Adam and Eve lesson gets teacher cast out of religious school

[rug]

By Susan Edelman
April 2, 2017 | 5:28am

An argument over Adam and Eve between a city-paid teacher and third-graders at a private Muslim school has landed the instructor in pedagogical purgatory, The Post has learned.

English teacher Nina Kossman committed the sin of “telling the truth,” she said of her expulsion from the Razi School in Woodside, Queens, which uses taxpayer-funded city Department of Education teachers in a federally-mandated program for poor kids.

Kossman infuriated parents by telling their children that Adam is “not real.” She noted that Judaism, Christianity and Islam share the myth, thinking it would “help build up tolerance” for other faiths. She also inadvertently showed kids a classical painting of the first couple as imagined in the Garden of Eden — nude.

A group of angry parents showed up at the school the next day to complain that she “discussed Jews with them and showed them pictures of naked people,” Kossman said Imani Al-Amin, an assistant to the principal, told her.

http://nypost.com/2017/04/02/showing-nude-adam-and-eve-portrait-got-teacher-nixed-from-muslim-school/

[Thomas Hurt]

1. the religionists swear that only their flavor of religion is true...

and yet they all act the same way and have the same base ideology.

They dress it up in different theologies but the same foundations.

[rug]

2. That's a knee-jerk response.

This is a person, funded by the federal government, hired to teach English as a Second Language to immigrant children in poverty at private and religious schools in New York City.

In what interpretation of church and state does that include the teacher inculcating her viewsof religion on these students?

The First Amendment is a two-way street.

[Thomas Hurt]

3. my comment wasn't directed at the teacher but the parents.

[rug]

4. The article is about the teacher.

[whathehell]

5. Nope

Islam, Christianity and Judaism, just to name a few, each have distinct beliefs, rules, and customs...Try again.

[sharedvalues]

6. "NY Post used every page to help elect Reagan"

NY Post loses tens of millions per year. Murdoch subsidizes it because the Post is a propaganda outlet for his goal of destroying the government to cut taxes on the rich.

And Murdoch has used the Post this way for 30 years, since the famous quote above was uttered.

Ignore the Post.

[rug]

7. Go find another source to this story.

Or are you saying it was published to advance the trump agenda?

[sharedvalues]

8. It was published to advance the GOP agenda

The story is clear anti-Muslim hate.

And it's right out of the GOP propaganda playbook - find a minor story somewhere that fits their storyline and crank up the outrage machine.

Why would the post choose to amplify such a minor story? Because it fits their agenda of divisiveness and inciting hate in America (which fits their larger agenda of identity politics votes for the GOP, which lets the GOP cut taxes on the rich -- the first thing (AHCA) they tried after the election).


So yeah ignore the Post, I say.

[rug]

10. Tell me. Who exactly is going to fall into anti-Muslim hate from this post?

An intelligent reading of the article indicates, by her own words, that she shouldn't have injected her own views on religion in an ESL class (which, parenthetically is an excellent and necessary program trump and deVos are likely to defund.)

No, the only ones likely to be inflamed by this are bigots already captive to their religious bigotry.

[sharedvalues]

12. You're totally right. It's targeted at religious bigots.

GOP media is all about inflaming hate and bigotry amongst those already conditioned to believe it. And over decades that bigotry spreads as it becomes more normalized.

Go check out Breitbart or IJR or Fox News or Limbaugh -- every day there is a trumped-up story about liberals or Muslims or gays or women that is designed to play to the hate of bigots.

That's the GOP strategy. And the Post is the oldest [1]practitioner. Ignore the Post like you ignore Fox and Breitbart and conservative hate radio. (Boston Herald too, for that matter - exact same strategy as the Post and similar Murdoch subsidies).




[1] these hate strategies have been going for decades - e.g. Father Coughlin. But in modern times and run by the GOP - the NY Post is probably the innovator.

[rug]

14. Religious bigots include those bigoted against a particular religion.

What Islamophobes spring immediately to mind? Would you inclde this woman as one?

