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MineralMan

(146,308 posts)
Tue Aug 22, 2017, 02:07 PM Aug 2017

What percentage of atheists do you think were churchgoers until reaching some age?

I was a regular churchgoer as a child and through my high school years. And not a passive one. In high school, I became heavily involved in the musical aspect of the church I attended, a traditional Presbyterian church in a small town in California. My parents, who were not at all religions, occasionally expressed concern with the amount of time I spent there. Apparently, though, I took some comfort there and social connections were part of that.

However, I was a young person with an unending supply of questions that had poor or no answers. As a regular around the church building, I had many opportunities to discuss those questions with the pastor of that church...well, until he was fired by the board of deacons. It seems that the pastor's wife had an affair with one of those worthy deacons and the easiest solution was, apparently, to send the pastor and his wife elsewhere.

As I went through my teens, the religious account of how things were and how things happened made less and less sense to me, and I began to question whether this religion stuff was worth bothering with. Being an avid reader and explorer of points of view, I began reading rather extensively about religions of all kinds, including the reasons there were so many different flavors of Christianity.

In the end, none of it really made any sense at all and seemed to fly in the face of actual evidence, so I stopped bothering with it altogether, although my interest in the interface between religion and society never disappeared, and still hasn't.

In the face of a pantheon of deities and beliefs about deities and other such supernatural stuff taken seriously by various people in various places and times, I became an atheist. I could no longer believe in any of that. It wasn't really a choice. I simply could not believe that such entities and tales about those entities could possibly be true.

Other human behavior, such as hypocrisy, untruthfulness and intolerance among the religious people I encountered did nothing to encourage my continued attendance at church or its functions. I simply walked away from all of it, while continuing to maintain an interest due to the heavy influence religion has on society. That interest remains, but the impossibility of belief in such things as deities makes it only an academic exercise for me.

That's my story. I'll be glad to read others' stories, if people are inclined to post them.

40 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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What percentage of atheists do you think were churchgoers until reaching some age? (Original Post) MineralMan Aug 2017 OP
Church attendance has been falling steadily from its peak in the 1950s Warpy Aug 2017 #1
I'd think a much higher percentage of the older generation as attendance has dropped off bettyellen Aug 2017 #2
I was an altar boy (unmolested!) SonofDonald Aug 2017 #3
Good question. Freelancer Aug 2017 #4
I guess your Sunday School teacher had no answer for that question. MineralMan Aug 2017 #7
You bet. Freelancer Aug 2017 #8
Either that or someone offers up some sort of apologetics MineralMan Aug 2017 #9
I've been very extremely stressed considering a dear heart and his family and associates sprinkleeninow Aug 2017 #37
Ex not even really a catholic. pamdb Aug 2017 #5
I like to tell people I was an altar boy...but only once! SwissTony Aug 2017 #6
Days of Holy Obligation Cartoonist Aug 2017 #17
Once I realized that the Catholic church I grew up in was nonsense... Binkie The Clown Aug 2017 #10
For me, death is just the end of my journey. MineralMan Aug 2017 #11
When you die your energy just changes into a different energy Angry Dragon Aug 2017 #20
Energy, as a general rule, changes to heat, and then dissipates. Binkie The Clown Aug 2017 #21
reincarnation does not guarantee you come back as a person Angry Dragon Aug 2017 #22
If this reality is a simulation... Binkie The Clown Aug 2017 #23
If we can choose the form of our reincarnation, The Velveteen Ocelot Aug 2017 #30
If reincarnation is a real thing, it makes sense that people don't remember The Velveteen Ocelot Aug 2017 #28
Agnostic nearing Atheisim Runningdawg Aug 2017 #12
I think most of us had church LakeArenal Aug 2017 #13
I never went to church. AtheistCrusader Aug 2017 #14
You wrote this: guillaumeb Aug 2017 #15
They are common human failings. MineralMan Aug 2017 #16
Go ahead. Everbody jump on me (my post). sprinkleeninow Aug 2017 #26
Because for some, any imperfections in believers are apparently seen as "proof" guillaumeb Aug 2017 #35
Is it, now? Act_of_Reparation Aug 2017 #39
You may have implied and it may have been inferred sprinkleeninow Aug 2017 #36
Don't know, but my gut says it's gotta be most of us. Iggo Aug 2017 #18
I'm the son of a rabbi DavidDvorkin Aug 2017 #19
I have been atheist since before I ever heard of atheism Orrex Aug 2017 #24
A sizable majority. Act_of_Reparation Aug 2017 #25
It might depend on whether the person was brought up in an oppressive The Velveteen Ocelot Aug 2017 #27
Personally, I don't really care what a person believes. MineralMan Aug 2017 #29
I became an atheist handmade34 Aug 2017 #31
Yes. I have met others who have the same thing to say. MineralMan Aug 2017 #32
most people handmade34 Aug 2017 #33
Yes, I'm sure of that, although most wouldn't make that public. MineralMan Aug 2017 #34
Oooh. no text. sprinkleeninow Aug 2017 #38
I think a pretty large portion of them DBPhenomenal Sep 2017 #40

