In another couple weeks, I will have been a member of DU for 11 years.

[A HERETIC I AM]

Joined August 4, 2003.

I've used this moniker since I started posting on the internet as a clueless neophyte on AOL, back in 1998 or so. I started posting regularly in the AOL "Chat-rooms", specifically the one that became known to the regulars as "BA" for "Beliefs" (the category) "Atheism" (The specific). Finding a group of like minded people for me back then was like finding an oasis in the desert. I knew nothing of the other message boards that had been in existence for a while - as I said, I was an internet neophyte - but BA became...well....if not a home, most certainly a club that I got VERY comfortable in. I was a trucker back then as I am now and out of the 70 or so regulars across the country, I met no less than half of them face to face in the span of about 24 months.

I've met precisely TWO Du'ers. In eleven years.

BA was constantly invaded by theists trying to either proselytize or just stir shit. The reactions to them was much like the reaction DU has with obvious trolls - we batted them around for a bit like a cat with a half dead mouse until they got sick of it and left. Like most of the chat-rooms on AOL in those days, the seating was limited, so to speak to about 30, if memory serves. Once the 31st person tried to get in, the AOL software would create "BA2".

Those chat-rooms, for those of you unfamiliar, were un-moderated but posts could be alerted on for Terms of Service violations, and many people, people I came to know quite well, were sent off to the nether regions of the internet for saying things some people didn't like. They would get their chat-room access curtailed for 24 hours or 2 days or a week and repeated naughtiness would have their chat-room privileges revoked, if memory serves. You were still able to use AOL's mail and browser, but no chatting, you naughty person!

In hindsight I realize how unbelievably shitty AOL was as an internet portal. I admit had no clue for the longest time that there were other ways of accessing the internet - I thought that AOL was just how it was done. Since I used a laptop when I traveled and WiFi was still a few years off as well as high speed internet in most hotels and motels, AOL offered local dial up numbers I could access almost anywhere I stopped, even in random truck stops.

I don't think I was alone, either. I think there were hundreds of thousands of internet newbies figuring out how to do this new technology. Maybe millions. Then I figured out Internet Explorer and then Firefox and the other browsers and the entire world of the internet seemed to blossom in front of me. This was probably 2000 or so.

I found Du in the Summer of '03 having become rather sick of the limited scope of the conversation on BA, not to mention it was just getting stale. The same old tired arguments and conversations over and over and over and over between us Atheists and the theists (Mostly Christians, admittedly) just got to be...well.....tedious as hell! And predictable.

As hell.

Sooooo predictable.

So on August 4th, 2003 I created the account on DU titled "A HERETIC I AM".

I had a few fits and starts (Not long after I joined I posted a rather off color...OK..REALLY off color joke in a thread and the thread just EXPLODED, with many calling for my head!) but slowly learned my way about the protocols and how to be polite on a forum with a fuck ton more than 30 people watching what you type. I know I am not always polite even these days. I know that when I've had a little too much Bourbon I tend to get crabby and I take it out on people who don't deserve it. For that I am sorry, to anyone I have offended over the years, now and in the future!

I found the Atheist group here on DU and took interest, doing more reading than posting (as I have always tried to do) but got into some shit fights back then that got all the way to the executive suite!

I learned from those days that, regardless of how I feel, as a former Christian, born and raised in an Episcopal household, baptized and confirmed (in the National Cathedral in DC, no less!) and attended such churches on 3 continents and a half dozen states, But NOW ATHEIST......that discretion is the better part of valor.

I found that if I placed any value on being able to retain posting privileges on DU, I had better watch my tongue (or fingers, as the case may be)

I know I have pissed a lot of people off over the years. I also know that some people just don't like me but really can't remember why. (it was the off color joke, that's why. They just don't remember!)

Maybe it's because I am one of the few DU'ers whose member name is in all caps. Maybe it's because I use the word "Heretic" in my name. I don't know. I really don't give a fuck, either. As much time as I spend sitting in front of a computer monitor looking at DU, I also try and spend MORE time doing something else. This place can be very addictive, and some of the things I've seen written on DU, both in this forum and GD and elsewhere just get my blood boiling! I want to let loose with both barrels. I want to tell that person how wrong they are and how much they suck and how badly I want them to.....blah blah blah blah blah blah.........


Blah.


Look you guys........it's just a fucking internet discussion board. Lighten the fuck up already!

You aren't going to solve the eternal question of human existence anymore than we did on AOL back then and you sure as hell aren't going to convince the opposition that your opinion is correct and they have been looking at it all the wrong way. Some of you regulars in this group - I'm pointing a finger at both sides now - just won't let it go. I mean, YOU FUCKING KNOW YOU HAVE HEARD THESE STUPID ARGUMENTS BEFORE! Why carry on and on and on?

Calls for creating yet another group for the Atheist who don't or won't or can't play well with the other Atheists, calls for another group for the Christians who are not quite like the other Christians but want to be ......blah blah blah blah blah blah.......


Jesus H. Christ on a Pogo stick juggling pineapples.


There is a very good reason I don't put up threads or post very often in these religions/non-religious forums. It's because I have heard it all before. I've lived it! And it is quite frankly, tedious. But I read them regularly because there are many people on both sides here who are witty, funny as hell, insightful, clever, smart, well read and well traveled and articulate. I value articulate.

