Religion
Related: About this forumIs the perfect always the enemy of the good?
During the 2016 election, this question was asked of people who stated that they would never vote for Hillary Clinton because of her stance on an issue, (a particular issue does not matter), that the voter considered to be the most important issue to consider.
One argument that was made, and that I made, was to not allow the perfect to become the enemy of the good. And given that none of us is actually perfect, it is a good philosophy. In religious terms, Jesus spoke of removing the beam from your own eye before you remove the speck from your neighbor's eye.
In that vein, if a person holds a progressive position on many issues, are all of those good progressive positions to be ignored if the person also holds a non-progressive position on one or more progressive issues? Or is there a scale of progressive perfection, wherein a certain percentage of issues must be supported in order to claim the label of progressive?
And if there is such a scale of progressive perfection, are there issues that must be supported in order to qualify as a progressive?
MineralMan
(146,333 posts)How does Jesus's warning about hypocrisy apply?
This sounds remarkably like a political topic, rather than a religious one. Your example from Jesus doesn't seem to be related, since it is about hypocrisy, rather than the concept you're addressing.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)My point, buttressed with a religious citation, is that no one is perfect, and it is better to realize that when criticizing. Jesus point, in my view, was about self-examination, and the realization that we are not perfect.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)It's another to be bigoted against an entire group of people.
I am not willing to throw my LGBT allies under the bus in order to praise a church.
You evidently are.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)What I expected. Ad hominem attacks are generally a sure sign that the attacker is losing the debate.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)Veering off topic just to attack me. How embarrassing for you.
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)We should ignore all the hate they preach?
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)is asking for "perfection?" Interesting viewpoint.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Do you expect perfection in any individual or institution? If so, how often are you disappointed?
trotsky
(49,533 posts)Here it is again:
Is asking a group not to be bigoted asking for "perfection?"
Please answer the question that was asked, and not one that you made up for yourself.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)The question is ridiculous because there is no perfection in humans.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)No one is asking for perfection.
We're asking people not to be bigoted.
Evidently you think that is too much to ask.
Igel
(35,359 posts)For many, if a person is progressive (or reasonably so) in many areas but has one glaring flaw, he goes from a saint to an abject reprobate in a matter of seconds. The fall from grace is deafening in its suddenness and thoroughness.
So it is with, for example, (D) women who are progressive but are "pro-life" instead of "pro-choice." There's no way they can be "true Democrats" since they lack the One True Trait.
Of course, if they were pro-choice and failed to support LGBT issues appropriately, some would say they lack the One True Trait.
Or if they were not whole-heartedly in favor of the ACA--or, for some, single payer--they'd be seen lacking the One True Trait.
In other words, for some, you're in complete agreement and perfect or beyond the Pale. There's no compromise with our utter and glorious perfection. Sometimes it's almost as though some Christians deign to let Jesus sit at their right hand. I refer to such as having a pokejeez, just as a pokemon is a "pocket monster". If they fail to live up to their standards, well, they're just human; if others fail to live up to their standards, they're evil and corrupt from birth (and, yes, "their" is ambiguous--I've seen plenty of people condemned not for living up to their personal standards, but for failing to live up to another's personal standards or the standards another imputed to them.)
Which goes back to the necessary humility and tolerance for those who are imperfect referred to in the OP. If nobody's perfect, then an imperfect on one point merely means that you disagree on that one point--there are plenty of other places to find common ground and collaborate.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)Being diametrically opposed on the treatment of a group of people is another.
If someone wants to deny equal rights to a group, that's a problem.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)the very thing that Igel was discussing.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)Thanks for clarifying. Guess we know where your priorities lie.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)and I stand by my previous assessment.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)if the bigots are religious and are otherwise liberal/progressive in some way.
I also stand by my assessment.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)trotsky
(49,533 posts)Your surrender is noted.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)trotsky
(49,533 posts)I love your new "tactic." It lets me correct your errors, and then you give up and end the discussion. Much better than your old tactic of trying to change the subject and start a new thread when you're defeated.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Recommended.
Angry Dragon
(36,693 posts)It is better to drop the labels.
Better to address each issue on its merits
Who is going to do the best job of representing me??
Who comes up with these labels??
And Dragons are perfect
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)but anger is a sign, a small sign but a sign nevertheless, that perfection eludes the angry one.
Angry Dragon
(36,693 posts)could you explain that??
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Angry Dragon
(36,693 posts)guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Does this satisfy?
Angry Dragon
(36,693 posts)a much better answer from you
The only way to truly learn is to question.
Earlier you brought up the point of anger not part of perfect and I pointed out that god got angry and is said to be perfect so it would fit that anger was part of perfect
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)rape, violence, war, and many other things. One can also be sad that such things happen at all.
Angry Dragon
(36,693 posts)once again you skirt the god getting angry question
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)But lots of people aren't explicitly bigoted assholes.