Religion
Related: About this forumTeens are fleeing religion like never before: Massive new study exposes religion’s decline
http://www.rawstory.com/2015/05/teens-are-fleeing-religion-like-never-before-massive-new-study-exposes-religions-decline/JOAN SHIPPS
28 MAY 2015 AT 11:33 ET
A young atheist (Shutterstock)
Religion is rapidly losing the youngest generation of Americans, according to new research.
Americas rising generation of adults are the least religiously observant of any generation in six decades, determined an expansive study led by Jean Twenge, a psychology professor at San Diego State.
Unlike previous studies, ours is able to show that millennials lower religious involvement is due to cultural change, not to millennials being young and unsettled, Twenge says in a San Diego State University news release. .
In one of the largest studies ever conducted on Americans religious involvement, researchers from Case Western Reserve University and the University of Georgia collaborated with Twenge and her colleagues in California to analyze data from four national surveys of U.S. adolescents between the ages of 13 and 18. The surveys were taken between 1966 and 2014, and include responses from some 11.2 million people.
more at link
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)Generational and Time Period Differences in American Adolescents Religious Orientation, 19662014
In four large, nationally representative surveys (N = 11.2 million), American adolescents and emerging adults in the 2010s (Millennials) were significantly less religious than previous generations (Boomers, Generation X) at the same age. The data are from the Monitoring the Future studies of 12th graders (19762013), 8th and 10th graders (19912013), and the American Freshman survey of entering college students (19662014). Although the majority of adolescents and emerging adults are still religiously involved, twice as many 12th graders and college students, and 20%40% more 8th and 10th graders, never attend religious services. Twice as many 12th graders and entering college students in the 2010s (vs. the 1960s70s) give their religious affiliation as none, as do 40%50% more 8th and 10th graders. Recent birth cohorts report less approval of religious organizations, are less likely to say that religion is important in their lives, report being less spiritual, and spend less time praying or meditating. Thus, declines in religious orientation reach beyond affiliation to religious participation and religiosity, suggesting a movement toward secularism among a growing minority. The declines are larger among girls, Whites, lower-SES individuals, and in the Northeastern U.S., very small among Blacks, and non-existent among political conservatives. Religious affiliation is lower in years with more income inequality, higher median family income, higher materialism, more positive self-views, and lower social support. Overall, these results suggest that the lower religious orientation of Millennials is due to time period or generation, and not to age.
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0121454
As posted here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1218201518
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)We've been told the religious right has been tying its own rope for years, that sooner or later their veracity would drive their young towards liberal interpretations of Christianity. But it's the religious left that's leaking like a sieve, while the religious right has been virtually untouched by this drastic shift in demographics.
gcomeau
(5,764 posts)...and reality is corrosive to religious belief.
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)The religious right does a better job convincing its congregations that they need religion. Just for ha-ha's, let's look at this silly hypothetical:
Liberal church:
Congregant: I was thinking... I'm going to stay home next Sunday so I can watch the Packers game.
Pastor: I don't think that's a good idea.
Congregant: Why? Is it a sin?
Pastor: Well, no. Not really. We don't embrace a strict definition of "sin", per se.
Congregant: So, I'm not going to go to Hell if I stay home, right?
Pastor: Well, I don't believe in Hell. So, no. I suppose not.
Congregant: So God's not going to punish me if I spend the morning with my fat ass planted on the couch with a sausage in one hand a can of cheap domestic in the other?
Pastor: No, no, no. He won't punish you. But he strongly disapproves, you know.
Congregant: Sounds good. See you in two weeks. Maybe.
As opposed to:
Conservative Church
Congregant: Hey, I was thinking....
Pastor: YOU'RE GONNA BURN IN HELL SINNER!
GreatGazoo
(3,937 posts)Given the weird font, that girl may be sad because "There is no cod" and she was really looking forward to fish and chips.
One can believe in a higher power and NOT go to church. In the language of articles such as the linked one, people who don't believe that you can put a fence around God and charge admission are "atheists" (and "selfish" . This is a false dichotomy.
Religion is an institution, an organization, people and literature and dogma. Spirituality is a more personal view of one's relationship to the Universe.
I think a more interesting article would look at WHY kids aren't as interested as their grandparents in going to church and how do they pursue spirituality without the archaic, ritualized, sexist institutions of religion. The trend may have little to do with spirituality and more to do with church as a social gathering point. One hundred years ago, going to church was like going on FaceBook in that it was the place where you connected on a regular basis with neighbors and like-minded people.
