Most people believe Christ rose from the dead, polls say

[SamG]

Polls suggest Americans’ belief that Christ was physically raised from the dead has slipped somewhat in recent years but remains strong.

A 2010 Rasmussen Reports survey found that 78 percent of Americans believe Christ was raised from the dead, 10 percent don’t believe it and 11 percent aren’t sure.

Evangelical Christians overwhelmingly believe in the Resurrection — 97 percent — along with 87 percent of Catholics and 86 percent of other Protestants.

Read more from this Tulsa World article at http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=298&articleid=20120407_296_0_Nearly446522

I wonder if that holds true for religious believer posters here at DU. I suspect not.

The question for me would be: why is this so important to Christians? Isn't the collection of lessons and teachings from Jesus, the guy from Nazareth, (or somewhere), good enough without all this supernatural miracle story? Why must Jesus have risen from the dead in order for his teachings to be so important ?

[arcane1]

2. I'm rather surprised that 3 percent of evangelicals don't believe

I always assumed that was considered a given among that group

[SamG]

3. They must be closet Unitarians!

Or perhaps "doubting Thomases" would more accurately describe them.

[ButterflyBlood]

21. I go to a fairly liberal evangelical church

They do exist. But even at my church I have a tough time seeing many people not believe in the physical resurrection. I suspect that 3% might be people raised in an evangelical church who don't believe in evangelical theology and might not even be Christians but still identify as such for other reasons.

[provis99]

4. Paul in Corinthians gives the answer to your question.

To paraphrase him, he basically says if Jesus didn't rise from the dead as proof of eternal life, then we basically are wasting our lives believing in bullshit. Christians are after eternal life, not philosophy of living.

[CJCRANE]

5. What did Jesus say about Paul? nt

[humblebum]

44. "Christians are after eternal life, not philosophy of living" - actually

they are "after" both.

[darkstar3]

46. But only because one supposedly leads to the other.

[humblebum]

54. For someone whose POV

goes no farther than what they can see, hear, smell, taste, or touch, I would expect that response.

[darkstar3]

55. You need to stop lying.

[humblebum]

56. So do you. nt

[darkstar3]

58. How original...

[humblebum]

59. As well as being right to the point and

true.

[darkstar3]

61. Prove it. ;)

[humblebum]

62. Excuse me, I thought you didn't believe in a supernatural existence or anything

that could not be empirically and objectively proven. I must be mistaken.

[darkstar3]

63. So now your claims that I'm a liar are supernatural? That's a new dodge.

[humblebum]

66. You seem to be the only one dodging here. nt

[eqfan592]

64. Not believing in things that can't be objectively proven is not something to be ashamed of...

...and isn't really a good attack on somebody either.

[humblebum]

67. Never said it was something to be ashamed of. But chiding others because they

do believe in existence beyond that which can be observed or experienced by the senses reflects badly back upon those who engage in such actions.

[provis99]

47. apparently, you have not read Corinthians.

[humblebum]

53. And apparently, that is all you have read and nothing more. nt

[provis99]

57. I've read the whole Bible, many times.

I find it to be a book of evil and horror.

[humblebum]

60. Well good for you. And you can say that there is nothing in Scripture

that constitutes "a philosophy of living?"

[provis99]

65. nope. There is no philosophy in it.

Only commands.

[humblebum]

68. Very shallow indeed. nt

[regnaD kciN]

6. It's true for me...

[Silent3]

7. They only believe metaphorically that Jesus literally rose from the dead

It's not a petty matter of who's right and who's wrong, it's about being "authentic". It's true in their hearts. In a factual sort of way. But it's all about the good things Christians do, the meaning that believing in the Resurrection brings into people's lives. But it's also historically true. And a piece of a greater truth, the greater truth which also includes the deeply-felt truth for some people that Jesus didn't rise from the dead. Which he did do, you know.

You atheists wouldn't understand.

[skepticscott]

15. Sounds like a Mystery to me

Or is it a MYSTERY? Or a MysterY? Or was it a MyStErY? Can't seem to keep them all straight..

[Warren Stupidity]

40. I'm sure you think you said something meaningful there.

First you state that Christians do not believe in a literal resurrection. Then you claim "but it's also historically true". And then there is this greater truth that apparently encompasses both a literal resurrection and no resurrection.

Seems like just a bunch of strung together nonsense.

Here's is a simple question: do you believe that Jesus died and then was alive again?

[Silent3]

41. Maybe it would have helped if the post you're referring to contained this helpful disclaimer:

In case knowing I was being sarcastic doesn't clear up where I stand:

I have serious doubts that Jesus was even a real person. That Jesus, Lazarus, or anyone else has ever been raised from the dead is highly unlikely.

[Warren Stupidity]

45. Internet Law 2. Poe's Law.

Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humour, it is impossible to create a parody of fundamentalism that someone won't mistake for the real thing.

