How does religious conversion work?

[DetlefK]

I'm an atheist, so I cannot fully grasp the mind of a believer. That's why I'm asking for help here.



How does religious conversion work?
How does one move from one religion to another religion?
How does one get moved from one religion to another religion?
How does one move from one interpretation of a religion to another interpretation of the same religion?


Real-life example:
How would you converse a fellow Christian from their denomination to your denomination?
What would your approach be?
What would your arguments be and what would his arguments be?
What materials would you use as aids?


I am asking this for the following reason:

The Christianity of the present isn't the same as the Christianity of the past.
(Quick! Name the Cardinal-Sins and the Cardinal-Virtues! Explain in two sentences how Plato's psychological model of the human mind relates to the christian concept of souls! What? You can't? If you were a medieval christian adult, you could rattle that down without taking a breath.)
The Bible is an inspirational book from a time of great brutality and contains many, many stories that are simply no longer useful as moral guides because we consider them anathema and immoral nowadays.
And yet, the Bible lives on, the chapters about genocide, legalized rape, legalized slavery, fig-trees and children-eating bears relegated to obscurity.
Christianity has chosen to ignore parts of its Holy Book over time, so as not having to deal with moral contradictions.

The same with the Qu'ran.
It was written in a violent time and is full of recommendations for violence.
Yet, Muslims have time and time again chosen to ignore problematic parts and cherry-pick the parts they deem morally acceptable.

I wonder, what it would take to convert ISIS from the literal, violent reading of the Qu'ran that justifies their acts, to a contemporary, liberal reading of the Qu'ran.

[no_hypocrisy]

1. It depends.

"Conversion" can either be voluntary or coerced.

You can have a person convert to Christianity joyfully in the basement of a coffeehouse or after being isolated from his/her friends and family with constant indoctrination.

When conversion happens, the individual relinquishes his/her former belief system for a new one. It makes sense to them. The convert only knows the limited information provided and often becomes enthusiastic about the choice.

As far as Daesh goes, I don't see it so much religious than a combination of manipulation, coercion, and desperation. If your town is overrun by Daesh and your only choice is to convert or die, you opt for the former. If you voluntary convert to the Daesh version of Islam, your leave your former life that may have been impoverished, without meaning, and without hope. Daesh promises you not only The World but Paradise. And it sounds plausible.

[DetlefK]

3. So, apart from mundane reasons like violence and poverty...

What does the new religion offer that my old religion couldn't offer?

Does the new religion offer me a better deal on rewards?

Has my old religion disappointed me (insufficient answers, not enough profit in return for my loyalty...) and the new religion will totally be better in that respect?
"We totally have the answers to your questions. And if you join us, we will answer your questions. After you donate a shit-ton of money to us."

[no_hypocrisy]

6. I chose to restrict my answer to theology.

Of course there is a political and sociological component to conversion with respect to Daesh.

[TexasProgresive]

2. I will not attempt to answer your question

It is my belief that "religious" wars are really nothing of the sort. There are always underlying economic forces at work and the PTB will use religion, nationalism or non-religious ideology as a super whisk to gin up fervor. It would be nice if we could just package it all up with religion as the enemy but that just doesn't work. Get rid of religions without addressing the underlying economic forces and the violence will continue unabated.

"USA!" "USA!" "USA!" "Sieg Heil!" "Peace! Land! Bread!"

I don't think that even the Crusades was purely a religions war. The spice routes passed through Muslim lands and high tariffs were exacted on the precious cargo from the East to Europe. By the time black pepper reached Europe it was ounce of ounce the price of gold. The religious aspect was used to give a "moral" basis for the wars.

[just us]

4. What if

What if a faith of God said all the religions were for use in their time. Each a teacher for say" that grade of school". So by realizing this we can see the real message each taught and evolve to understand the next message, or move to the next grade to continue to evolve to become homospiritus.

[edhopper]

5. Which religion

is higher education, and which do we deem kindergarten?

