards to all the family members who came by after he died and kind of passed himself off as someone who could arrange a funeral for him...his illness and death were very sudden and he died within a few hours of arriving at the hospital.

Total fucking charlatan and gave a sermon instead of a euolgy. He didn't even know the man but was spouting all these "I know in Richard's heart he had accepted Jesus blah blah blah" His name wasn't even RICHARD. He went by "rick" because it was short for his last name.

Everyone who was there were just looking at each other in awe "oh my god...is this really happening? at Rick's funeral?"

It was horrible.

The same guy was there at the burial part and the bullshittery continued. As Uncle Rick's casket was being raised to be put in the...can't think of the word...like mauseleom, where the caskets don't go in the ground but in the building...anyways, as his casket was being raised this HUGE gust of wind came and blew the curtain down that was hiding the casket hole in the wall, and blew down some decorative flower urns.

Everyone (me included) took that as a sign that Uncle Rick was in no way pleased with his supposedly areligious funeral.

I'm so sorry you had to go through that. You should be mourning your loss, not spend your time feeling like her memory has been sullied by people who don't even know them :hugs:

[Half-Century Man]

12. You should have confronted him on the spot.

When I read your account of what happened, I made up my mind to never suffer through something like that.

[Heddi]

20. I was 15 or 16

I had just learned to stop looking at my feet when I spoke to people. Causing a scene at a funeral was far beyond my capabilities

[Half-Century Man]

21. I'm 54 and still have issues casing scenes

Although I will admit, now days its mostly not wanting to piss my wife off.

[brewens]

4. I heard a similar story but it involved a small town church that had been

taken over by a right-wing pastor. It had been a much more casual church until their old long term pastor retired. So you had the local fundies really loving the new guy, some local people eating it up and being becoming more fervent and the rest of the local members feeling like they lost their church.

The part you mentioned about their speaking of your friends attendance was a big deal in this town too. No one questioned you there if you missed a few Sundays here and there. They'll do that. Letting you know they are paying attention and disapprove. That's what that lady was up to. Those kind of people really suck!

[gopiscrap]

7. Not cool

[IrishAyes]

8. I truly regret when someone has to go through what your friend's family and friends suffered.

It's not right at all. The guy with the cards at the hospital sounds like an ambulance chaser.

For what it's worth, because I know it won't happen, here's what I'd like: a cremation followed by a New Orleans jazz funeral procession followed by a real old fashioned Irish wake. The cremation they can't stop, but the other two are just fantasies I can't make happen. Something else I'd like to do but can't would be to have my ashes scattered from a plane all over town as a sort of parting gesture.

[pasto76]

9. the mechanism behind this is 'me me me'

*I* know more about the creator of the universe than you.

*I* think blah blah blah

as you noted, Jesus is mentioned twice as often as the deceased. This is horrible. A major lesson in my adult life is to not make things about me. In this american culture, this is often difficult.

consider sending a short note to the pastor. Maybe it will prevent this from happening to the next person.

[pinto]

14. (aside) I think a friend I worked with in hospice may contact the local organization.

The pastor is also the hospice chaplain to the woman's husband. He's on hospice care, dx is terminal pancreatic cancer. Hospice tenets are clear - no preaching, no attempt to save the client. Same standard with MD's involved. No curative interventions. Comfort, compassion, empathy and a good ear are the keys. For all involved.

No idea how the pastor interacts with the guy. Could be totally benign and supportive. But I think she's going to make a call just to see. I'm not going to step in at all.

Saw the guy at the service and he was open about his dx, the medical assessment of his lifespan and seemed pretty OK, all things considered. Comfortable with the pain management. Mobile to an extent. A bit feisty. That may sound odd, but it's a good place to be, imo. I don't think he's going to feel he needs to be saved.

[Mariana]

18. This kind of pastor would probably be happy to find out

that his preaching upset the heathens.

[Half-Century Man]

10. These people seem to have such a small opinion of their own G*D;

they fear he will disintegrate and blow away if they don't mention him every sentence.

[dem in texas]

11. Southern Baptists are the worst

I have been to many funerals where the pastor is more interested in saving souls than paying homage to the departed person. This happened at my brother's funeral and my father-in-laws funeral just to name two. It is a pure turn off to me.

[pinto]

13. Follow up after a meal and a walk -

Some aspect of religiosity didn't bother me at all. Nor did some of the gloss over of the woman's life. All are common. I've been to numerous wakes, funerals, memorial services. Most are meant to see the best in a person. To remember someone in that pov among and along with all the other stuff people have in their lives.

Most events I've attended had some sort of religious component. That I understand. And appreciate as is.

Yet I'd never seen such a clear attempt at evangelizing and conversion at someone's memorial. That's what threw me. Didn't mean to reflect on religion, per se. But how it intruded in the gathering. If that makes sense. Just wanted to be a little clearer.

[ThoughtCriminal]

17. One way I evaluate a "Christian" church

Divide of number of time Jesus is mentioned by number of times Jesus is quoted.

Far to often, you get a Divide by Zero error.

[Douglas Carpenter]

19. they are driven largely by guilt to act that way. Having spent about seven or eight years of my

life as a "born again Christian" (it was more than 33 years ago) I recall this constant nagging guilty feeling. Other than demonic sexual thoughts - the number one thing to feel guilty about was not "witnessing" enough. It is the same reason why many feel they have to pray before their meal even in a public restaurant when it looks completely inappropriate and they secretly feel utterly embarrassed .

"But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 10:33"[/

[cbayer]

22. I am really sorry that that happened.

And you live in a pretty progressive community.

I had a similar experience this weekend when a woman I was volunteering with put on some of the really bad, in your face, christian music in a venue that included lots of different people of faith and no-faith.

She seemed completely oblivious to how this might be offensive to others.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

23. On the other hand, my church has held secularized funerals for

non-believing spouses or children of church members.

But then, we're Episcopalians.