[thelordofhell]

8. To be fair, a lot of people believe in zombies

Just sayin'

[RainDog]

49. zombies exist in Haiti - they're poisoned

http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2004/12/09/1260445.htm

There have been legends about zombies for centuries, but it was only in 1980 that a real-life case was documented.

The story begins in 1962, in Haiti. A man called Clairvius Narcisse was sold to a zombie master by his brothers, because Clairvius refused to sell his share of the family land. Soon after Clairvius "officially" died, and was buried. However, he had been later secretly unburied, and was actually working as a zombie slave on a sugar plantation with many other zombies. In 1964, his zombie master died, and he wandered across the island in a psychotic daze for the next 16 years. The drugs that made him psychotic were gradually wearing off. In 1980, he accidentally stumbled across his long-lost sister in a market place, and recognized her. She didn't recognise him, but he identified himself to her by telling her early childhood experiences that only he could possibly know.

Dr. Wade Davis, an ethnobiologist from Harvard, went to Haiti to research this story. He discovered how to make a zombie. First, make them "dead", then make them "mad" so that their minds are malleable. Often, a local "witch doctor" secretly gives them the drugs.

He made the victim "dead" with a mixture of toad skin and puffer fish. You can put it in their food, or rub it on their skin, especially the soft, undamaged skin on the inside of the arm near the elbow. The victims soon appear dead, with an incredibly slow breath, and an incredibly slow and faint heartbeat. In Haiti, people are buried very soon after death, because the heat and the lack of refrigeration makes the bodies decay very rapidly. This suits the zombie-making process. You have to dig them up within eight hours of the burial, or else they'll die of asphyxiation.

Then, after they're dug up, they're sent to work as slaves and fed drugs that cause memory loss.

[dark forest]

9. Why is it

so important to Christians?

I suspect that it might be because you can get good moral teachings from a dozen, or more, other sources, but they are all just opinion.

My observation is that Christians seem to believe that the resurrection gives them some authority, but there are numeorus scholars who disagree.

You makes your bets, and you puts down your money.

[SamG]

10. Yes, I suspect it's sort of like an initiation or a...

kind of audience participation pitch. IF one believes that Jesus really actually rose from the dead, IF one puts that amount of mental effort into a belief in an event that just about any normal sane adult would know CANNOT happen for anyone else, IF one just goes THAT FAR in suspension of rationality of the human mind, then one has done enough to be promised a salvation in one's own afterlife. That's all that is asked, and if one is willing to buy-in, one is promised that one gets the prize after the final life chapter.

[tama]

50. "sane adult"

is interesting myth... and as a myth, more of the ridiculous and insane kind...

[dark forest]

51. Well, I'm not

saying anything about the reasonableness or probability of the beliefs here.

I'm saying that this is what they are. Like it or not.

[izquierdista]

11. All hail, He who has risen!!

I just left him on top of the radiator overnight, and now look at him!

[rug]

12. This is why:

1 Corinthians, chapter 15

12 But if Christ is preached as raised from the dead, how can some among you say there is no resurrection of the dead?

13 If there is no resurrection of the dead, then neither has Christ been raised.

14 And if Christ has not been raised, then empty [too] is our preaching; empty, too, your faith.

15 Then we are also false witnesses to God, because we testified against God that he raised Christ, whom he did not raise if in fact the dead are not raised.

16 For if the dead are not raised, neither has Christ been raised,

17 and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is vain; you are still in your sins.

18 Then those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished.

19 If for this life only we have hoped in Christ, we are the most pitiable people of all.

You can put me down as a believer.

[SamG]

13. Pretty much as I stated in Post #9

It's a promise, and in order to get what is promised, one only has to buy into belief in one supernatural event.

As I read your quote, (thanks for supplying it!),

Some interesting outright threats contained there in verse in Corinthians.

[rug]

14. It's Post#10 and you got several things wrong.

Among them, as this passage asserts, that it "CANNOT happen for anyone else".

Hold fast to your certitude.

[SamG]

17. The word "CANNOT" is a pretty strong word of certitude,...

isn't it?

[rug]

22. It is. As definite as impossible.

[SamG]

24. Ah, but in this world, we are taught to believe that

ALL things are possible. Some of us just want evidence to go along with revelations of such possibilities.

When you have some of that, get back to us.

[rug]

25. Clearly you were raised on another world if you believe all things are possible.

With or without evidence.

[SamG]

26. No, same world as yours, where we believe in possibilities, but

where you and I depart down different roads, it seems you don't need any such evidence to continue in any belief, whereas I do.

[rug]

27. Oddly enough, a world with limited possibilities is more reality-based than what you believe.

[SamG]

33. So you agree with me, the logic of science

limits us from making and asserting any and all claims that are "possible" when science proves otherwise?