(Hint: it is not only conservative Christians.)

[Dorian Gray]

30. She shouldn't....

But she also shouldn't be fired over this.

[sharedvalues]

9. "Adam is not real" is meant to anger christians

GOP playbook - make white Christians feel like they are persecuted.

[rug]

11. Your comments on this story are getting weirder.

If you think it's an anti-Christian remark, why wold you say it's targeted at "white Christians"?

[sharedvalues]

13. Because white Christians are the GOP base, targeted by Murdoch

The whole point of the NY Post is to inflame the GOP base to advance the GOP agenda, because the GOP agenda is to cut taxes on rich people like Murdoch.

GOP identity politics is about using religion, race, and culture to get GOP voters to see liberals as unlike them and hate liberals.

This story is a two-fer -- it hits both religion and race.

The NY Post loses millions per year yet Murdoch keeps them alive because they push stories like this.

[rug]

15. So, Murdoch manufactured a story about a teacher who insulted Muslim children in a Muslim school

to insult white Christians?

[sharedvalues]

16. Selectively reported. Key: "Adam and Eve lesson ... kicked out of school"

A majority of American Christians, probably including yourself, are tolerant and care about others and accept other religions.

Some American Christians are intolerant, hate Muslims, and voted for this president.
Those Christians are very sensitive to believing their religion is "under attack".
This story confirms that sensitivity by discussing a teacher who said that "Adam and Eve are not real".

And you asked whether it was "manufactured". No, not manufactured. Selectively reported. The Post could have covered a lot of bigger stories today, but chose to cover this one. Look who else chose to cover it: Fox News. According to Google News, no other outlets covered it. NY Post and Fox chose to cover it because it fits with their propaganda line that Christianity is under attack "Adam and Eve are not real".



Most American Christians want to help others and make others' lives better and want to live along side those from other religions and with other thoughts. Fox News and NY Post are targeted at increasing hate.

[rug]

17. The problem with that analysis is the teacher, as reported, is not Christian.

Kossman, who emigrated from Russia to the US with her parents in 1973, describes herself as non-religious.

It's not a case of Muslims "persecuting a Christian."

I take your point about the Post - I've read it since the days it was considered a liberal conterpart to the Daily News. Any suspicions about the Post's motivations aside, this is a story that should be reported and I don't think the facts in this article make out the agenda that exists elsewhere in the paper.

[sharedvalues]

19. yes you're right about the facts

[guillaumeb]

31. Non-religious?

As is, non-theistic?

[sharedvalues]

18. rug, let me step back a second

Leaving the post out of it--

I was raised Catholic too and I think most Christians believe in statements of the bible like
"‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’"
And many Christians believe in helping the poor and less well-off.

But there is a subset of today's Christians in the US that believe in helping the wealthy and screwing the poor -- letting only the strong survive.

I am guessing you are in the former group. The GOP propaganda strategy is targeted at the latter.
I like this post:
http://www.cracked.com/blog/what-helped-convince-me-to-stop-being-hardcore-republican/
At some point the author says "I still remember the time I heard a very respected church couple say, "You can be a good Christian and vote Democrat." I think I had to sit down. My head was spinning. Up was down. Down was up."

Too many Americans believe that the GOP is the party of Christians - in fact the opposite is the truth.

[rug]

20. I agree with everything you just wrote.

Cracked has come a long way from being a Mad ripoff.

[Jim__]

21. Kossman is under investigation.

What is she under investigation for? It seems that she admits to saying what it is claimed she said. It seems she said this off the top of her head during a conversation. Did she violate some existing policy? The DOE should know the answer to that. If the DOE can’t cite its policy on this issue, how is the teacher supposed to know it at a moments notice during a conversation?

[rug]

22. I believe it's fore teaching religion - or irreligion - to elementary schoolers.

She was being paid to teach English as a Second Language.

