Good Theology Must Keep Religion From Sliding Into Superstition & Persecution

[rug]

May 03, 2012
By Paul P. Jesep/TRT Columnist–

Rev. Dr. Patrick S. Cheng, lawyer, theologian, and seminary professor has a powerful intellectual acumen that brings a new revelation to faith. He is a passionate scholar of LGBTQ Christian theology.

There are many types and categories of theology, both Christian and non-Christian. Although Rev. Cheng writes from a Christian perspective, his approach to theology may be of interest to readers of other faiths.

Theology in the broadest sense means the study of religion. Of course, religion means different things to different people. Religion is based on culture, tradition, and sometimes ethnicity in a quest to be closer to God, whether Hindu or Christian. It is often linked to finding meaning in a cold, complicated world. Religion is a human tool that attempts to take sacred teachings and apply them in life or in ritual through a communal or individual manner. Religion can contain bigotry and prejudice. God and religion are not interchangeable.

Recently a priest-colleague-friend, Fr. Jim, underscored to me this man’s talents and his increasing contributions to LGBTQ religious and theological scholarship. Rev. Cheng’s important work parallels and contrasts to Catholic and Evangelical theology. Although he is not necessarily responding to anyone, his LGBTQ theology is pure, genuine, and developed out of the empowerment that he believes Christianity offers.

http://www.therainbowtimesmass.com/2012/05/03/good-theology-must-keep-religion-from-sliding-into-superstition-persecution/

[Odin2005]

1. I consider all theology to be pulling BS out of one's ass.

Not much better than superstition.

[rug]

3. How do you like Aristotle?

[Odin2005]

14. His stuff on politics and ethics is OK, the rest is shit.

[cbayer]

20. Wow, that's just ugly, Odin. And this is specifically about GLBTQ theology.

[Odin2005]

23. Theology can be used to justify anything.

If one needs theology in order to not be a bigot there is something wrong with that person.

[cbayer]

24. Again, that is not what this is about.

It's not about theology keeping someone from being a bigot, it's about creating theologians that can properly serve GLBTQ people.

Whether you like it or not, a lot of GLBTQ people are believers and many have had difficulty finding welcoming and affirming churches.

Anything that can be done to change that seems like a good thing to me. It's not about addressing bigotry, it's about understanding the needs of a specific community and addressing those needs.

[Odin2005]

35. Religious people use theology to justify their own beliefs.

A bigoted religious person will subscribe to a bigoted theology and believe in a bigoted god. A humane and tolerate religious person will believe in a humane theology and believe in a humane god.

[cbayer]

37. Well that's a lot better than saying that it's just bullshit pulled out of someone's ass.

[AlbertCat]

31. Theology can be used to justify anything.

Theology is just arguing whether Santa comes down the chimney head first or feet first.

It's like arguing over the pronunciation of words in Elfish or Klingon.

[Thats my opinion]

25. I suspect the use of the word 'all' coupled with a not very funny obsenity

qualifies you as brilliant--or maybe just bigoted.

[laconicsax]

26. That isn't a very thoughtful response. n/t

[laconicsax]

32. Bigotry against an academic discipline?

That's pretty funny.

[Odin2005]

36. Not liking BS is bigoted?

[trotsky]

40. If it's religious B.S., yes.

Clearly you've picked that up by now, right?

[laconicsax]

2. LOL!

I'm reminded of a bit in the prayer books my old synagogue used--there was a prayer asking God to turn people from superstition.

[rug]

4. What was the prayer?

[laconicsax]

7. I honestly don't remember.

I haven't been to services in almost a decade. I recall it was part of the services for the big holidays/special occasions (Bar/Bat Mitzvahs, wedding, etc.) rather than the weekly Shabbat service.

[mike_c]

5. religion starts out as superstition and persecution...

...or at least superstition, so the slipping part seems unnecessary.

[rug]

6. Read past the headline yet?

[mike_c]

8. actually, I was responding to the headline....

eom

[cbayer]

9. The more I post, the more I realize that many people never read beyond the headline.

Some read the four paragraphs and a small number may actually read through the link.

Hell, some people post their own OP without reading it. I personally did that and it didn't go well at all.

[rug]

10. Today I posted a story about the same story I posted 6 weeks ago.

[cbayer]

11. I did, too

I came across an original report which was referenced in another thread I had started. I thought it was reinforcing some of the points made in the original, while, in fact, my original OP was an analysis of the report.

Not as thorough as I once was, that's for sure.

[Warren Stupidity]

16. When a headline is such egregious bullshit, as this one, it obscures anything else.

But the op knows that.

[rug]

18. No need to rationalize your recoiling from different viewpoints.

We're all friends here.

[cbayer]

21. What is egregious bullshit about this headline? It's a really interesting article

about a very progressive seminarian. What's the problem?