As one wise poster on a recent thread pointed out; (paraphrasing) "You want to know what theists and non-theists on DU have in common? Just about everything else!"

Here's where I am likely to get in trouble, but here goes...

You guys need to fucking lighten the hell up, take a step back, take a deep breath and shut the fuck up for a while, even if a while is 5 minutes.


I'm an Atheist. I think believing in a god or gods is delusional, but I don't put up post after post after post telling everyone who will read it that they are fucked up.

I got over that, long ago.

Stop trying to build bridges over waters that flood 20 times a year. Stop trying to figure ways to better paddle upstream on that same, unforgiving and unrelenting torrent.

You are all (well, for the most part!) kind, decent, loving and wonderful people.

Just try and act like it a little more, if for no other reason than your blood pressure.

That'll do.

All the best.
Paul.

[longship]

1. Happy to kick this one. nt

[Liberal Jesus Freak]

2. Proud to be one of the DUers you've met! n/t

[A HERETIC I AM]

3. LOL...Yes indeed!!!

[TygrBright]

4. I'm not going to weigh in on "what Atheists should/shouldn't"...

Because y'all have enough others telling you that.

But I did want to respond with friendly support for several reasons:

First, because you made me remember my own days in the early 90s on the AOL fora, mostly in the "Front Porch" chatrooms for metphysical/theological/religious discussion. Porchies could get into it on just about ANY topic-- I remember one guy who was about a 300th degree Mason who seemed to be endlessly proselytizing for the fraternity and when called on the fact that there were no female Masons, things got quite lively indeed.

Second, because you've never managed to piss me off. Keep trying, though, it's probably good for me!

Third, because yeah, largely I feel the way you do about the place of Internet Message Boards in the existential reality of our spacetime.

Rock on, Paul!

appreciatively,
Bright

[Iggo]

5. "Stop trying to build bridges over waters that flood 20 times a year."

[trotsky]

6. Agreed man, but with a caveat:

Many of these arguments aren't for the participants. They've for observers/lurkers. Growing up indoctrinated in and surrounded by religion, EVERY atheistic argument was new to me. I would have been just as excited coming across a discussion group like this as I was to find the Internet Infidels 20 years ago.

[cbayer]

7. Thanks for sharing all of this, Paul

I too remember the AOL chat rooms. They were scary, but very exciting places and I learned a lot there.

I agree with you that believers and non-believers on DU have much more in common than they do differences.

The relationship between religion and politics is really important and fascinating these days. I tend to believe that the small difference between believer and nonbeliever is used as a wedge issue and is successful at causing divisions.

Fortunately, we have for the most part here people who really get along despite their religious differences. Those that want to continue to fight and divide can have at it, but no one has to pay them any mind.

Certainly, I am not always an angel in these matters, but I do sincerely try to make this a better place. I am also aware that my mere presence can and is used as a cudgel and that some will find fault with pretty much anything I say.

But I stick around because of people like you are are articulate and thoughtful and open-minded.

As you may know, I have a serious issue with calling religious people delusional and I would only point out that your use of that really fans the fire that you say you want to put out.

But perhaps that is a discussion for another time.

Thanks so much for this OP.

[A HERETIC I AM]

8. I used that term to illustrate why I don't post very often.

I also intentionally used the expression "here's where I might get into trouble" beforehand.

It isn't popular and many do indeed find it insulting, but it is my opinion. The point I am trying to make however is that I don't cram it into every post I make.

Have you ever seen me type that sentiment before? If you have, it has been a looooong while ago.


You know, I'm not sure I am trying to put out any fires. Maybe I'm just trying to have the fans of the fires take a breather! It is interesting that people on internet forums will fuel fires (to continue to use the analogy), fan them and then post in wonderment at how hot the flames are, amazed that this is the case.

I suppose it's more of an "embrace your differences, and if you can't, then don't be surprised when you don't" sort of thread.

[cbayer]

9. I have never seen you say that previously, so I took note of it.

We have had many discussions here about the word and it's use. It's been pointed out to me that I need to inquire whether one is using it colloquially or medically. It is the medical use that I most object to.

I like the "embrace your differences" concept. I wish we could do more of that in this group. There are a few people, well more than a few, that I fell i have really good relationships with, even though we see things very differently. Those people are fun to discuss things with and even heatedly debate. We never leave a conversation with bad feelings.

And that is pretty much how it is in my real life. If there are those that mock and attack me IRL, I'm not aware of them. That's not really the case on the internet, but, like you say, it's just the internet.

Hope you are doing some good driving and some good cooking! I'm off on a little adventure this afternoon which will hopefully involve some excellent food.

[A HERETIC I AM]

10. About to walk out the door right now!

Just down to Tampa and back, but it will be a 10 or 11 hour day.

Be good, be safe.

[Dorian Gray]

11. Awesome

I agree. Everyone needs to chill the (bleep) out.

[Starboard Tack]

12. Great post! Thanks Paul.

I often think people are delusional, some being very close friends, but I keep that thought to myself. Why be cruel to anyone, especially those you love and care about? We all have different tastes. Some folk like football and Nascar, and guns and some think they are delusional. Religion is no different, imo.