But you seem to make exceptions only when it comes to your religious beliefs, for some reason.

[rug]

34. No, science is simply a technique, and a limited technique.

In the matter of testing and replicating religious beliefs, which is its essential technique, it is completely inapposite.

[skepticscott]

16. Except that

Hardly any modern Xstians believe that stuff. That fact has been certified by Real Theologians on this board. Are you saying they're full of shit?

[SamG]

18. Do you think real Christians only say some things in

polls, depending upon who is asking, or..

Do you think here at DU we have people more knowledgeable about people and their own Christian religion than just about anywhere else in the world?

[rug]

23. No, I'm saying that anyone who says "Hardly any modern Xstians believe that stuff" is full of shit.

[skepticscott]

29. I'll let you break the news

to That's my Opinion. He's the one who has characterized all of that as a distorted version of modern Christianity, not me. I never said that I believed it, just that it had been declared on this board by Serious Theologians Much Wiser Than Me.

Happy Easter.

[rug]

30. I don't think he needs you as an interpreter.

[skepticscott]

31. Translation:

"Oh crap, I fell into that one big time, but I just CAN'T let THIS guy seem to have trapped me into saying that a fellow apologist is full of shit...time for a non-responsive, passive aggressive one-liner!"

Rounds are over.

[rug]

32. Tell you what. Why don't you just post the link that proves it is not you who is full of shit?

I'll wait.

[skepticscott]

35. Translation:

"Oh, please god, PLEASE let him be bluffing! That hope is all I have to save me from even more humiliation!"

Sorry, he must be on vacation.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12183840#post14

[rug]

36. Translation:

"It is you who is full of shit."

There's nothing in that thread that remotely resembles what you claimed was said.

[eqfan592]

42. Ummm, did you read the thread?

I found what he was talking about in a few seconds...

[rug]

43. All of it, including the hidden post.

Did you read SS' claim as to what TMO said?

[tama]

52. Guru yoga

Paul (and those who follow Paul) apparently hope to achieve some kind of salvation (in terms of Buddhism, a Pure Land salvation) through identifying with Christ and/or Jesus - if there is some connection - and some sort of death experience of Christ. Which death experience is nothing so special when compared to other traditions and all sorts of anecdotal and other evidence.

That's OK and no problem, but when a claim is made (by Paul and others) about Christ and Christians having any sort of copyright and patent on such transformations, then things go the way of puke...

[just1voice]

19. Zombie movies are popular too, rising from the dead to eat people

That's a good question for a child, ask one to tell the difference between a brain-eating zombie rising from the dead and Christ, LOL. In fact, ask an adult for an even dumber answer.

[FirstLight]

20. Interesting ...the message at church today was "it doesn't matter"

I went to the Unity...we used to go to the Lutheran Church, but they kind of failed with their sunday school...and i am way more eclectic anyway...so ya...

But the message was really cool...The speaker said it really doesn't matter if you believe Jesus was real, or if you don't, or if you believe in his ressurrection being real or metaphorical... BECAUSE his LIFE was the real ministry... and that Jesus himself was always preaching about LIFE and how to Live as a being of Light and Love and god, and to recognize that. He spoke of how we could ALL identify with that, and we do. That the schmutz of life, and the hardships and the trials we all endure are our own opportunities to RISE AGAIN... each time we choose to shine brighter despite the hurt or shame or pain of our lives...we raise our selves up to better opportunities and to being "brighter" than we were before...

I am not doing the profundity of the message any justice...cuz it really rang sweet and true for me happy easter to all! re-new !!

[jcboon]

28. I believe it

[emilyg]

37. I believe.

[ButterflyBlood]

38. So do I.

nt

[eqfan592]

39. Me too!!!!!!

Wait, this is what we're talking about, right???

[RainDog]

48. How do people in this same group view other resurrection stories, I wonder

To me, it's blatantly obvious that if you teach a child from a very young age that something happened and that their eternal life relies upon believing this - they're going to believe it.

it's insurance.

but I wonder how these same people react to stories from other cultures and times that tell the same or similar stories? do they believe all of those stories, too?

If not, why not? - The "why not," to me, is because they weren't taught to believe them, to view those other cultures as valid, to have permission from their own culture to deny every bit of reality that they must otherwise accept to make decisions and function within their physical world. The "why not" is also about creating a privileged view of one's cultural myths.

On the other hand, if they do believe the other resurrection stories, their culture's story isn't all that special and so why would any of the fundamental principles of science that undergird the workings of the world matter?

My own move away from religious belief was triggered by the realization that I was taught within the cocoon of my culture to believe things that I knew were absolutely ridiculous when I could examine them without the emotional investment of the belief I was told was necessary to prevent that great fear of consciousness - death.