Tom Cruise's new role: religious leader

[rug]

December 3 2014 at 02:49pm

London - Tom Cruise is studying to be "co-leader" of Scientology.

The 52-year-old actor has long been a prominent member of the sci-fi cult and has been working hard to reach the next level of leadership in the religion that will bring him to the same level as his best friend, leader David Miscavige.

A source said: "He's been wearing his Freedom Medal of Valour [awarded for services to Scientology] and went to a special ceremony in his honour in London last month.

"He's been studying to become an Operating Thetan level VIII which is the highest rung of the ladder in Scientology.

http://www.iol.co.za/tonight/tom-cruise-s-new-role-religious-leader-1.1790278#.VH99url0z5o

[shenmue]

1. Wow

Zoiks.

[silverweb]

2. His rubber room is almost ready.

[Blue Owl]

56. Perhaps he could change his name to L. Ron Rubbered

[silverweb]

59. DUzy!

[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]

[arcane1]

3. I'd love to know what it is he's "studying"

[cbayer]

4. Wow, just wow!!! Can I say !!!111CRUISE!!!1111?

I hope there is a big old pile on of Cruise support here like there was for the Westboro Baptist Church.

It's so, well, telling.

[rug]

5. I've been wondering what this is for.

[cbayer]

6. It's TOM!!! That proves it. Skinner and EarlG are closet scientologists

who have been slowly and successfully brainwashing all of us.

There are probably more hints all around us, but we do not yet have the ability to see.

I've seen this one being used more and more lately.

[rug]

7. Maybe we should rescue Elad.

[cbayer]

8. Don't be so quick. He may be the mastermind behind it all.

[rug]

9. I bet he's a Heaven's Gate survivor.

[cbayer]

10. Elad? I have it on good authority that his parents were the Adam and Eve of FSM.

[edhopper]

12. What is wrong with his beliefs

is he hurting anyone?

Can you say for certain we do not possess a thetan within us?

[rug]

14. Thetans are a claim that is subject to examination.

http://www.scientology.org/what-is-scientology/the-practice-of-scientology/the-e-meter.html#slide3

You may relax. There are no thetans.

[edhopper]

15. But angels, demons

Virgin births, Hindu gods, and omnipotent entities aren't, got it.

[rug]

16. Show me a demonometer and I'll concede the point.

[NYC_SKP]

18. Right here!

Hand held, portable!

There's a bunch of 'em HERE!

[rug]

20. DEMONOMETER not dynamometer!

[edhopper]

19. Scientologist

Would say the e-meter shows thetans.

You can declare thetans a fantasy, but angels and demons are possible?

Maybe you could give us a list of the nonsensical beliefs we can and can't ridicule.

[rug]

21. If an electrician said that as well, I'd believe him.

[cleanhippie]

23. #139898347463 that a religious believer deflected from exactly that question.

Did you really thing you would get an honest response to such a logical and reasonable question?

I knew by the first reply you weren't going to get anywhere.

[rug]

29. One of these days you'll realize an answer you don't agree with is not a deflection.

Which day, God only knows.

[cleanhippie]

30. Lol

Last edited Thu Dec 4, 2014, 12:12 AM - Edit history (1)

If nothing else, you're always good for a laugh.

[snooper2]

45. you should ridicule them all it's all fucking stupid

[AtheistCrusader]

31. Show me a cracker turning into human remains.

[demwing]

37. Yeah! Wait...

What?

[AtheistCrusader]

39. Transubstantiation. Where the cracker and grape juice becomes the body/blood of jesus at Communion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transubstantiation

It is equally stupid as a 'Thetan' auditing device.

[demwing]

48. Got it.

But boy was I lost for a minute

[rug]

57. You should read the link you posted.

The Catholic Church teaches that the substance or reality of the bread is changed into that of the body of Christ and the substance of the wine into that of his blood, while all that is accessible to the senses (the outward appearances - species in Latin) remains unchanged.

If you're still confused, read this:

In philosophy, essence is the attribute or set of attributes that make an entity or substance what it fundamentally is, and which it has by necessity, and without which it loses its identity. Essence is contrasted with accident: a property that the entity or substance has contingency, without which the substance can still retain its identity. The concept originates with Aristotle, who used the Greek expression to ti ên einai (τὸ τί ἦν εἶναι, literally meaning "the what it was to be" and corresponding to the scholastic term quiddity) or sometimes the shorter phrase to ti esti (τὸ τί ἐστι, literally meaning "the what it is" and corresponding to the scholastic term haecceity) for the same idea. This phrase presented such difficulties for his Latin translators that they coined the word essentia (English "essence&quot to represent the whole expression. For Aristotle and his scholastic followers, the notion of essence is closely linked to that of definition (ὁρισμός horismos).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essence

Now, show me an essenceometer.