She teaches English as a second language to students who speak Urdu, Bengali, Farsi and Arabic at home, using fairy tales and literature in lessons. “The children like me very much. They like my classes,” she said.

[muriel_volestrangler]

23. The teacher was in the right

A child tried to make a point about women (in a discussion about equality) with a claim about Adam. So she pointed out Adam is mythical (always good to bring facts into a discussion).

The Wikipedia illustration was unfortunate, but not a suspension offence, I'd say.

The parents have highly dubious views (complaining that she "discussed Jews with them" - which is not a problem, when that consisted of pointing out shared aspects of Judaism, Christianity and Islam).

[rug]

24. No she wasn't. She was asserting her own opinion on a religious tenet as if it were fact.

Kossman replied, “It’s just a story, a myth. It’s not real.”

The boy objected: “Adam is not a story! He is real!”

But Kossman persisted, “The story of Adam and Eve belongs to three religions — first Judaism, then Christianity, then Islam.”

If she wanted to be a teacher, as opposed to a Prometheus to third graders, she could have described the beliefs of the three Abrahamic religions on Adam as well as the competing view that an "Adam" did not exist but that would have required her to explain the difference between Adam as an archetype and Adam as a biological entity. Something I don't think she was prepared to take up or the third graders to receive.

The fact that she did it in an explicitly religious school where it would be rational to infer that a discussion of Adam would require a discussion on Adam rather than a blunt declaration that "It's not real" suggests a problem in judgment.

[muriel_volestrangler]

25. "the difference between Adam as an archetype and Adam as a biological entity"

That's what she did, in language appropriate for their age; she said he's a myth. Yes, it was good of her to point out you can't use a myth in a discussion of whether everyone is given birth to by a woman. That's teaching. She did also point out those 3 religions have similar myths about Adam.

The discussion was about men and women; pointing out Adam is a myth, and thus a red herring, was fine. Unfortunately, the boy was already so brainwashed that he insisted his myth was part of reality, so she had to explain further. So they did have a discussion on Adam.

She's a good teacher. It's so sad to see adults who think they know better than her. They've been brainwashed themselves. And they want to stop teachers teaching.

"But Kossman persisted". I just noticed the similarity to that Elizabeth Warren episode. Thank goodness for women who persist.

[rug]

26. No, she didn't. Rather than engage in pedagogy she flatly declared her version of the truth.

While I would support her saying during the Pledge of Allegiance that "liberty and justice for all" is not real in America and a myth, I doubt her case would end well.

Nor should the outcome be different here, unless you are claiming some privilege because the topic was religion.

[muriel_volestrangler]

28. The non-existence of Adam is a scientific fact, on the par with the previous existence of dinosaurs

It's nothing like an opinion on the quality of liberty or justice in the USA. It would be, picking out someone you've already mentioned, like saying that Prometheus was a myth too, and that fire was not 'stolen from the gods'.

Religions need to grow up and admit that they've made stuff up. And they really, really need to stop punishing people who tell the truth. More honest people would have taken no action against the teacher. Ask a sensible religious believer and they wouldn't have a problem with what she said.

It is very obviously religion that is claiming privilege in this case. The teacher said something true, and some believers have had her removed from her job for it, because they insist the myths they told their children must be maintained and pandered to. And she didn't just 'flatly declare her version'; she pointed out Adam is a myth, and when the boy disagreed, she started showing them things on the internet about it. Now, I'd rather she'd gone to something more reliable than Wikipedia, but that's a quick place to start.

We don't need the Scopes trial all over again. Hasn't the USA managed to advance in 90 years?

[edhopper]

27. Wait, you are asserting

that the biblical story of Adam and Eve might be true?

Which part isn't a myth in your opinion?

What if she asserted the Earth is 4 billion years old.

Or there was no global flood with all the animals on a boat?

Just opinion also?

[Dorian Gray]

29. oh Good God....

I know Razi a bit. It's in Woodside, which is where my husband's family resides.

This is stupid and ridiculous.