A question for apologists.

[Cartoonist]

There is overwhelming evidence of child rape in religious organizations. Apologists try to say there is no connection between faith and pederasty.

So here is my question. What other organizations have high incidents of child rape? If there is no connection between faith and pederasty, then there should be secular organizations equally guilty of the same crime.

Please provide examples of the same scale.

[CompanyFirstSergeant]

1. The C------ Church...

...is a political and financial institution as well as religious.

Most likely in that order.

[cleanhippie]

9. It's ok to say Catholic Church.

Facts are facts.

[CompanyFirstSergeant]

12. Wow...

How fucked up is that - someone (me) who attended Catholic Church as a kid can't say 'Catholic Church' years later.

And I knew kids who had been offered blowjobs by priests.

Thanks for getting me straight on that one.

[edhopper]

2. NAMBLA

somebody had to say it

[Cartoonist]

3. It would be interesting

To see the religious proclivities of their members.

[edhopper]

4. you mean besides

the catholic Priests?

[cleanhippie]

10. That's probably their base membership!

[LeftishBrit]

5. The Jimmy Savile scandal in the BBC

[Cartoonist]

6. I don't think you understood the question.

While he may have had accomplices, he doesn't constitute an organization.

Examples would be a bank like Chase, or a restaurant chain like McDonald's, or a group like the National Rifle Association.

I'm talking about an organization that not only has a high number of its members engaging in pederasty, but an enabling infrastructure that protects them.

[rug]

7. Child sexual abuse in religiously affiliated and secular institutions:

a retrospective descriptive analysis of data provided by victims in a government-sponsored reappraisal program in Germany

Nina Spröber, Thekla Schneider, Miriam Rassenhofer, Alexander Seitz, Hubert Liebhardt, Lilith König and Jörg M Fegert

BMC Public Health BMC series open, inclusive and trusted 2014 14:282
DOI: 10.1186/1471-2458-14-282

© Spröber et al.; licensee BioMed Central Ltd. 2014

Received: 12 October 2012Accepted: 18 March 2014
Published: 27 March 2014

Conclusion

This study is the first to examine patterns and consequences of child sexual abuse in different types of institutions based on a large sample. Based on the information provided by respondents, the nature of institutional structures and overall perceptions of the rights of children rather appeared to be a factor in the prevalence and nature of child sexual abuse than the religious affiliation of institutions. Severe sexual abuse in institutions appears to have decreased over the past decades, but there is still the need for better understanding of it and for the implementation of prevention and intervention strategies. The exploratory data arising from this study may serve as a starting point for building hypotheses

.
http://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2458-14-282

[Cartoonist]

8. That's half the answer.

The results suggest that child sexual abuse in institutions is attributable to the nature of institutional structures and to societal assumptions about the rights of children more than to the attitudes towards sexuality of a specific religion.

In a predominantly Christian country, what shapes the societal assumptions?

What is not addressed in this study is the institution wide cover-up and protection of the offenders.

[rug]

13. The study consisted of 534 religious instutions and 516 secular instutions.

The results suggest that child sexual abuse in institutions is attributable to the nature of institutional structures and to societal assumptions about the rights of children more than to the attitudes towards sexuality of a specific religion.

Fixed.

[Cartoonist]

14. They didn't examine what I bolded.

Societal assumptions of a Christian country.

[rug]

22. 34% of Germans had no religion the year of the study.

That's a much higher percentage than in the u.S.

[edhopper]

15. Of the 1050 victims

404 had been in Roman Catholic institutions.

That is a very, very big percentage.

[Cartoonist]

17. Not only that

But I think it is kind of disingenuous to attribute secularism to state residential child care facilities. While there may be no official connection, I don't know how they do it in Germany, such facilities are modeled on religious institutions.

[rug]

23. If they are in fact modeled on religious instututions, without the religion,

then the answer likely lies with the structure of the instiututions. That's sociology not theology.

[rug]

21. 646 were not.

Check the stats for victims in secular institutions.

[edhopper]

24. Well that's okay then

Just because the RC makes up more child assaults than any other by a wide margin is fine, since it also happens elsewhere.