[Act_of_Reparation]

45. To some, lying is egregious bullshit.

The reason you are encountering resistance from the non-believing contingent is because to us, the truth matters. Most of us, I think, would maintain lies, even if told with the best intentions, are still lies, and ought not to be told at all.

Furthermore, we would likewise argue subscribing to a superstitious worldview legitimizes all superstitious worldviews, including those with which you'd disagree. So, in claiming God loves gays and we should accept them, believers are thereby legitimizing the "thought" processes and arguments of those who believe the opposite.

[AlbertCat]

33. Read past the headline yet?

I did!

But I stopped at "seminary professor has a powerful intellectual acumen that brings a new revelation to faith."

Yuk!

[rug]

38. People boast of the strangest things.

[AlbertCat]

46. People boast of the strangest things.

Yeah they do!

Like having "a powerful intellectual acumen that brings a new revelation to faith."

[madrchsod]

12. very interesting....thanks for posting.

[dimbear]

13. Religion vs. superstition. The Romans, naive lads that they were, used the same

word for both: superstitio. It's commonly used to describe Christianity in the early mentions. We, in this latter and enlightened day, know the difference. What I believe* is religion, what you believe is superstition.







*rhetorical. Don't actually believe much of anything.

[darkstar3]

15. "Good theology" is an oxymoron.

And no, before you go off half-cocked, I'm not saying that all theology is axiomatically "bad". I'm saying there's no such thing as "good" or "bad" theology, just as there is no such thing as "good" or "bad" imagination. The adjective is meaningless in context.

[cbayer]

22. Perhaps it is *good* that there is a GLBTQ theology being developed and taught

so that gay people of faith will be better served by religious institutions?

That just seems good to me.

[darkstar3]

39. Which begs the question "from where to you derive your sense of good?"

After all, if religion and theology are being dragged forward by others who share your sense of good, then that sense doesn't come from religion or theology.

Perhaps some of us would want to live in a world without a system of religious morals. I think someone else around here might benefit from that message...

[cbayer]

41. I derive it from my upbringing and experience, which was steeped in the church.

I can't tell you definitively from where it comes.

You will never live in a world without a system of religious morals.

I don't know what to make of your cryptic last sentence.

[darkstar3]

42. Don't worry, I suspect the audience for which that was intended will understand perfectly.

And here's a question: If the church is only now coming around to GLBT issues, how did you get out in front?

[cbayer]

43. Because the church I was affiliated with had vehement views on civil rights

and my parents were activists.

I was also introduced to openly gay people early and have been around them as long as I can remember, even when hardly anyone was out.

Between those two things, I don't think I could be any different. Basically, there was essentially no learning curve.

[darkstar3]

44. And do your views about GLBT people specifically

jive with those of the church in the time you grew up?

[Thats my opinion]

27. At least that's better than Odin nt

Most of my updates arrive from my spelling errors--which often come from my dyslexia.

[Yuugal]

34. The results are in!

"At Thu May 3, 2012, 07:31 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

At least that's better than Odin nt

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

replying to darkstar3 to take a swipe at odin2005...rude...unecessary...potentially hurtful

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu May 3, 2012, 07:51 PM, and the Jury voted 1-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: I love atheism, and I love blasphemy, but I have to take Thats my opinion's side on this one. He is just saying he likes Darkstar's opinion on "good theology" better than Odin's opinion.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Are you fucking kidding me?
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: WTF?? odin2005 is quite capable of taking a little heat. Alerter is the thin skinned one.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Just saying that one poster's comment isn't as offensive to your point of view than another poster's comment isn't a swipe IMHO.


Yuugal

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future."

If there is a god, I hope he/she/it/they will grant my prayer that the serial alerters will be turned into cereal alerters who can then guide me to free, tasty breakfast food.

[longship]

17. I am always for more ecumenical religions

This guy seems to have figured this out. If only our Republican brethren would do the same.

I confess as an atheist that the word brethren may be misinterpreted here. But that would only be in the sense that Republicans seem to use it.

All of us, theists and atheists, are brothers and sisters, which is the what the word means. It is also what the totally insane Republicans do not understand.

Good post.

[cbayer]

19. Great news. I hope that more seminaries will start to include this in their

curriculum.

[edhopper]

28. Would one use the term Theology

for both the study of religion as a sociological and anthropological human activity. And also for looking at the sacred texts to find meaning received from a higher power.
There is a vast difference IMHO.

[edhopper]

29. Another question

Why does someone have to find in the words of God the ethical idea of treating a certain group with equality and humanity, when that is so clearly the proper ethical position. Especially when the theology is meant to counter those who find in other words of the same God what is clearly a hateful and unethical position?

Why is God needed at all in this?

[AlbertCat]

30. How do you not slide into superstition....

.... when the very 1st premise is a prehistoric superstition born of profound ignorance?