Warpy

(111,261 posts)
1. Church attendance has been falling steadily from its peak in the 1950s
Tue Aug 22, 2017, 02:16 PM
Aug 2017

so I'd imagine the percentage varies a lot by age group.

I not only got dragged to church, I survived Catholic school. At ten, I was in full rebellion so I got sprung the next year. I realized it was hooey pretty early.

I went Emily Post on my parents, shutting down any discussion of sex, religion or politics. My parents despaired over my lack of religion, but they both died unbelievers, unafraid of judgment or hell. I had nothing to do with it, honest, they just came to that conclusion on their own.

I made my peace with believers a long time ago; flying without a net is not for everyone.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
2. I'd think a much higher percentage of the older generation as attendance has dropped off
Tue Aug 22, 2017, 02:17 PM
Aug 2017

But maybe that's more an urban/ suburban catholic thing. For most people I knew, they stopped going regularly once you could get away with it. My grade school kept track of the weekly envelops and by 4th grade I was dropping them off w alter boys I knew and going to hang w friends. I was an atheist starting in third grade.

Even the believers I knew did the minimum over the years they had to in order to get the sacraments they wanted- mostly marriage and baptism because of family tradition.

SonofDonald

(2,050 posts)
3. I was an altar boy (unmolested!)
Tue Aug 22, 2017, 02:28 PM
Aug 2017

For 6-7 years in a catholic church, the priest was one of the best people I've ever met in my life, he was an absolute kick in the rear.

Then after a few years they replaced him with a businessman/priest, he had no time for us boys other than critiquing us when we did something "wrong", it went from a fun place to go to a job, a job I could no longer care about.

He wanted to build and grow the church bigger, he was great at the glad handing smiling part he played but the magic was gone for us, I quit at age 13.

I had also realized that every sermon given had already been given before, it was like there was a list where you started at the top and when you got to the bottom a year later you started over again.

The message was missing in action for me and I walked away, I am an athiest now and have been for decades, I still treat others the way I was raised to and I find that a good thing that I was taught how we should treat each other.

I leave others beliefs to them, they can believe what they want and I don't say anything about, to each their own, unless they start putting their beliefs on me.

Then it's game on.

When I look up in the sky and see the wonder of our universe I realize the thought that some old white haired guy with a staff created all this is just laughable.

Freelancer

(2,107 posts)
4. Good question.
Tue Aug 22, 2017, 02:34 PM
Aug 2017

Atheist adjacent agnostic here – just to be clear for any future Pence-led inquisition.

I was 6. I got kicked out of Sunday School for asking too many questions about Noah's Ark. I asked: if the children of the animals on the Ark had to marry their own sisters and brothers, wasn't that just wrong? The teacher grabbed me by the armpit, led me outside, and sat me on a stump in front of the church to wait for my mom to come. I remember seeing all the other kids against the windows looking like they wished they could be on the stump with me.