So the OP is wrong that there are other institutions (though a majority are religious) but you have shown your Church to be the very worst perpetrator.

But carry on defending.

[rug]

25. If you say so.

But that's not me. If I'm "defending' anything here, it's statistics from cognitive biases, You know what that's called.

[ZombieHorde]

11. I'm not exactly an apologist,

but many teachers have been caught molesting children.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/has-media-ignored-sex-abuse-in-school/

[Cartoonist]

16. Half an answer

I acknowledge that sexual abuse happens everywhere. What doesn't happen everywhere, is the cover-up and protection.

I don't believe I have ever heard of a school transferring a known pedophile to another school.

[ZombieHorde]

18. That's a good point.

I googled "school transferring a known pedophile to another school," and the closest I saw was a teacher who was acting inappropriate with his young students, and the other teachers complaints led nowhere with the school board. The teacher was eventually convicted for molesting 13 children.

http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/education/schools-culture-failed-to-stop-abuser/

Very bad, but obviously, the RCC scandal was much more extreme and disturbing. This was more apathy than a cover up.

[Cartoonist]

19. I'm guilty of moving the goal posts

My OP doesn't mention the cover-ups

[ZombieHorde]

20. Well, add it in real quick, and I'll go along with it.

[trotsky]

36. The cover-up, the protection,

and then the continuing legal battle the church and its lawyers wage against the victims, trying to limit their right to sue, trying to change the system to make it harder for them to get justice.

It's disgusting and pathetic and the fact that you have some putrid people on DU who blindly side with their church on this stuff is just depressing.

[Leontius]

29. I wonder if you'll get attacked for bringing this fact this up.

I'm going to guess not because, well, you know.

[ZombieHorde]

32. Because of my cool profile pic?

Oh wait, I'm technically a host of this group, but Renew Deal is the real host. I just host when Renew Deal is gone.

[Leontius]

34. Yep, that will most likely be why.

Have a good one.

[Warpy]

26. Conservative politics also draws in the pederasts

Pederasts want to look as normal as possible, pillars of community and church that no one would ever suspect. It's not a function of religious or political dogma that attracts them, it's the veneer of being responsible, patriotic and godly that does it.

Religious dogma doesn't create pederasts, although it does inspire a lot of abuse of women. It's the organizations around it that confer respectability by association and that's why it's one of the places you'll find freaks who rape children.

[struggle4progress]

27. With a little practice, most people can learn to treat others as individuals rather than stereotypes

People usually don't blame the idea "family" for sexual abuse in families or the idea "school" for sexual abuse in public schools

I looked up my state (NC) with the resource cleanhippie posted recently and found 15 priests named, with some allegations over 50 years old

This might be compared with annual data for NC: in 2012, for example, there were at least 1887 known incidents of child sexual abuse here

A rather large fraction -- perhaps a third -- of child sexual abuse cases involve family members

The number (15) of priests in NC alleged to have sexually abused minors over several decades might also be compared to current numbers of public school teachers here recently alleged to have engaged in such conduct:

A former track coach and math teacher, who was arrested Friday in Mebane and charged with having sex with a student, was in Orange County District court Monday. Dustin Graham Branch, 32, of 522 Ashbury Square in Mebane, who resigned from Eastern Guilford High School, is charged with one count of sex offense with a student after authorities say he had sex with a teen girl at his home, according to police.
NC teacher had sex with teen girl after watching movies, warrant says
By Rob Price
Published: June 12, 2015, 3:19 pm

A Rockingham County Schools teacher pleaded guilty to Sexual Activities with a Student and Indecent Liberties with a Child in court Tuesday. Rebekah Gammon Wright was sentenced to 26-50 months in prison. Wright was a 7th grade teacher at Rockingham Middle School.
RCS Teacher Pleads Guilty to Sexually Abusing Student
Morgan Hightower, WFMY 11:05 a.m. EDT July 8, 2015