Considering Jews and Hindus are still worshiping ideas from a few thousand years ago, are they only in Grade school.
Does this make Mormonism and Scientology college?

[cleanhippie]

7. Ed, that's New Age, Chopra-esque spirtuality their talking about.

It's contrived platitudes and feel-good word-salad. And it works great until you ask the type of questions you just did.

[Leontius]

12. One week and still silence.

Long past time to do the right thing.

[cleanhippie]

13. Lol

If you hold your breath, maybe.

[Act_of_Reparation]

8. Elucidating words.

Opportunity is the quanta of happiness, and happiness is door through which one may inhabit the universe spiritually. It is only through understanding the vicissitudes of the mind that we might harness the infinite power of spirit and elevate ourselves to greater expressions of love, peace, and happiness, that we might transcend visible energy and become one with that web of life that roots us all in spontaneous balance.

[Iggo]

9. Nice post, Deepak.

[Act_of_Reparation]

10. Just gotta land myself a book deal and I'm set n/t

[struggle4progress]

11. Your questions have grammatically correct forms, but that does not imply

the questions are meaningful: "religion" is not well-defined, nor is "the mind of a believer"

Your historical assumptions are dubious. It is quite unlikely that a typical "medieval christian adult" could discuss any relation of Plato's ideas to the concept "soul." Nor is it obvious to me that the brutality of classical times is necessarily different from the brutality of our own time: there might have been about 100 million deaths attributable to the two world wars, a figure which significantly exceeds the whole population of the Roman empire at its height or the entire population of Europe before the black death struck

Genocide, rape, and slavery have not suddenly somehow become irrelevant topics: they continue today

[DetlefK]

14. Have you recently been to a slave-market?

When was the last time your village eradicated a neighbouring village and took their girls as sex-slaves?



My historical comparison was a little bit over-the-top, but essentially correct. The mindset of medieval Christianity was different from present's Christianity. Christian doctrine revolved about a life-style that embraces the Cardinal-Virtues and avoids Cardinal-Sins. To this end, pictoral memory-aides were widely used and taught to children from early on.

The reference to Plato was slightly over-the-top. The technique of the pictoral memory-aides was based on a psychological theory of Plato that had connections to the esoteric and from there to the concept of the soul. (A theory of the human mind that didn't account for the soul of christian doctrine was heretical and unthinkable.) While this indeed wasn't everyday knowledge for ordinary Christians, this intellectual background was widely known among monks, especially Dominicans.



Well, religion is a system of beliefs that a) exists independent from scientific facts and b) is practiced culturally by a group.

[struggle4progress]

15. Several groups claim that more people are enslaved today

than at any other time in history. The topic is frequently in the news

Indonesia opens trials of 6 accused of enslaving fishermen
BUCE RAHAKBAUW, The Associated Press
Published: November 16, 2015, 11:42 pm Updated: November 16, 2015, 11:52 pm

South Koreans sue government over salt farm slavery
KIM TONG-HYUNG, The Associated Press
Published: November 13, 2015, 2:32 am Updated: November 13, 2015, 4:12 am

[link:http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/01/unaccompanied-young-refugees-europe-traffickers|Unaccompanied young refugees in Europe 'at risk from criminal gangs'
Senior Europol officer warns traffickers are exploiting people’s desperation, forcing them into prostitution and slave labour]
Harriet Sherwood in Madrid
Sunday 1 November 2015 10.01 EST
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/01/unaccompanied-young-refugees-europe-traffickers

ICE arrests 29 people in 8 states on human trafficking charges, identifies 15 potential victims, following multistate undercover investigation
10/30/2015

Human trafficking: How a charity is rescuing the victims the authorities knew nothing about
Paul Peachey
Wednesday 28 October 2015

New ways to help Hong Kong's human trafficking victims
By Astrid Zweynert
OCTOBER 22, 2015

[DetlefK]

16. The difference is: Nowadays slavery is considered immoral and illegal.

As compared to the ages when the Bible and the Qu'ran were written.