Islamophobin

[rug]

http://www.islamophobin.org/

[Albertoo]

1. Will it cure CAIR of its links with the Muslim Brotherhood?

Muslim Brotherhood = Hamas.

Or will these tablets cure the CAIR leaders who can't condemn the Hezbollah?

[rug]

2. Links?

[Albertoo]

3. FBI enquiry. Google it.

[rug]

4. I won't read World News Daily, Fox News, Breitbart, The Daily Caller or barenakedislam.com

[Albertoo]

5. Try the site of CAIR itself, where they try to +spin their fall-out with the FBI

http://www.cair.com/press-center/cair-in-the-news/5846-cair-muslim-groups-weigh-breaking-ties-with-fbi.html

[rug]

6. Seems reasonable:

Amid debate over whether such organizations should even work with the FBI, a nationwide coalition of Muslim groups has threatened to break from the bureau because of the agency's treatment of CAIR and allegations last month that the FBI had sent undercover agents into California mosques, pressured Muslim Americans to become informants and used "agents provocateurs to entrap" Muslims.

[Albertoo]

7. CAIR leaders "intimately tied to the most senior Hamas leadership."

Based on electronic surveillance of the meeting, the FBI reported that "the (CAIR) participants went to great length and expended much effort hiding their association with the Islamic Resistance Movement [Hamas]."

Other than that, CAIR is fine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_on_American–Islamic_Relations#Allegations_of_ties_to_Hamas

[rug]

8. That link is broken. You mean this one:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_on_American%E2%80%93Islamic_Relations#Allegations_of_ties_to_Hamas

This is a more precise article on the Rep. Peter King (R-NY) hearings held by the "House Homeland Security Committee on Islamic Radicalization":



http://voices.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2011/03/the_king_hearings_is_cair_a_te.html

https://homeland.house.gov/document/radicalization-muslim-americans-committee-homeland-securitys-investigation-continuing/

And here's an interesting article on the House Unamerican Activities Committee:

https://www.gwu.edu/~erpapers/teachinger/glossary/huac.cfm

[Albertoo]

9. The UAE designated the Council on American Islamic Relations a terrorist organization

UAE Doubles Down on Designation of CAIR as Terrorists

The UAE reaffirmed its decision to designate the Council on American Islamic Relations a terrorist org, warning the West of Islamic extremists.

http://www.clarionproject.org/analysis/uae-doubles-down-designation-cair-terrorists


Here, a FBI wiretap of the co-founder of CAIR chatting with a leader of terror group Hamas

[rug]

10. Ah, yes, the Clarion Project.

http://www.npr.org/sections/secretmoney/2008/10/messages_for_scranton.html

http://www.npr.org/sections/secretmoney/2008/09/who_is_behind_the_radical_isla.html

I appreciate now your reluctance to post links.

[Albertoo]

11. It was also reported notably by the Washington Post which has a paywall

So your "blame the source" tactic is rather thin.
Besides, I see no substantive answer from you about CAIR or its links with Hamas.

Not even the hint you might think some links between CAIR and Hamas are troubling.

[rug]

12. What I did find were links between CAIR and Hamas before it was designated a terrorist organization.

That's in the links I posted.

Since then I have seen nothing but rightwing sources attempting a link between CAIR and terrorism.

And that's sourceS, as in plural.

[Albertoo]

13. So now, the United Arab Emirates is a right wing source? Or are they islamophobes?

The Muslim Brotherhood is designated a terrorist organization by a few governments.
The links between the Muslim Brotherhood and CAIR are extensive.
Are you going to blame all this on nefarious US "right wing groups"?

PS: Some of the advisors to the Clarion Project are models of patriotic Muslim Americans.
Notably Dr. Zuhdi Jasser.

[rug]

14. No, the UAE is a bona fide theocracy ruled by absolute monarchs.

They despise the Muslim Brotherhood politically. It does not mesh with absolute monarchies.

But if you wish to marshal an actual theocracy to bolster your argument, don't let me stand in your way.