[AtheistCrusader]

61. Exactly.

"Now, show me an essenceometer."

And, if one did, how would one test/refute it?

[rug]

62. Blame it on Aristotle.

Specifically, Book VII of Metaphysics.

http://classics.mit.edu/Aristotle/metaphysics.html

As rigorous as his Logic and Physics

https://archive.org/stream/AristotleOrganon/AristotleOrganoncollectedWorks#page/n0/mode/2up

http://classics.mit.edu/Aristotle/physics.html

[Lordquinton]

22. you got proof on that claim?

[rug]

28. You able to read a link?

[Lordquinton]

34. you have a link that proves conclusively they don't exist?

Cause I don't see one.

[rug]

58. It's right below the one that proves conclusively that God does not exist.

I don't see that one either.

[cbayer]

38. IMO, he is hurting people. What do you think about Westboro Baptist Church?

They ok with you too.

Sometimes one jumps the shark in the attempt to make others look bad.

[edhopper]

49. None of them are okay with me

not them, the WBC, the Mormons, the RCC, the Jews, the Muslims...etc
That is, I think they are all beliefs in things that don't exists and events that aren't true.

Who is Cruise hurting, compared to other religious people?

You are the one who parses which beliefs should be left alone and which are to be ridiculed.
And sometimes you hit the nail one the head. But I'll let others decide which i did here.

[cbayer]

50. Well, if you lump them all together and don't have the critical reasoning

to be able to see the differences, I think you are very vulnerable and very likely to make errors in judgement.

And if you don't understand how scientology harms people, then I don't know what to tell you. What do you know about them? What do you know about their recruiting practices, their rules of behavior once you sign up, their position on psychiatric illness and treatment? If you know these things and still think they are equivalent to Jews, we really have a problem here.

I do parse, ed. I take a critical look at individuals and institutions and make measured decisions about which I think are doing good and which are doing bad and which are doing both. I break it down, look at the components and try to understand, then I take a position.

I make my argument for my position and sometimes challenge those that have a different position. I often change my position when new information comes in.

It's those that don't parse that worry me the most. It is those who look with a prejudiced eye at all religion and can't tell the difference or make a reasoned judgement about how some might be ok and others most certainly are not who are rigid and dogmatic. Want to talk about indoctrination, cognitive dissonance and intellectual dishonesty? All you need to do is to equate scientology with nuns on the bus.

You can let "others" decide whatever you want. You want a win by the peanut gallery? I am sure you will get it.

[edhopper]

51. Is Cruise harming people himself

do his beliefs harm people? (isn't that your criteria?)
What actions does he personally take that do harm?

If you want to talk about the religion in general, don't you think we can point to every religion on earth and show harm it has done?
There are nonsensical beliefs within all religions, which of these should my critical thinking accept?

[cbayer]

52. Yes, I believe that scientology and those that are leaders harm people.

IMO, they do much more harm than they do good. In fact, I don't see any good at all.

Of course you can find harm in pretty much every religion, though there may be a few exceptions. But can you find good?

If you can't see any good in any of them, then I would suggest that your vision is impaired. And if you can see good in scientology, you may have some sort of special vision.

I'm not asking that a you accept any beliefs you see as nonsensical, only that you use some critical thinking to distinguish between religions, instead of taking the easy route of just condemning them all.

[edhopper]

53. You do see what I am doing, I hope?

You do see how making fun of this while defending exorcism is problematic?

I hope you see the point i am trying to make?

[cbayer]

54. I see what you are doing. You are trying to get me into a corner

where I say that scientology and the RCC are equivalent.

I reiterate: I see both good and bad in the RCC. I see bad but no good in scientology. They are not equivalent.

Despite the meme to the contrary, I do not defend exorcism. It exists and I think the potential for harm is great. I strongly support the guidelines that require medical and psychiatric evaluation, which if done properly removes pretty much every request.

I am concerned that these guidelines are not being followed.

If those guidelines are followed, I think the risk of harm is greatly diminished. Does that mean there is good? I think probably not, but I think I once made the statement that it might be cathartic for an otherwise healthy individual.

Again, I am most concerned about harm.

So how does that fit your narrative, er, I mean point.

