Is this N.J. town's seal too religious? An atheist group thinks so

[rug]

By Andy Polhamus
on April 04, 2016 at 12:07 PM
updated April 04, 2016 at 5:01 PM

CLAYTON — A national atheist group is asking the borough to change both its town motto and official seal, saying that both are "unmistakably religious" and unconstitutional.

Clayton's motto describes the town as "a great place to live and play, work and pray." The seal, meanwhile features an image of a church emblazoned with a cross as well as a factory, a house and a figure fishing from a boat. Gene Costill, a former Clayton mayor, said the town began using the seal and motto in the late 1960s. Costill was serving one of five mayoral terms at the time, and said the pitch came from a man working in the graphics department of the town's Owens-Illinois glass factory.

"I think it's a quality job," Costill said of the seal. "Everybody can pray to whoever they want. It doesn't tell you who to pray to, it just says it's a good place to pray."

The Freedom From Religion Foundation disagrees, however. The Wisconsin-based group first reached out to the borough in September, saying they had been tipped off by a borough resident. Clayton's solicitors wrote back, saying the seal and motto represented Clayton's history. On March 16, FFRF responded, writing that "federal courts have consistently held that religious symbolism on official city seals is unconstitutional, even in the face of claims that the religious portions are in some way historical."

http://www.nj.com/gloucester-county/index.ssf/2016/04/nj_borough_faces_off_with_atheist_group_over_town.html

Hell, FFRF can save a stamp and just drop off a complaint down the road.

[JoePhilly]

1. The cross and the need to pray take it over the top.

[rug]

3. How about, "God, Our Light"?

[JoePhilly]

5. I think not.

Because it suggests a single common God for all.

[rug]

7. Those without a god, like FFRF, may object.

But have not.

[JoePhilly]

9. Those with many Gods, or no Gods, may object.

Any attempt to claim ONE GOD should be challenged when our government puts it forward.

[rug]

10. Any thoughts why FFRF has not?

I daresay, the university of Wisconsin - Madison has a greater influence than the Borough of Clayton, New Jersey.

[Kalidurga]

2. Yes it is too religious

Do you have any harder questions?

[rug]

4. Yes, the UW-M seal.

[Kalidurga]

6. Yes that one is too

[rug]

8. In many ways, it's much worse.

This credo was the UW’s first seal and was chosen to reflect the religious beliefs and values of Wisconsin citizens.

http://www.uwalumni.com/askabe/numen-lumen/

[Kalidurga]

11. I think it's worse cuz it's in Latin

So it pretty much goes unnoticed.

[Goblinmonger]

13. Interesting you left this part out

But, according to a University Communications News Library article, the UW’s first chancellor, John Lathrop, who assisted in the creation of the motto, interpreted it to mean, “The divine within the universe, however manifested, is my light.”

[rug]

14. Interesting you left this part out

This credo was the UW’s first seal and was chosen to reflect the religious beliefs and values of Wisconsin citizens.

But I'm much more interested in hearing you expound about "the divine within the universe". -

[Goblinmonger]

15. Nutella's pretty divine.

So are turtles.

[rug]

17. So is searching for an exit.

[Cartoonist]

12. It most certainly does

"Everybody can pray to whoever they want. It doesn't tell you who to pray to, it just says it's a good place to pray."

That's a crucifix, not a crescent. As for Wisconsin,

Q: What does the UW motto Numen Lumen mean?

A: Chancellor J.H. Lathrop translated it as "God our light" when he proposed the alleged Latin phrase for the university seal in a letter dated Feb. 11, 1854. A number of scholars have since challenged that interpretation. Some could find no example in classical Latin of the two words standing together to make a phrase, and concluded that it was untranslatable. Others defined lumen as "light" and found in numen such variations as "Providence" and "the quality of divinity in a deity," resulting in such clumsy translations as "The divine within the Universe, however manifested, is my light." Small wonder the big steroid W has eclipsed Numen Lumen on Badger T-shirts and letterhead in recent years."

Key word: clumsy.

[rug]

16. numen

NOUN (plural numina /-mənə/)

The spirit or divine power presiding over a thing or place.

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/numen

Praiseworthy, yet clumsy, try.

[Goblinmonger]

18. So not "God"

Glad you agree

[rug]

20. I thought you had respect for words.

divine 1
Pronunciation: /dəˈvīn/
ADJECTIVE (diviner, divinest)

Of, from, or like God or a god:
heroes with divine powers
paintings of shipwrecks being prevented by divine intervention

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/divine

[MisterP]

19. hmm

[Goblinmonger]

22. There's a cross on a town seal.

That seems like pretty clear state/religion issue.

And FFRF is now an anti-theist organization?

[Leontius]

23. It always has been.

It's only an issue for the thin skinned perpetualy whining children.