An interesting analysis of the "nones"

[kwassa]

in the recent Pew report.

http://religiondispatches.org/u-s-christianity-is-dead-long-live-u-s-christianity/

On the other hand, things may not be as bad as they appear. Buried in the Pew report are responses from those who said that they have “no religion in particular” to the question, “How important is religion in your life – very important, somewhat important, not too important, or not at all important?” Forty percent responded that religion is “very” or “somewhat” important in their lives. This might come as a surprise to pundits and scholars who assume the religiously unaffiliated don’t believe in God or are somehow “secular.”

The data—including what is available through the Pew report— shows that disbelief in God is relatively stable across time and generation. Indeed the current report shows that atheists (3%) and agnostics (4%) still comprise a relatively small proportion of the American population. Thus, the increase in religious disaffiliation is not necessarily linked to an increase in disbelief per se.

Rather, the phenomenon of the religious “nones” represents the larger reality that increasing numbers of Americans are disenchanted with and disengaged from big institutions in general, whether political, financial, government or religious. That is, unless those institutions directly benefit them. To the extent that churches represent large and often out-of-touch institutions that seem more interested in keeping themselves in business than in serving the needs and desires of members and (potential) attendees, people will continue to opt out of them.

[trotsky]

1. The percentage of individuals willing to identify as "atheist" just about doubled.

From something like 1.7% to 3%. Considering the centuries of negative baggage believers have heaped on the word, this is an amazing change in just a few years.

I understand that was a pretty tough survey for many religious individuals to swallow. Especially since it doesn't show what liberal believers (and defenders of religion) want desperately to believe: that people are leaving the right-wing/conservative faiths for liberal ones. Instead, it shows the liberal mainline groups hemorrhaging members, and the right-wing churches holding their own. (The RCC being either the classic example or the outlier, depending on if you think they are left or right wing.)

[rug]

2. 3%!

The days of religious oppression are numbered.

[cbayer]

3. A good analysis of the data from this report.

It will be interesting to see how the "nones" trend over time.

[Goblinmonger]

4. So this is an article from those REALLY wanting the nones to still be religious.

On the other hand, things may not be as bad as they appear.

This isn't analysis by anyone in the "nones." Just hope upon hope that it ain't true.

Personally, I don't think it's bad that people are leaving religion. YMMV.

[trotsky]

5. Let them keep whistling past the graveyard, for all I care.

It means they won't address the actual reasons why people are leaving, and thus the trend will continue. As long as organized religion continues to become less and less of a factor in people's lives, progress will continue to march on. I don't think it's a coincidence at all that during the same 10 or so years that religion has taken such a huge hit, we have seen support for marriage equality skyrocket.

[muriel_volestrangler]

6. "disbelief in God is relatively stable across time and generation" - false and false

To create a larger category of the nonreligious, I’ve combined atheists, agnostics and people who said both that they didn’t belong to a religion and that religion wasn’t important to them. This group made up 15.8 percent of the United States population in 2014, up from 10.3 percent only seven years earlier, according to Pew.

And the share seems likely to continue growing — because young people are much more likely to be secular than middle-aged and older adults.

A remarkable 25 percent of Americans born after 1980, the group often known as millennials, are not religious, compared with 11 percent of baby boomers and 7 percent of the generation born between 1928 and 1945.

It’s not clear that millennials will become much more religious as they age, either. Despite the cliché about people getting more religious as they get older, it hasn’t been happening recently. No generation has become more religious since 2007, according to the Pew data. Baby boomers and the so-called Generation X have become slightly less religious over that time, and millennials have become substantially less.



http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/13/upshot/the-rise-of-young-americans-who-dont-believe-in-god.html?abt=0002&abg=0&_r=0

[trotsky]

7. Shhh....

Let them hold on to their preferred narrative. Much easier than dealing with reality.

[kwassa]

8. Why these two analyses differ.

They disagree on the nature of the "nones". The author I quote claims that 40% of these nothing in particular category are very or somewhat interested in religion, while the NYT reporter sees none as interested in religion.

I would like to see the source material for them both. They both seem to have an axe to grind.

It seems to me that the number abandoning religion are growing, and I would be very curious to see the assertion that they have stayed about the same.

[muriel_volestrangler]

9. No, that's not right at all; Flory in Religion Dispatches was just wrong

He said "The data—including what is available through the Pew report— shows that disbelief in God is relatively stable across time and generation." That is not about those "very or somewhat interested in religion"; it's about others. The NYT reporter gathered the data for the others, and showed they are growing, both across time (from 10.3% in 2007 to 15.8% in 2014) and generation (many more in the 'millennial' generation than earlier ones). And the growth still applies if you restrict the definition to just 'atheists and agnostics', or just 'atheists'.

Flory's article is mainly about the people with 'no religion in particular', but to whom religion is still important; but that doesn't mean he can just assert that the numbers for those who aren't interested in religion are stable. But you might think from the way he wrote that there was a more significant increase in the 'no religion in particular but religion is still important' group. Actually, Pew says:

As the ranks of the religiously unaffiliated continue to grow, they also describe themselves in increasingly secular terms. In 2007, 25% of the “nones” called themselves atheists or agnostics; 39% identified their religion as “nothing in particular” and also said that religion is “not too” or “not at all” important in their lives; and 36% identified their religion as “nothing in particular” while nevertheless saying that religion is either “very important” or “somewhat important” in their lives. The new survey finds that the atheist and agnostic share of the “nones” has grown to 31%. Those identifying as “nothing in particular” and describing religion as unimportant in their lives continue to account for 39% of all “nones.” But the share identifying as “nothing in particular” while also affirming that religion is either “very” or “somewhat” important to them has fallen to 30% of all “nones.”

http://www.pewforum.org/2015/05/12/americas-changing-religious-landscape/

The proportion of the whole population for 'nones' went from 16.1% in 2007 to 22.8% in 2014 (table at the top of that Pew page). So, the 'very/somewhat important' group went from .36*16.1% = 5.8%, to .3*22.8% = 6.8%. The group that Flory calls the 'religious nones' is growing more slowly than those with no interest in religion at all.

I also notice that the headline, and Flory's article, both assume that the 'religious nones' are still Christian, just not keen on the particular churches available to them. That assumption seems unwarranted to me; they could easily be the 'I believe in some higher spiritual power' type.