I guess I'm still on that stump. As stumps go, it's very nice.

MineralMan

(146,308 posts)
7. I guess your Sunday School teacher had no answer for that question.
Tue Aug 22, 2017, 03:06 PM
Aug 2017

There were a lot of questions like that, like Lot and his daughters, for one example.

Freelancer

(2,107 posts)
8. You bet.
Tue Aug 22, 2017, 03:15 PM
Aug 2017

At some point, religion tells a person with an inquiring mind to "shut up." That's probably the tipping point for a lot of quasi believers.

MineralMan

(146,308 posts)
9. Either that or someone offers up some sort of apologetics
Tue Aug 22, 2017, 03:17 PM
Aug 2017

that is supposed to explain what is clearly stated. There are a number of those situations, for which the official church has an explanation that makes no sense whatsoever.

Asking "Why" is not a thing that is rewarded very much in most churches, particularly if you are not satisfied with the pablum fed you as an answer.

sprinkleeninow

(20,249 posts)
37. I've been very extremely stressed considering a dear heart and his family and associates
Tue Aug 29, 2017, 01:41 AM
Aug 2017

are most likely in dire straits in the Houston area.

I was prompted to squeeze in, this, another post.

Could you, would you please identify what 'church' is in the topic of discussion?

Thanks much,

~sprink 😊

pamdb

(1,332 posts)
5. Ex not even really a catholic.
Tue Aug 22, 2017, 02:34 PM
Aug 2017

I was raised a catholic,went to a catholic school through grade school and high school. I might have gotten a better education than some of the kids who went to local public schools, especially the high schools, but to me religion was just another subject. I never liked going to church, in fact it would not be too much to say I hated it. I was always trying to find ways to get out of it. Finally when I went to college I just stopped going and when I would be home my parents never said a word. Funny thing is my brother who is 8 years younger than me still goes to church. He was a alter boy and the woman he married is catholic so they still go.and their kids went. I think they still do. And my husband is the same as me, raised catholic, wants nothing to do with it. It's very liberating to get to the point when you can say, "I just don't care". Frankly, I really really dislike religion, any religion. Some more than most. I just have no need of it in my life. I'm 66 and a liberal democrat, sort of a tail end child of the '60's. my brother came up under Ronald Reagan and is a republican. Go figure.

SwissTony

(2,560 posts)
6. I like to tell people I was an altar boy...but only once!
Tue Aug 22, 2017, 03:02 PM
Aug 2017

I was raised as a Catholic. Went to church every Sunday and on days of holy obligation.

In my early teens (and probably before that), I started to have my doubts. Why are there Protestants? Why are there different kinds of Protestants?

I didn't know anything about Jews, Muslims, Hindus etc. Atheists. Nevva hoid of 'em.

My first ten years were spent in Scotland. Scotland had (and still has, I believe) Orange Marches. I could feel the hatred generated by these marches. But most of my friends were Protestants. How does that work out?

When I was ten, we moved to Australia. Religious divisions were a lot less important there.

At the age of 13, I had decided to leave the church. My cousin was an altar boy. On my last visit to the church, he came to me and said "The priest wants to talk to you". So, I went with him and the priest said to me "Ah, our new altar boy!" Oh, shucks. So, I donned the gear and became an altar boy. I had a pretty good idea of what to do having attended Mass all my life. But I stuffed one piece up. At a certain time we were supposed kneel and bow our heads to the floor three times, the first two times coming back up fairly quickly but the third time staying bowed for a longer time. I got the first two right, but started to come up for the third time. My cousin anticipated this and grabbed my arm and pulled me back down. So, we're both on our knees with our heads touching the floor and trying to suppress our giggles.

