Religion
Related: About this forumCatholic Church Ponders Future After Same-Sex Marriage Vote in Ireland
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/25/world/europe/church-faces-murky-future-as-irish-support-same-sex-marriage.html?_r=0By DANNY HAKIM
MAY 24, 2015
Gerry Adams, head of the Sinn Fein, greeted supporters of same-sex marriage at Dublin Castle on Saturday. The referendum was passed with 62 percent of votes. Credit Paul Faith/Agence France-Presse Getty Images
DUBLIN The morning after Ireland learned it had become the first nation to approve same-sex marriage by popular vote, Diarmuid Martin, the archbishop of Dublin, looked out at the future of the Roman Catholic Church.
It could be found at St. Marys Pro-Cathedral here, in downtown Dublin, as two rows of children awaited confirmation before him in the lofty, column-lined church.
Boys and girls, I made my confirmation 60 years ago, he told them, adding, Your world is different from mine.
Not far away, the streets were quiet after a long night of celebrating. Revelers filled the bars, beeped horns, waved rainbow flags and drank Guinness after the result was announced on Saturday. The size of the victory energized supporters, with the referendum affirmed by 62 percent of the electorate and passed in all but one of Irelands 43 districts.
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Cartoonist
(7,317 posts)For many, and Ive said this before, inside the church becomes almost alien territory to them in todays society, he said. If the leadership of the Irish Catholic church dont recognize that, then theyre in severe denial. Have I got a magic formula? Certainly not."
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I have a formula, and there's no magic involved. Just ashcan all the bigotry, misogyny, and piety in the Bible.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)We shall see if the RCC does as well.
Not so sure about the piety. That's kind of up to the individual.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)conservative reactionary denominations are the vast majority.
Response to cbayer (Original post)
Hoppy This message was self-deleted by its author.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)they "believe" when it is clear that it is in their best interest to do so.
What is funny about the NPR story your recall (which I can't find) is the assumption that the cardinals or anyone else could put anyone in hell or get them out. They don't make the rules, they just interpret them. If they are wrong, I would guess that their god did the right thing anyway.
Would love to see this story, but, as I said, I can't find it.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)skepticscott
(13,029 posts)Homosexuality, same-sex marriage and the ordination of women.
In fact, what "beliefs" that really matter HAS the RCC officially changed their stance on?
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)Hoppy
(3,595 posts)Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)Abstinence from meat on penitential days is still very much on the books. The Vatican has not changed their mind on the issue. They have simply allowed individual dioceses to determine what days are considered penitential, who is considered healthy enough to fast, and, hilariously enough, what constitutes "meat".
In New Orleans, for example, you can eat alligator on Ash Wednesday without shame or fear of divine retribution because the Dioceses of New Orleans, in its wisdom, correctly determined that alligator is not meat, but fish. Fish lives in the water. Alligator lives in the water. Alligator is fish. Case closed.
nil desperandum
(654 posts)- Tell me, what do you do with witches?
- Burn them!
- And what do you burn, apart from witches?
- Wood!
- So why do witches burn?
- 'Cause they're made of wood?
- How do we tell if she is made of wood?
- Does wood sink in water?
- No, it floats.
- What also floats in water?
- A duck!
- Exactly.
- So, logically--
- If she weighs the same as a duck...
- she's made of wood.
- And therefore?
- A witch!
- A duck! A duck! - Here's a duck.
- Burn the witch !
-
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)In the 20th century, they went suddenly against it.
Hoppy
(3,595 posts)I drive 50k miles per year, have XM and listen to a great deal of NPR, APR and PRI.
The radio becomes like wallpaper while driving. I do recall that the comment was dialog in conjunction with someone flogging their new book.
Looking through Diane Rehm's list of guests, the most likely would be Krakaur on April 23. But that is just a guess.
I also listen to Takeaway, On Point, Fresh Air and Here and Now.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)I know exactly how you feel, but I am often amazed as how much I actually retain, lol.
We like the same programs as our background noise, that's for sure.
For music, I like The Loft - particularly David Johansen and Meg Griffin. Worth every penny, imo.
Hoppy
(3,595 posts)It was about the Catholic Church having dug itself into a logical hole from which they cannot be extricated.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)They merely say they were wrong. They've done it before and will do it again.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)You are correct that this doesn't apply to post-death hell type punishments, but the church actively can, when allowed, absolve temporal punishments for forgiven sins. They take an active hand in it, not just interpreting the rules.
There is a common misperception that it applies to hell, and you are correct that it does not.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)I'm glad they can and do absolve things after they change their mind. That's good for those who are still alive and desire it, but it doesn't undo the damage done to those who have been punished for rules that later change.
Hoppy
(3,595 posts)So, if they really believe, do they give up telling their truth in order to regain attendance? Or is it better to have 1/10th of the pews filled with people who really believe?
Then you have the leaders who know its bullshit. There is the story on NPR a few months ago. Pope Bene was discussing downgrading one of the sins which gets you in hell. A cardinal asked him, "We have put millions of souls into hell for this sin. How then, are you going to get them out?"
If the story is true, the problem becomes one of how to reverse a couple of thousand years of bullshit. Doing so raises the question, if they were wrong on ----, what else are they wrong on?
The gateway to questioning was opened when they gave up on the Tridentine Mass. Next, one could actually eat meat on Friday without sin. If that is no longer a sin, what else is no longer a sin? What else have they got wrong?