P.S. Meet the donors to the Clarion Project:

http://thinkprogress.org/security/2012/01/24/410003/donors-clarion-fund-third-jihad/

[Albertoo]

15. So you prefer CAIR to the Clarion Project Muslims?

People like or Zhudi Nasser, Raheel Raza or Maajid Nawaz* are the only hope to see Islam morph into something compatible with democratic values, while CAIR defends a literal Islam antithetic to democratic values. I take note of your sympathies. (*not Clarion)

You appear to wish to shield CAIR from the criticism it has received, dismissing its extensive links with the Muslim Brotherhood (which has sway over most of the US mosques), do not wonder why CAIR has been named a terrorist organization by a foreign government and perfer to cast aspersions on the Clarion Project. You prefer religion when it is 'pure', I suppose?

NB: to be fair, CAIR is not really a terrorist organization, it simply sympathizes with such.

[rug]

16. Overall, yes. Although I think those three have more in common with CAIR than Clarion.

Minus the donors of course.

Parenthetically, I would ask you for proof of your claim that the Muslim Brotherhood "has sway over most of the US mosques", but I fear it would induce a bout of déjà vu.

[Albertoo]

17. I suppose you are going to dismiss the Jerusalem Post too?

Recently the Saudis have dis-allied themselves from the Muslim Brotherhood,
so the turf war is on between Wahhabis and the Muslim Brotherhood for influence in the US

Expert: Saudis have radicalized 80% of US mosques

Mainstream US Muslim organizations are heavily influenced by Saudi-funded extremists, according to Yehudit Barsky, an expert on terrorism at the American Jewish Committee. Worse still, Barsky told The Jerusalem Post last week, these "extremist organizations continue to claim the mantle of leadership" over American Islam. The power of the extremist Wahhabi form of Islam in the United States was created with generous Saudi financing of American Muslim communities over the past few decades. Over 80 percent of the mosques in the United States "have been radicalized by Saudi money and influence," Barsky said. Before the 1970s, she explained, "Muslim immigrants who came to the United States would build a store-front mosque somewhere. Then, since the 1970s, the Saudis have been approaching these mosques and telling them it wasn't proper for the glory of Islam to build such small mosques." For many Muslims, it seemed the Saudis were offering a free mosque. However, Barsky believes for each mosque they invested in, the Saudis sent along their own imam (teacher-cleric). "These [immigrants] were not interested in this [Wahhabi] ideology, and suddenly they have a Saudi imam coming in and telling them they're not praying properly and not practicing Shari'a [Islamic law] properly." This Saudi strategy was being carried out "all over the world, from America to Bangladesh," with the Saudis investing $70-80 billion in the endeavor over three decades. Barsky, who heads the AJC's Division on Middle East and International Terrorism and is the executive editor of Counterterrorism Watch, said this means that "the people now in control of teaching religion [to American Muslims] are extremists. Who teaches the mainstream moderate non-Saudi Islam that people used to have? It's in the homes, but there's no infrastructure. Eighty percent of the infrastructure is controlled by these extremists." The same is true, Barsky said, of many of the mainstream Muslim organizations in America. Many of them are "pro-Saudi and pro-Muslim Brotherhood organizations." As examples, she listed three important groups: the Islamic Society of North America, which "supports the Muslim Brotherhood and the Saudi regime;" the Islamic Circle of North America, which "is composed of members of Jamaat e-Islami, a Pakistani Islamic radical organization similar to the Muslim Brotherhood that helped to establish the Taliban;" and the Council on American Islamic Relations (CAIR), "founded in the 1980s by pro-Hamas activists."

[Albertoo]

18. You think "those three have more in common with CAIR than Clarion"?

You obviously think wrong on this issue. Besides the fact the first two are on the Clarion advisory board, Dr. Jasser has often gone full frontal against CAIR:

Ms. Rosenwald is president of the Gatestone Institute, a self-described “non-partisan, not-for-profit international policy council and think tank.” In response to CAIR’s claim that she funds “fear and hate” of Islam, Ms. Rosenwald told me that “Gatestone Institute has many Distinguished Fellows and authors who are serious Muslims; we consider it a great honor to further their views.”

Dr. M. Zuhdi Jasser, founder and president of the American Islamic Forum for Democracy (AIFD), serves on the Gatestone Institute Board of Advisors. He told me, “CAIR’s libelous implication that Nina supports bigotry against Muslims in my experience could not be further from the truth.”

Dr. Jasser continued, “It goes without saying, but to those who may not know Nina, and having known her now for many years, it is clear to me that she has the highest respect for Muslims who love their faith, love God, and take seriously our Islamic responsibility to defeat the global jihad and its Islamist inspiration. In all of my interactions with her, it is clear to me that her philanthropy is dedicated to supporting those who are working tirelessly to defeat the global jihad, protect our national security, and counter the ideas of political Islam (Islamism).”