[edhopper]

55. Actually

what I am saying is maybe you shouldn't be so quick to attack those of us who see the harm and nonsense in other beliefs.
Why are our view of some beliefs uncalled for while your view of other beliefs perfectly fine.
You don't have to agree that things like belief in angels and demons is ridiculous, but maybe you should be so quick to condemn those that do.

[cbayer]

60. You say attack, I say challenge. You say condemn, I say be critical.

Since attacks aren't' allowed here, I really try to avoid that, but you certainly do choose words that demonize me.

If you see harm and nonsense in some beliefs, make your case. I probably agree with you about many of them.

If you see harm and nonsense in all beliefs, then I think you are working from a position of prejudice. It is illogical and a failure of critical thinking to be unable to discern the harm and nonsense from the good and reasonable.

You speak in first person plural. You need to identify who exactly it is you represent before I can address this part of your post. I assure you that you don't speak for atheists in general.

To address just you, first person singular, I just disagree with your views on some things, and sometimes rather vehemently. It is you that interprets that as saying your views are uncalled for while mine are perfectly fine. I don't condemn you and, if I did, I would not do it quickly.

[Curmudgeoness]

17. Support for Westboro???

Seriously? Who? Where? When?

[cleanhippie]

25. It appears she has confused advocating for a standard and equal application of respect for religious

beliefs as supporting the particular group in questions ideology.

Perhaps if she wasn't so biased toward religions she already approves of...

[cbayer]

40. He deleted all his posts.

In his attempt to make me look bad, he twisted himself into a pretzel and supported WBC. Others put their toes in that water too, but none jumped in like he did.

He also threatened to have me banned. Real charmer, that one. Don't think he'll be back around here for awhile.

[Curmudgeoness]

41. Not here now....

that is just what I would have expected.

So, in reality, there are no current DUers who were supporting WBC. Good to know since that is what I would have expected.

[cbayer]

42. Oh, he's around. Closer than you may think.

But I don't think he is going to post in religion for awhile.

It's too hot in here.

[edhopper]

11. level VIII

that is an awesome achievement.
Is that like a Bishop or a Cardinal?
Does he get to fancy dress with a cool hat?

When he does, do other scientologists get to still ask him for favors?

[longship]

13. One has to study for that?

I thought that all one had to do was to be stupid enough to fall for the programming. That, or the blackmail and all the other outright thuggery of the evil, dangerous cult.

James Randi once told a Scientology adherent at one of his public appearances, "I met L. Ron Hubbard twice. Both times he was drunk." Yup! An ad hominem, but a deserving one.

Get a bowl, some milk, and a spoon, because Tom Cruise is cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs. (Thank you Jay Novella.) Unfortunately Scientology does not believe in mental illness. Maybe that explains why so many of them are so barking mad.

Sheesh!!

[VanillaRhapsody]

32. well that and all the money Tom has given them!

[longship]

35. Well, one has to pay to play... nt

[VanillaRhapsody]

46. particularly in Scientology...

though I hear Mormons and Southern Baptists are catching up!

[cbayer]

43. Well, you've got a whole crew in here that can't distinguish between

scientology and, say, catholicism.

That is disturbing.

The inability to use critical thinking in order to see the differences makes them particularly vulnerable to be taken in by charlatans. I hope someone is watching out for them.

The scientologists rabid rejection of psychiatry alone makes them loathsome.

[longship]

44. It's worse than that.

They replace it with freaking Xenu!!! And Thetans!

[VanillaRhapsody]

47. works for loony Tom Cruise I suppose...

but I bet if he took some Lithium he would stop finding Xenu and Theta so interesting...and it would be MUCH cheaper..

[hrmjustin]

24. He is moving on up I see.

I thought I heard he was distancing himself from them.

[cleanhippie]

26. He is distancing himself from them.

The distance just happens to be vertical.

[hrmjustin]

27. I don't know much about the he religion.

[AndreaCG]

33. It's nuttier than Mormonism

Not just in its back story (involving space aliens) but in its insistence that psychiatry is a sham. There was a big feud between Cruise and Brooke Shields when she was talking about her post partum depression. He came across as a real ass. Also Scientology is very cult like in that it circumscribes the lives of its adherents (not so much the famous ones but those who don't have as much money, though they squeeze way more than a 10% tithe from them) and is very harsh on those who try to leave. Also they love to sue people.

There are some interesting you tube videos by the relatives of L Ron Hubbard who basically say it was all a scam.

[Dorian Gray]

36. He's so robotic

yet goofy. It would be difficult to take him seriously as a religious leader.