What ISIS Really Wants

[muriel_volestrangler]

Since this is largely about the theological beliefs of ISIS, this seems a good place for a discussion of it. A long article, from The Atlantic:

The reality is that the Islamic State is Islamic. Very Islamic. Yes, it has attracted psychopaths and adventure seekers, drawn largely from the disaffected populations of the Middle East and Europe. But the religion preached by its most ardent followers derives from coherent and even learned interpretations of Islam.

Virtually every major decision and law promulgated by the Islamic State adheres to what it calls, in its press and pronouncements, and on its billboards, license plates, stationery, and coins, “the Prophetic methodology,” which means following the prophecy and example of Muhammad, in punctilious detail. Muslims can reject the Islamic State; nearly all do. But pretending that it isn’t actually a religious, millenarian group, with theology that must be understood to be combatted, has already led the United States to underestimate it and back foolish schemes to counter it. We’ll need to get acquainted with the Islamic State’s intellectual genealogy if we are to react in a way that will not strengthen it, but instead help it self-immolate in its own excessive zeal.
...
Denying the holiness of the Koran or the prophecies of Muhammad is straightforward apostasy. But Zarqawi and the state he spawned take the position that many other acts can remove a Muslim from Islam. These include, in certain cases, selling alcohol or drugs, wearing Western clothes or shaving one’s beard, voting in an election—even for a Muslim candidate—and being lax about calling other people apostates. Being a Shiite, as most Iraqi Arabs are, meets the standard as well, because the Islamic State regards Shiism as innovation, and to innovate on the Koran is to deny its initial perfection. (The Islamic State claims that common Shiite practices, such as worship at the graves of imams and public self-flagellation, have no basis in the Koran or in the example of the Prophet.) That means roughly 200 million Shia are marked for death. So too are the heads of state of every Muslim country, who have elevated man-made law above Sharia by running for office or enforcing laws not made by God.

Following takfiri doctrine, the Islamic State is committed to purifying the world by killing vast numbers of people. The lack of objective reporting from its territory makes the true extent of the slaughter unknowable, but social-media posts from the region suggest that individual executions happen more or less continually, and mass executions every few weeks. Muslim “apostates” are the most common victims. Exempted from automatic execution, it appears, are Christians who do not resist their new government. Baghdadi permits them to live, as long as they pay a special tax, known as the jizya, and acknowledge their subjugation. The Koranic authority for this practice is not in dispute.

http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/02/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

A lot of the article is about the establishment of a caliphate, which makes a huge difference to this interpretation of Islam. it binds the caliphate to constantly expand its territory, not make lasting treaties with non-Muslims, and kill apostate Muslims (which is a lot of Muslims, in their view). But the Muslims following this interpretation are also duty-bound to go and live in the caliphate, and not go back to other countries. So it's not a terroristic threat to the world in general; just an implacable war foe to its neighbours. This puts it in a fundamentally different category than al Qaeda.

[DustyJoe]

2. what they want

According to all the DC and State Dept. geniuses
All that ISIS really wants is a Jobs program or,
create a safer and more prosperous future for ISIS murderers.

Or some kind of blather like that

[pinto]

3. Good read. (nt)

[Htom Sirveaux]

4. Denying that ISIS is "true Islam" avoids the clash of civilizations that ISIS wants.

They want to frame the conflict as "the West v. Islam" with themselves as the ultimate representatives of Islam, and force everyone to choose sides using that frame. Arguing for their legitimacy as representatives of Islam plays right into their hands.

[muriel_volestrangler]

5. Acknowledging they are Muslims does not force us to say they are "the ultimate representatives"

of Islam. It says they are Muslims. Acknowledging Westboro Baptist Church, or the KKK, are Christians does not say they are representatives of Christianity. They are a couple of examples of what Christianity can be. ISIS is one example of what Islam can be.

[Htom Sirveaux]

6. But the actual question is...

"are they good Muslims, that others who want to consider themselves Muslims should emulate as part of claiming the title? Or are they bad Muslims, who are to be rejected rather than emulated by anyone who wants to consider themselves Muslim?"

[muriel_volestrangler]

7. That's your question. The question for the article is "what do they want?"

and then, when we think we know that, we can work out how to stop them and their bad effects. I admit the article does assume that we agree the killing is bad.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

9. There are two, mutually incompatible, things you could mean by "good/bad Muslims".

One is "Muslims who are good/bad people"; the other is "Muslims who are/are not living in accordance with the teachings of Mohammed".

As far as I can see (and I admit that I'm not a historian*), the two are mutually incompatible - ISIS are closer to emulating Mohammed than the non-evil Muslim majority.

N.B. The relevant qualification here is "historian", not "theologian" - Muslim theologians are probably less capable of objectively interpreting the evidence about Mohammed than the average man in the street.

[HuckleB]

8. Kick for current importance.

[Dorian Gray]

11. Fantastic article

worth a read by everyone.

[struggle4progress]

12. There are many material reasons the world left medievalism behind --

and any dogmatic "caliphate" devoted to continual expansive warfare will eventually learn something about those reasons the hard way