Further disputing CAIR’s “Islamophobia” charges against Ms. Rosenwald, Dr. Jasser was joined by Israeli Arab journalist and Distinguished Senior Fellow with Gatestone, Khaled Abu Toameh.
http://observer.com/2015/05/islamic-scholars-blast-cair-for-trapping-muslims-into-a-trance-of-victimhood/

[rug]

19. Yes, if they would simply shed their donors.

But then, Ben Carson is a republican.

BTW, do you realize you're linking to the right wing rag started by Trump's son-in-law?

http://observer.com/2012/10/romney-for-president/

[Albertoo]

20. So any association with RW funds disqualiifes someone, but not links with Hamas?

Back to CAIR:
do you think CAIR is an organization which has no conflict of interest with democratic values?
do you think the CAIR leadership has no sympathy for the terror group Hamas?
More generally, do you think the fact CAIR supports literal Islam a positive point?
Even more generally, do you support anything, even antidemocratic, if it calls itself a religion?

[rug]

21. Repeatedly linking to rw sources claiming current links to terrorists, yes.

Every ideology, including reflexive antitheism, has some conflict with democracy.

I'd have to poll the leadership. Or, at the least, research sources that are not rightwing.

I see a glimmer. Do you see a difference between literal Islam and nonliteral Islam?

I do not support Pastafarianism or the Church of Bacon.

Now, one question for you: Would you type any of this strained dreck were it not for your loathing of religion in general, and Islam in particular?

[Albertoo]

22. The sources I use most are the NYT and WP, hardly RW

But if Alex Jones reports the weather forecast, there would be no reason not to quote his site.

Anyway, I see you repeating a pattern: not answering questions, asking new ones.
Hardly a sound basis for dialogue. Being a constructive individual, I still will answer despite the fact you did not answer my 4 questions about CAIR.

Is there "a difference between literal Islam and nonliteral Islam?" Only one of dangerosity. The foundational book of Islam is a rambling, contradictory book full of factual mistakes. There is a higher frequency of mistakes than in the Torah because the Quran makes more factual claims while the torah is more about mythology.

"Would I type any of (what I type) were it not for your loathing of religion in general, and Islam in particular?" Yes: out of my liking for Democracy, Justice and Freedom for all. Ideals which religions endanger: Roman Catholicism about marriage equality, Islam about most liberties and common happiness (99 lashes for having a party, yay!!)

Now, if you dare: is CAIR in any way a danger to democratic liberties?

[rug]

23. Not in this thread.

And the answer to your question is no.

[Albertoo]

24. CAIR not a danger? Wow, Just wow. Do you support Israel's right to existence?

Just curious.

[rug]

25. Do you support Palestine's?

Just curious.

And what other advocacy groups do you consider a dire threat to the Republic?

[Albertoo]

26. Not answering questions? Again?

[rug]

27. Are you?

[Albertoo]

28. Re-read this conversation: you will see I do and you do not

But I'm not holding my breath to see you being objective.
Anyway, it was fun to see you write you think CAIR is not a danger to democracy.
Write that down somewhere and re-read it in 10 to 20 years.
If you're ever capable of admitting you're wrong, it should be obvious by then.

[rug]

29. I have. I see a string of rightwing links and talking points promoting Islamophobia.

It is not "fun" to see spewed on this board.

[Albertoo]

31. You calling certain sites right wing does not make them so

And repeatedly not answering questions while asking fresh ones is poor form.

[rug]

33. "Romney For President"

http://observer.com/2012/10/romney-for-president/

And that's the mildest one you linked to.

[stone space]

30. Looks like somebody here hasn't been taking his meds.

[Albertoo]

32. One sure needs meds to imagine Islam isn't homophobic, sexist and supremacist

[rug]

34. One doesn't to spot Islamophobia being spewed.

[Albertoo]

37. Use well defined words. Islamophobia isn't.

Is your smiley puking at the in-group/out-group suggested by the Quran and hadiths?

It should.

[stone space]

35. "Don't fuck with white people"

[Albertoo]

36. In what do racist Texan loons validate the sexism, hate and homophobia of the Quran?