Jennifer Hartlieb, a 32 year old North Carolina school teacher, has been accused of sexual assault. Lenoir County Sheriff Ronnie Ingram says a former South Lenoir High School teacher accused of sexual assault on a student turned herself in and was given a $35,000 bond.
NC Teacher Arrested For Sexual Assault
By Oliver Willis - December 2, 2015

Dwiggins, 29, was originally charged in 2010 with having sex with a 14-year-old boy while she was a teacher at Bear Grass School in Williamston. A year later she went on to teach at a middle school also in Martin County, in the northeastern part of the state. The original charge was for sex offense with a student and statutory rape, she pleaded guilty to multiple counts of indecent liberties with a child. She was sentenced to a maximum of one year and eight months, but served 10 months. She was released in March 2014.
Former NC teacher, registered sex offender charged again due to social media account
Published 11:26 am Wednesday, December 30, 2015
By Shavonne Walker

A former teacher at Manteo High School has been indicted on a sexual offense charge. 27-year-old Ryan Garrott was indicted Monday on one count of sex offense with a student. District Attorney Andrew Womble says the victim was a female senior at Manteo High School and was 18 years old at the time. The alleged offense happened in May of 2015.
Ex-NC teacher charged with sex offense with female student
WNCT Staff
Published: January 6, 2016, 9:04 pm Updated: January 6, 2016, 10:01 pm

A former Halifax County school teacher was arrested last week for alleged inappropriate sexual behavior with an underage student. Halifax County Sheriff Wes Tripp confirmed the alleged offenses Larry Donnell Edwards, 54, of Ahoskie, is charged with occurred once. The reputed crimes occurred on school property. While declining to name the complainant in the case, Tripp said in a statement investigation began in November by Detective D.C. Dickens.
Former teacher charged with sex offenses against student
Monday, 01 February 2016 15:15

Following an investigation, Laura Garrigus, 30, was arrested and charged Feb. 8 after a 17-year-old female student said she had been having a physical relationship with the Cumberland International Early College teacher since Oct. 2015.
NC teacher had sex with 2nd student, officials say; faces 13 new charges
WNCN
Published: March 4, 2016, 11:03 am

Teika Helton, 46, of Belmont, accepted a plea offer and was sentenced to 200 hours of community service and two years of probation Tuesday, the Gaston Gazette reports. Helton also agreed to give up her North Carolina teaching license. Helton was charged in November 2015 with felony sex offense with a student. She claimed the sex act happened after the student’s graduation.
Former NC teacher pleads guilty to sex with student, gets probation
POSTED 3:20 PM, MARCH 8, 2016, BY PAUL CHOATE

Burlington police charged a former teacher in connection with an inappropriate relationship with a student. Robert Carlsson Wooten, 34, of Burlington faces charges of sexual activity with a student and indecent liberties with a student, according to a police news release. Administrators at Walter M. Williams High School, 1307 S. Elm St., notified police on Wednesday that Wooten was involved with a student, according to the release.
Burlington teacher charged with having sex with a student
Posted: Friday, March 11, 2016 6:29 pm | Updated: 6:33 pm, Fri Mar 11, 2016.
Staff Reports

[Cartoonist]

30. Go back under your rock

Mirt alert

[Act_of_Reparation]

35. I'm not an apologist.

But studies have shown, the 2004 John Jay Report in particular, that priests abuse children at a rate similar to other professions. Schools, for example are just as bad.

The problem with the Catholic Church isn't necessarily that child abuse is more prevalent in its ranks (any profession that involves close contact with minors is likely to appeal to pedophiles), but it's great efforts to cover up the crimes of its members and shield them from prosecution, typically exposing even more children to danger in the process.

[cleanhippie]

37. "...it's great efforts to cover up the crimes of its members and shield them from prosecution"

That's it, exactly.

And why that's so difficult for the apologists to understand...

[skepticscott]

38. Oh, the apologists understand it perfectly well

What's difficult for them is finding new ways to lie, dodge, divert and deny in order to help cover it up.

Sadly, that kind of apologetics is all too common, even in progressive circles. The worst offenders will go to any lengths to try to make it about anyone but them and their church.