Moderately interesting: a story from a woman who used to wear the niqab...

[backscatter712]

https://www.quora.com/What-do-uncovered-Western-women-think-of-when-they-see-us-Muslim-women-who-wear-a-niqab-and-are-covered-from-head-to-toe/answer/Noel-Rosario-1?srid=uVy4&share=152fc829

Q: What do uncovered Western women think of when they see us Muslim women who wear a niqab and are covered from head to toe?

Noel's Answer

Noel Rosario, How? Why? <-----two questions that rule my life.

I was married to a Muslim for four years and identified as a Muslim for five. I used to wear full hijab/abaya.

I used to tell people it was my choice too.

What I didn't tell them, was I "chose" to wear such restricting garments because my husband made it clear that if I didn't, he wouldn't go out in public with me. He also would break something of mine or "lose" it in retaliation.

...

The Quran does not tell women to wear hijab, let alone niqab.

I think women in full niqab are likely every bit as oppressed as I was, whether they realize it or not.

Interesting bit of writing. Lots of women claim they choose to wear the hijab, but a lot of them are really pressured into it.

Personally, I think that people should be able to wear what they want, but I suspect that a lot of Muslim women are not wearing what they want...

I know, I know, I'm a shitlord because I'm criticizing Islam in particular, but the misogyny that's epidemic in that religion gets under my skin.

[TygrBright]

1. Chicken/Egg

I don't know whether it's "misogyny in religion" or "religion in misogyny," frankly.

Almost all forms of current religious belief are rooted in patriarchy, and the central function of patriarchy is the control and subjugation of half of humanity for the benefit of the other half, based on genitalia.

Virtually all religious doctrines of which I'm aware were initially formulated by males, most were initially recorded by males, and virtually all historical religious founder figures were endowed with a penis.

Misogyny not exactly an accident, or an accretion.

Many religions have made liberalizing gestures, at various times when equity has become a strong social value for some reason.

Even faiths such as Tao and the various streams of Buddhism originated within cultures with deeply-engrained structural misogyny, and their early histories (such as we can know them,) reveal ignorance and/or dismissal of the female spirituality and female experience.

Essentially, organized religion IS misogyny.

While the basic narratives of spiritual revelation, quest, and transformation in most religions may transcend gender identity (assuming you can re-contextualize them and re-frame the language a bit,) and many religions have identified spiritual concepts that may be equally helpful to someone seeking self-transformation regardless of gender, the doctrines and dogmas are all patriarchy.

There is a reason why fundamentalist religious fervor has become such a disproportionately powerful influence on males, and in cultures where traditional male dominance is being challenged by modernity, mass communications, and/or feminist movements. Pretty much all dogmas provide the justification and the "instructions from God" for keeping women subjugated.

Yes, it's about politics and economics as well, but those things, too, have evolved from, and remain shaped by, patriarchal assumptions.

steadfastly,
Bright

[backscatter712]

10. I think that is true.

Look at the clergy of the Catholic Church, aka the He-man Woman-Haters Club.

To think in the 21st century, in the Western world, we have such a large institution that still to this day says "No girls!"

And this nonsense certainly isn't limited to the Catholic Church - most religion is infected by it. Religion is a mechanism of patriarchal control.

[AtheistCrusader]

2. Interesting question.

As far as I'm concerned, a woman can wear anything or nothing, at her pleasure. On the other hand, I'm aware that there are pressures that make it not necessarily her choice.

That said, the same is generally true, maybe in a softer way, about other aspects of public attire like heel length, skirt length or other external social/peer pressures that 'must be conformed to' or they get prude-shamed or slut-shamed from various audiences.

I'm also aware that there are fewer pressures for males in our society.


Dunno. I feel like reassuring people 'you don't have to wear that if you don't want to', but it's not my place to do so if a woman is wearing a low-cut top, or 6" heels either. So I pretty much just shut the fuck up about it.

[backscatter712]

3. I think a lot of it is how people are socialized.

In countries with heavily conservative Muslim traditions (Saudi Arabia, for example), women are required by law to wear the niqab. They're raised and told that it's required to protect themselves from men who just can't control themselves. Also, boys are raised to know that they just can't control themselves, which is why women wear burqas. The toxic part of this is that men don't TRY to control themselves - they were told they can't, so you get a lot of scummy men using that as an excuse to be abusive towards women.

On the other hand, in a more free society, women get to dress however they want, be it bikini or nijab, or even topless, and men are raised around these women, and ideally, raised to treat women with respect. So the scumbags don't have an excuse, men behave in a civil way, and there's no need for misogynistic crap like you see in Saudi Arabia.

Granted, the U.S., and even Europe are not perfect in terms of having customs that involve treating women with respect. It's a hell of an improvement over the Daesh That Made It...

[Yorktown]

4. Good thread. It should be obvious the niqab is male ownership of women

Me man,
me hide my woman so that covetous neighbor can't tell if my wife pretty and get bad ideas.

Me woman,
me get to be dressed like a letter box. And it's my free will or I get repudiated. Yay.

[backscatter712]

5. Yep. What does the Niqab say?

"My husband is an amazingly insecure dickless wonder that's so paranoid about losing his wife that he makes me wear a sack over my body and see the world through a tiny slit!"

[Yorktown]

6. Pfff. I suspect you are deaf to the wonders of religion.

[backscatter712]

7. I do my best.

[Yorktown]

8. Keep up the good work ;)

[Promethean]

9. Every idea or ideology must be examined and criticized.

Religions are no exception and islam especially needs to be criticized as world events demonstrate almost daily. Claiming that a violent group that demands to rule the world isn't islamic is denying some very obvious and non-obscure commands in the quran. Claiming that islam is a religion of peace is outright ignoring the founder of the religion, whom every muslim reveres without question, whom was a warmonger that started the religion in blood and continued to spread it at the edge of a sword.