My wife and I have three daughters. We never took them to church. When they asked us questions about god, we'd give them the best answers we could but made it clear we don't believe in god. One of my daughters was invited to attend church by one of her friends. We said "Fine, but if you want to stop, tell them". She went twice, then stopped.

Binkie The Clown

(7,911 posts)
10. Once I realized that the Catholic church I grew up in was nonsense...
Tue Aug 22, 2017, 03:47 PM
Aug 2017

... I set out, in my late teens, on an earnest search for "truth". I was a Lutheran, Mormon, Unitarian, Theosophist, Wiccan, Mahayana Buddhist, Theravada Buddhist, and Taoist, not necessarily in that order, and not necessarily in a linear fashion. Then I noticed that the things that I found silly in one religion, were just as silly when viewed through the lens of a different religion.

Then I stopped searching and asked myself what, precisely, I was looking for.

It wasn't fulfillment, because I felt very fulfilled through my family, my career, and my hobbies and activities.

It wasn't serenity, comfort, or an antidote for fear, because I found those within myself after I learned to meditate.

What it came down to in the end was a fear of death, and what happens after death.

So finally, I realized that every minute I spend worrying about death is a minute I don't spend actually living, at which point I said to myself, to hell with it. I'll spend my time and energy on living, and if there's no heaven waiting for me, then I damn well better do everything I can to make my own heaven right here, right now, on Earth.

(And, for what it's worth, I still entertain the notion that there might be such a thing as reincarnation, in which case, I hope I come back as an atheist to begin with and save myself a lot of wasted time in soul searching. )

MineralMan

(146,308 posts)
11. For me, death is just the end of my journey.
Tue Aug 22, 2017, 03:56 PM
Aug 2017

It's a matter of no consequence, since I won't be around to mourn myself. Instead, it is what transpires during the journey that matters to me, and only that. Like most human beings, I am here for a few decades, and then I am not.

I never give a thought to what happens afterward. It will have nothing to do with me. Time as I experience it will end.

It's OK.

Angry Dragon

(36,693 posts)
20. When you die your energy just changes into a different energy
Sat Aug 26, 2017, 02:41 PM
Aug 2017

it stays in the universe just a different form
think of that as reincarnation

Binkie The Clown

(7,911 posts)
21. Energy, as a general rule, changes to heat, and then dissipates.
Sat Aug 26, 2017, 05:08 PM
Aug 2017

Yes, it stays in a different form, random Brownian motion from now until the heat death of the universe.

On the other hand, if this universe is a simulation (and some people thinks the odds favor that) then what happens "after death" could be rephrased as "what happens between rounds of the game?" Maybe we kick back and compare notes with our fellow gamers. Then, when we fire up a new round of game play (including temporarily blocking our own memory of the fact that it is a game) that would be "reincarnation".

Binkie The Clown

(7,911 posts)
23. If this reality is a simulation...
Sat Aug 26, 2017, 05:29 PM
Aug 2017

and we are all game-players in that simulation, then we play the game voluntarily, and can enter the game in any form we want to.

(For what it's worth, my earliest childhood memory is laying in the crib looking at my hands and thinking "How strange it is to be small again.&quot

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,693 posts)
28. If reincarnation is a real thing, it makes sense that people don't remember
Mon Aug 28, 2017, 12:26 PM
Aug 2017

past lives. If you did remember every single life and death, many of which were probably traumatic and awful, after a few reincarnations you'd be nothing but a miserable blob of PTSD.

Runningdawg

(4,516 posts)
12. Agnostic nearing Atheisim
Tue Aug 22, 2017, 04:13 PM
Aug 2017

My father was a Southern Baptist deacon. Religion was force-fed 24/7 and dominated every aspect of my life. School in a town of 400 was no escape, everyone there was just as religious. Even though I figured out early it was all BS, there wasn't much I could do other than play along if I ever wanted to be let out of the house again. Although I left the church on my 18th BD, I still struggle with the residual effects from indoctrination nearly 40 years later.