If church is more about feeling than thinking then what church members and non-members think about God is far less a factor than how going to church makes them feel.
Hoppy
(3,595 posts)Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)For example:
Recent birth cohorts report less approval of religious organizations, are less likely to say that religion is important in their lives, report being less spiritual, and spend less time praying or meditating. Thus, declines in religious orientation reach beyond affiliation to religious participation and religiosity, suggesting a movement toward secularism among a growing minority.
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0121454
This study was not, as you appear to think it is, limited to "church attendance".
GreatGazoo
(3,937 posts)So perhaps not "church attendance" but it seems they portray the choice as 'you are either part of a church or you are an atheist.'
And they go on from there with every question being focused on churches, church attendance, the political influence of churches and whether or not kids will pay churches to provide them with religion:
...
3. How important is religion in your life?
4. How good or bad a job is being done for the country as a whole by Churches and religious organizations?
5. Do you think the following organizations should have more influence, less influence, or about the same influence as they have now? How much influence should there be for Churches and religious organizations?
This is the basis of my analysis that the design of the underlying surveys and this meta study are based on the flawed idea that one cannot be spiritual without church (eg. institutionalized religion).
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)The second one asked directly about spirituality.
TexasProgresive
(12,157 posts)without that script superimposed on the paper. Nobody wrote that with a sharpie.
Cartoonist
(7,321 posts)I question if she is holding that paper.
TexasProgresive
(12,157 posts)but every time I see one of these manipulated images (troll quote is the term I've heard) it has exactly the opposite effect intended on me. I don't like the arbitrary and uncredited use of file photos and video for much the same reason, they give the impression of being fact when they are not.
Enough of this ranting. Who is Dr. Jean M. Twenge? I see she has written several books and is a professor but what I would really like to know is she unbiased in her interpretation of the results.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)It actually looks pretty good, but it does not come to the conclusions that the author of this article comes to.
TexasProgresive
(12,157 posts)I just got back from my morning bicycle ride. It was the best ever. I have to take the garbage to the county site and get a few things done in town. Oh the joys of rural living. Like everything else has pluses and minuses.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)I hope the weather is good and the roads dry.
Cartoonist
(7,321 posts)Don't they have a phone? How hard would it be to stage that shot? Easier than resorting to Photoshop.
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)Most of the images you find on these websites are stock photos. They are high-resolution images taken and processed by professionals. They look good, and with the right permissions you can edit them to fit your story.
A picture taken on your cell phone, while original, will look immediately shitty. You'll need to run it through photoshop to clean it up a little. But it will still look shitty, because there's no way in hell in your phone can compete with a professional camera.
Unless you actually hire a staff photographer, it is cheaper and simpler to use stock photos.
Cartoonist
(7,321 posts)Is when the image is obviously seen as a fake.
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)If you can't afford professional photography, you have to make a choice: stock photos or DYI. Stock photos look better, but, as you noted, might be identified as stock photos. DYI mitigates that problem, but DYI might look shitty.
So what's more likely to turn people off to your articles? Stock photos or shitty DYI?
Cartoonist
(7,321 posts)I'll take truth in all its low rez over phoniness any day.
Look at that photo in the OP. Do you call that an image only a pro could take? I know some people are lousy photographers, but it isn't really that hard to take a good shot. I'm sure many people could take a better shot than that.
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)Digital photography is more than just angles. Your cell phone can't produce images at the same resolution as a professional camera.
As for me, I would never place a header image on an op-ed piece in the first place. Not really necessary, in my opinion.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)I have looked for, but cannot find, the original of this.
TexasProgresive
(12,157 posts)cbayer
(146,218 posts)muriel_volestrangler
(101,355 posts)cbayer
(146,218 posts)muriel_volestrangler
(101,355 posts)cbayer
(146,218 posts)but nowhere else.
TexasProgresive
(12,157 posts)Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)Stock photos, royalty free.
TexasProgresive
(12,157 posts)Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)You do understand what a stock photo is, right? Like all those pictures of women lovong salads are fake too.
What's real is that teens are becoming atheists.
TexasProgresive
(12,157 posts)I explained it the best I can in post 8. I think the use of stock photos is often lazy journalism.