LakeArenal

(28,817 posts)
13. I think most of us had church
Tue Aug 22, 2017, 04:40 PM
Aug 2017

I spent every summer going to some bible school. I've been lots of christian.
Methodist, Episcopalian, Presbyterian, Lutheran and Evangelical Lutheran. Missed Presbalutheran, with the Simpsons.

Everyone of them gave mixed messages and everyone of them had different rules. It was very confusing to me as a kid.

Then, I realized that despite all the warnings about hell and damnation, I didn't believe any of it. It seemed silly. But I stayed in the atheist closet for a long long time.

I tell folks I do believe Jesus was real. I just don't believe in divinity. No holy ghosts, resurrections or heavens.

Heaven is right here on earth. Just look around. If you don't see it, mores the pity.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
14. I never went to church.
Tue Aug 22, 2017, 05:12 PM
Aug 2017

Catholic church refused to baptize my brother and I because our mom was Presbyterian and therefore 'we were all going to hell', so my dad told the priest he'd see HIM in hell someday, and walked out.

After that, neither parent cared much about religion, and thus impressed none of it on my brother and I.

I have therefore always been an atheist, and highly resistant to it. I read a lot of greek, norse, and roman mythology as a kid, and identified repeating patterns when I finally encountered Christianity.

I consider it now, in retrospect, inoculation against bad tribal ideas.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
15. You wrote this:
Tue Aug 22, 2017, 06:08 PM
Aug 2017
Other human behavior, such as hypocrisy, untruthfulness and intolerance among the religious people I encountered did nothing to encourage my continued attendance at church or its functions.


Did you automatically expect theists to behave better than non-theists? And do you ever encounter such behavior among non-theists?

MineralMan

(146,308 posts)
16. They are common human failings.
Tue Aug 22, 2017, 08:15 PM
Aug 2017

The church teaches against them, which seems to have little effect. So, I did not see any benefit from those teachings. My sentence said nothing about those faults being unique to churchgoers.

sprinkleeninow

(20,249 posts)
26. Go ahead. Everbody jump on me (my post).
Mon Aug 28, 2017, 12:20 PM
Aug 2017

To Mineral Man specifically,

Why cannot any beauty (perceived) of the Faith be kept separate from failings of imperfect human beings?

Not here to proselytize or even apologize. Just discuss according to my limitations. No debating. I yam not experienced in the methodology of debating.

🤗 sprink

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
35. Because for some, any imperfections in believers are apparently seen as "proof"
Mon Aug 28, 2017, 08:56 PM
Aug 2017

that the faith is partly to blame for the human imperfections.

sprinkleeninow

(20,249 posts)
36. You may have implied and it may have been inferred
Tue Aug 29, 2017, 01:30 AM
Aug 2017

that encounters w/ 'religious' people who displayed not nice 'human traits' behavior turned you off to 'church' teachings.

Sooo then, it was 'expected' (?) that these church going participants should not have exhibited this not nice behavior seeing Who and what they supposedly represented?

The 'church' teaches against common human failings?

~sprink 😊


DavidDvorkin

(19,477 posts)
19. I'm the son of a rabbi
Sat Aug 26, 2017, 12:29 PM
Aug 2017

So I was never a churchgoer. I was a synagogue goer, though, until I went away to college and didn't have to pretend any longer.

Orrex

(63,212 posts)
24. I have been atheist since before I ever heard of atheism
Mon Aug 28, 2017, 10:29 AM
Aug 2017

In my youth I attended church and Sunday school because my parents drove me there and put me in a room for that purpose.

I don't know that I ever actually "believed" in the stories, but I found them sort of vaguely comforting before I was old enough to engage the subject rationally. Thereafter, the whole concept made no sense to me, and I found no comfort in believing something for which there is no verifiable evidence. Frankly, it has become harder and harder for me to understand how it's even possible to draw comfort from such a leap of faith.

In my experience, theists often claim that atheists are simply reacting to some religion-based trauma, reducing a rational process to a reflexive knee-jerk. I'm sure that some people have that experience, but not me.