Totally off subject but an example of poor use of stock photos was a piece on the death of lead guitarist of The Ventures Bob Bogle. Instead of showing a picture of Bob either alone or with the group the pasted a pic of a guitar. This guitar:
A Gibson ES-335
Bob may have played a Gibson to see what it sounded like but my ears tell me that he always played a Fender a JazzMaster early on like this:
Later a Stratocaster like this:
These are not Mr. Bogles instruments but he would have never got his signature sound out of a Gibson especially a simihollow body archtop.
Here's a pic of Bob with what looks like a Fender Stratocater
cbayer
(146,218 posts)I think you make excellent points about the difference between religion and spirituality. The study really talks about organized religion and religious organizations.
Her analysis of why this demographic has little interest in them is interesting. It talks both about the general personally characteristics of this group and the problem with the current options when it comes to organized religion.
Although this author talks about atheism, that is sloppy. The study asked about religious affiliation and included the option of "none", but did not have separate options of atheist or agnostic. There is no data to indicate what the breakdown of "none" might be, and this author is incorrect in making any assumptions.
Yorktown
(2,884 posts)What exactly do you think is 'spirituality' without a doctrine?
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)...and those who don't.
The former often involves forcing your dogma on others.
Yorktown
(2,884 posts)In terms of what is moral or not, it's the strict equivalent of atheism.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Yorktown
(2,884 posts)And?
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)leftyladyfrommo
(18,869 posts)Sexism, hatred, racism, intolerance, anti intellectualism. It's. No wonder the kids want no part of it. They are right to run in the oposie direction.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)and I think what you point out could definitely be a factor.
leftyladyfrommo
(18,869 posts)It's the Duggars and all those awful right wingers. They make religion just look awful.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)get a lot of attention. Working against human trafficking is not nearly as sexy as pedophilia.
TreasonousBastard
(43,049 posts)to a seminar about it last month.
As others in this thread have noted, there is a large gap between church attendance and spirituality and we find a quite a few spiritual wants satisfied by non-church activities. In fact, rituals and dogmas of many churches tend to turn them off.
Before it burned down, my UU church was experimenting with bringing youth of various ages into the church by organizing some very un-churchy activities and it seemed to be working. We're working out how to keep it up until the church is rebuilt.
BTW, I agree there is no QOD.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)When I was growing up, our church had a coffee house that was the base for a lot of political and social activities. There was no formal religion attached to it, but it served a really important purpose. I think it was particularly important for teens, because there weren't really other alternatives in the community.
I hope you get your church rebuilt and resume your good works soon.
BTW, ¿pob ou ǝɹǝɥʇ sı
TreasonousBastard
(43,049 posts)The actual mechanics of keeping one open for reasonable hours need to be worked out, but it's probably doable.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)I can put you in touch with my father. Just let me know.
Yorktown
(2,884 posts)Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)So she doesn't know this is a dupe. She also hasn't read the actual study summary as it addresses the claim that this shift is just about organized religion.
Yorktown
(2,884 posts)"She also hasn't read" seems to be her M.O., because I pointed out one of her posts were she claimed something was 'unislamic' when she herself has admitted never having read the Quran.
My guess is that cbayer discusses religions the way she wishes them to be, not as they are
(when one actually takes the trouble to read their texts)
pinto
(106,886 posts)Statement of Purpose
Discuss religious and theological issues. All relevant topics are permitted. Believers, non-believers, and everyone in-between are welcome.
I think there is. And there's plenty of room for us all.
Yorktown
(2,884 posts)Taking things personally?
I wish you conveyed that message to the person(s?) who reported innocuous messages of mine,
picking out of context follow up posts, making sure the jury wouldn't understand the real issue.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)you'd stand a chance of being taken seriously.
phil89
(1,043 posts)her sincerity and/or intellect, as she once asserted to me that believing in fairies is as valid as not believing in fairies. I don't understand the motivation.
Cartoonist
(7,321 posts)If you're going to fake something, go all the way.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)I, on the other hand, am clueless.
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)And spend their wnergy mocking it, rather than reading the study and finding their questions about spirituality answered reveals an agenda.
Kids are becoming atheists, get over it!
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)And it's hilarious.
Leontius
(2,270 posts)it happens about every fifteen years always has always will.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)I'm not able to post the data, but here is a link to the original article.
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0121454
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)Generational and Time Period Differences in American Adolescents Religious Orientation, 19662014
Jean M. Twenge, Julie J. Exline, Joshua B. Grubbs, Ramya Sastry, W. Keith Campbell.
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0121454#authcontrib
There is a comment section there too.
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)Leontius
(2,270 posts)Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)48 years. Three of your alleged 15 year cycles. So "and I call bullshit".