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
25. A sizable majority.
Mon Aug 28, 2017, 11:58 AM
Aug 2017

Though with the way the theists lecture us you'd think none of us had ever spent so much as an hour in church.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,693 posts)
27. It might depend on whether the person was brought up in an oppressive
Mon Aug 28, 2017, 12:21 PM
Aug 2017

or fanatical religion, or otherwise had unpleasant experiences. I know a few former Catholics who are pretty intense about their dislike of the Catholic church, though not all are atheists. My own upbringing was mainly in the pretty liberal United Church of Christ (the Congregational Church at that time), and I didn't find it offensive or particularly negative - just boring and irrelevant. Later on I became a fairly regular church-goer (ELCA Lutheran and Episcopalian) but only because I enjoyed singing in the choir, not because I really believed in what they were telling us. I would have to call myself an agnostic, since I can't disprove the existence of the Christian god, or any other god, any more than believers can prove it. As far as belief systems go I'm somewhat attracted to Buddhism, which doesn't have a deity.

I have never been offended by what I heard at these churches, which at least in recent years have been liberal and accepting, with no hellfire and damnation. The clergy I've dealt with were very kind and helpful when my parents passed away. I have no axe to grind with religion in general as long as it does not insinuate itself into legislation or other oppressive behavior (that's a big "if" these days, unfortunately). Yes, there is a lot of hypocrisy and assholery among religious people, but the biggest and most hypocritical asshole I know of (and if you don't know who I'm talking about, here's a hint: he's orange) is not religious at all. Religion doesn't make people bad unless they were bad in the first place; it just gives them the excuse that "God" wants them to do something they would have done anyhow.

A lot of the attraction of religious institutions seems to come from the social benefits - the sense of community they offer. And if a person's religious beliefs give them comfort, who am I to tell them they're being stupid or superstitious? It's all OK with me.

MineralMan

(146,308 posts)
29. Personally, I don't really care what a person believes.
Mon Aug 28, 2017, 12:29 PM
Aug 2017

It is behavior that concerns me. I'm not able to believe in any supernatural stuff at all, but others apparently can believe that stuff. I don't try to convince them otherwise.

My issues are with religion creeping into government and trying to insist that only one path is acceptable. That bothers me. A lot.

MineralMan

(146,308 posts)
32. Yes. I have met others who have the same thing to say.
Mon Aug 28, 2017, 01:31 PM
Aug 2017

I have even met working pastors who are atheists.

handmade34

(22,756 posts)
33. most people
Mon Aug 28, 2017, 01:48 PM
Aug 2017

I think, would be surprised at the number of pastors, ministers that are non-believers... for some it is more nefarious; wanting to exploit, but for many it is truly wanting to do good and working through the church can be a way to do it...

MineralMan

(146,308 posts)
34. Yes, I'm sure of that, although most wouldn't make that public.
Mon Aug 28, 2017, 02:01 PM
Aug 2017

For some, as well as your other examples, their career may have started with them as believers, but that belief may have gone away.

I once filled in for a Methodist minister friend of mine in a town not far from mine. He had been called away suddenly due to a death in the family, and called me to ask if I could handle the service. I'm familiar with Methodist services and he already had the bulletin with the order of service printed. I was glad to help him. Nobody would ever have known that I was an atheist. They didn't know that the pastor I replaced was, either. I got several compliments on the sermon, too. Where prayers were indicated, I asked others to lead them, which pleased those folks, as well.

DBPhenomenal

(5 posts)
40. I think a pretty large portion of them
Sat Sep 2, 2017, 06:56 PM
Sep 2017

I became agnostic/non religious when I was around 14-15. Most people who are atheist but were at one point religious, probably noticed something wasn't right as they got around the age I was. I can't say for sure whether there is a god or not, but I wouldn't just blindly follow something I wasn't sure was even true or not, especially if it takes control of my life.

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